ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Dec 7, 2010 11:12:14 GMT -5
Your bias is due to the fact that you focus on the Serbian propaganda only. If you look around, and read some independent material you'll find that what you write is BS.
And, your wife, without a doubt has contributed greatly to your moronic views on the Balkan Slavs.
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Post by ljubotan on Dec 7, 2010 20:48:15 GMT -5
Nikola,
I have said many times on this forum that Macedonians and other Slav ethnicities from there are the kindest in former Yugoslavia. My beef is with the name and also with the fact that the govt has allowed certain ethnicities walk all over her. I've been around many who've made fun of her and her citizens and it struck a nerve with me from the past. I had a Bosnian Serb priest here in Chicago for example, say how people from there are nice but weak to protect their dignity etc.
Pyrros,
I think I said everything in my earlier post. I've used the those regional Serbs in my examples to demonstrate their thoughts on us from MK. My personal bitterness is gone, and I'm not bashing any regional Serbs.
You asked for an example....the Macedonian diaspora from Detroit (whether identified as Serb or Macedonian), used to attend a Serbian Cathedral in the late 70's. Many of these Slavs built majority of the church; however, as the Serbians increased (mainly from Vojvodina) in the area they started making loud comments about why these Macedonians where attending their church and why couldn't they get their own. As a result, everyone left because they felt uncomfortable from the insults and instead bought their own church. People from my village (even the self identified Serbs), will always say if asked that they are very different from Serbians etc.; not better but because its noticeable in language etc. Serbian ethnicity in Mk is only 100yrs old and prior to that people just identified as Slav Orthodox. This is only one example of many many, and those 'many' are the reasons why I questioned Serbdom in my area (far before my marriage). I like proof and in this case the most important proof (language) is obviously not present.
The best solution here is to find texts written by the inhabitants of Macedonia that date from earlier centuries, then we'll have a clearier understanding if her language from the past belonged to Serbian or Bulgarian.
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Post by srbobran on Dec 7, 2010 22:02:23 GMT -5
So Ljubotan, do you now identify yourself as Macedonian? I know earlier you used to identify as a Serb.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 8, 2010 3:40:13 GMT -5
"You asked for an example....the Macedonian diaspora from Detroit (whether identified as Serb or Macedonian), used to attend a Serbian Cathedral in the late 70's." America? 70s? Dude the agents were working 24x7 to break your unity as Yugoslavs already from the beginning of the 70s. Inside YU and outside. You say America? Detroit? WTF? Go to the real places man!!!! Go to BiH, go to Serbia, feel the soul!
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Kralj Vatra
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Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 8, 2010 3:43:37 GMT -5
Your bias is due to the fact that you focus on the Serbian propaganda only. If you look around, and read some independent material you'll find that what you write is BS. And, your wife, without a doubt has contributed greatly to your moronic views on the Balkan Slavs. No Asenie! Wife always feels depressed as a Serb and humiliated and cannot voice loud proud nationalistic views. That's the effect of 20 constant years of terror against Yugoslavia-Serbia-BiH. Also, what you say about supposedly Serb propaganda, is totally idiotic, since Serbs cannot afford, financially, ethically and psychologically to design and launch any form of propaganda. It is clear that the Serbian elite has not formed a clear plan of action for the short-mid-long term future. So, what you say is biased BS out of your sodomized ass hole, bi tch. You just cannot stand, independent people, searching and telling the truth. You and Jovana have proven here that truth is the worse enemy of the Bolgar. But, to ease your pain a little bit, i must admit that the same spirit lies behind any manufactured nation in the region (Magyars, Romanians, Greeks, Albs). USA, this great superpower, would not waste its bullets if not to fight the biggest force in the region. Reasonable. Every empire would do the same.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Dec 8, 2010 8:25:51 GMT -5
The velikoserbian propaganda, Gyrro, is centuries old. It was implemented for years and now all Balkan nations suffer its consequences: Bulgarians, Greeks, Macedonians, even Serbs, because if they didnt use their resources to serbanize Bulgarian population, they could ve concentrated on Bosnia or Montenegro and maybe today most real Serbian lands would ve been in one state.
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Kralj Vatra
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Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 8, 2010 8:50:04 GMT -5
You mean you didn't try to bulgarize Serbian population in Makedonia? Then why the fuck do those guys hate your guts?
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Dec 8, 2010 10:24:42 GMT -5
because of velikoserbian propaganda. have you read Macedonian "history"? Those falsification were written in Belgrade. If you for example read all the wikipages in all languages about Samuels kingdome you ll see that in all of them the kingdome is called Bulgarian. Only in Serbian and Macedonian wikipages its called "Samuel kingdome", and the two "oppinions" of the kingdome being Bulgarian (accepted by all nations) and being Macedonian (accepted by Macedonia only and suppored by Serbia). One wonders why only the historians of 2 nations read the sources "differently" from all the world. The answer: manipulation.
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Post by terroreign on Dec 15, 2010 1:37:55 GMT -5
Gyrro, don't pretend you're confused. You know it's exactly like that. You have a strong pro-Serbian, and pro-Serbian only, bias. The BS you post is not supported by the international community. In fact, the vast majority of independent sources directly contradict your views. When you say the "international community" you mean the US and EU, the same liars that staged a refugee camp in bosnia as a death-camp to feed the American/European public the idea of Serbs as evil-doers. You use "velikoserbian" as a crutch. And the Fryromacedonian history was written in Skoplje by your so-called Bulgarian brothers, not Belgrade. Serbia had nothing to do with the communist creation, nor was it in their interests. It was your own people who sold you out.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Dec 15, 2010 2:25:58 GMT -5
Come on Krivo! You know that the Bulgarians in Macedonia had no choice but to become Macedonians and that was supported by Belgrade and Ugoslavia. If they wanted to sucseed in Yugoslavia they had to turn into macedonian... Anyone who was antiyugo was automatically refered to as probulgarian... thats why yugo suppored macedonism which in its core is antibulgarian... Execpt that watch the wikipedia pages on Samuel. ONLY in the Macedonia and Serbian ones we see the "alternative" that Samuel was not Bulgarian, but Macedonian!!!
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Post by terroreign on Dec 15, 2010 3:42:41 GMT -5
Ioan, the Macedonians (Bulgars) from what's clear from the national awakening's in the early 20th century, didn't want, or didn't think it possible, for a united Macedonia with Bulgaria.
The Bulgar-Macedonians were the biggest Bulgar-Macedonists there were, and were much more dangerous and harsh than anyone else in the former Yugoslavia when it came to brainwashing.
Check out the movie "Golemata voda" to see what I'm talking about.
Here are the names of the committee that standardized the Fyrom alphabet in 1944:
Vasil Iljoski, Hristo Zografov, Krum Tošev, Dare Džambaz, Venko Markovski, Mirko Pavlovski, Mihail Petruševski, Risto Prodanov, Georgi Kiselinov, Georgi Šoptrajanov, Jovan Kostovski.
You can come up w/ your own conclusions.
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on Dec 15, 2010 4:11:17 GMT -5
Ioan, the Macedonians (Bulgars) from what's clear from the national awakening's in the early 20th century, didn't want, or didn't think it possible, for a united Macedonia with Bulgaria. thats the right thing. in the end most of them preffered autonomous macedonia (with dominating bulgarian element) instead of seeing macedonia divided. yes they were because they wanted political feature in yugoslavia. they had to be anything else, but bulgarians.
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ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Dec 15, 2010 11:51:28 GMT -5
The only reason why Macedonian freedom fighters started fighting for an independent Macedonia was that in 1878 they saw that the west wouldn't approve of a united Bulgaria. After San Stefano Bulgaria was dismantled on the order of Britain/France.. all Macedono-Bulgarians started fighting for an independent state with the assumption that it will one day in the future become a part of a union with Bulgaria or that it will become a part of some sort of Balkan Federation. I guess, if Macedonia becomes a EU member, that would technically fulfill their goal.. though about 100 years late.
And yes, it wasn't easy being a Bulgarian in Macedonia when it was ruled by Serbs and Greeks. Hell, it's not easy being a Bulgarian in Macedonia today.. their government is still influence by a heavy pro Serb bias from the past.
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