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Post by Moe Lester on Nov 16, 2011 2:32:14 GMT -5
^"Ugly name BuLgarska"?
That's a bit harsh there, Novi.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 16, 2011 3:32:48 GMT -5
^ non indo-european name. According to Ivo, the Bulgars ARE the forefathers of all Aryan speaking peoples.
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Post by Moe Lester on Nov 16, 2011 3:37:35 GMT -5
But calling it ugly is a bit harsh, and un called for.
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Post by srbobran on Nov 16, 2011 14:52:04 GMT -5
Belgium gained Congo through a bunch of treaties and they ended up FVCKING it royally. As for the Dutch, I do have a lot of respect for them. They were excellent merchants and build a strong empire on that basis. Then again, they didn't have the Ottoman Turks did they? They were surrounded by progressive European nations. If Serbia had been ruled by Austria instead of the Ottomans we would be light years ahead of where we are now.
Don't get me wrong, the Ottomans were great until the mid to end 16th century when the empire began losing wars, the economy be antiquated, and religious fundamentalism took hold of the government. Then it just became another peasant backwater.
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Post by derk on Nov 16, 2011 14:56:45 GMT -5
^Srborban, you have just regained my respect. For two things: One is that you were rather civil and polite, something that is lacking in some serbian members these days... Secondly, you are spot-on right. Belgium was not such a good example, I agree and I am both glad we agree on Holland. As for your ottoman empire reference; I think it was mostly accurate but I also want to add that political situation in the world also affected the Ottoman policy in the balkans. And I don't agree with 16th century as the change of Ottoman policy. It was much later, around the start of the 19th century, after Napoleonic Wars in Europe although after 1699, Ottomans became slightly more aggressive towards serbians. But the turning date of the policy change was the beginning of 19th century.
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Sokol
Senior Moderator
Македонецот
Posts: 653
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Post by Sokol on Nov 16, 2011 17:38:19 GMT -5
"Yes, Novi keeps re-hashing these age-old serbian fairy tales that were used in the 18th and 19th century by the serbian academy of arts and sciences. Macedonia was lost to Serbia in 1941, and lost to Bulgaria in 1945...both states need to move on..." Chento, are you so deluded? Look again below and READ this source, its your own Vardarian information: Turski dokumenti za istorijata na makedonskiot narod, Skopje, 1971, str 143 It CLEARLY states that Vardarians were NAMING their male children according to their nation (Serbia) and not Macedonia or that ugly name Bu Lgarska. I'm not denying the names Srbin exist in Macedonia. I'm sure many Serbs named their kids this. The Serbian minority in Macedonia is a reality. I also, don't deny that some Macedonians names their kids Srbin aswell, just like today there are many Macedonians naming their kids with English names, and during SFRJ, there were many kinds named 'Yugoslav' in Macedonia. This does not prove anything regarding the ethnicity of a people. By your logic, the Bosniaks are not Slav at all, but Turk and Arab??
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ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Nov 16, 2011 19:13:11 GMT -5
Lies. I've never claimed anything of the sort.
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Post by missanthropology58 on Nov 16, 2011 19:19:30 GMT -5
If it wasn't for westerners Serbs would be telling us they're the descendants Alexander the Great. No, they have plenty of History much better than Alex, Napoleon, Gengis Khan and other such warmongers. Oh please, you can't believe that the Khans were epic and the Persians attacked the Greeks first and even burnt down Thrace AND Macedonia during the Greco-Persian wars.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 17, 2011 0:14:54 GMT -5
"I'm not denying the names Srbin exist in Macedonia. I'm sure many Serbs named their kids this. The Serbian minority in Macedonia is a reality. I also, don't deny that some Macedonians names their kids Srbin aswell, just like today there are many Macedonians naming their kids with English names, and during SFRJ, there were many kinds named 'Yugoslav' in Macedonia. This does not prove anything regarding the ethnicity of a people. By your logic, the Bosniaks are not Slav at all, but Turk and Arab??" Please Chento, now your being childish. Bu Lgarski and your line of thinking will tell the world that Serbs were only present in the North-West region or when my FACTS are presented then they are a lightly scattered minority throughout Vardar which is actually contrary. Again, the naming of male children Srbin happened AT ZERO SERBIAN INFLUENCE, BEFORE 1872 DURING THE OTTOMAN PERIOD. PS The decendants of Srbin have surnames *SrbinovSKI*
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 17, 2011 0:18:00 GMT -5
GOOD BOY DERK, I'M PLEASE TO SEE AT LEAST 1% EFFORT BY YOU.
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Sokol
Senior Moderator
Македонецот
Posts: 653
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Post by Sokol on Nov 17, 2011 0:38:29 GMT -5
"I'm not denying the names Srbin exist in Macedonia. I'm sure many Serbs named their kids this. The Serbian minority in Macedonia is a reality. I also, don't deny that some Macedonians names their kids Srbin aswell, just like today there are many Macedonians naming their kids with English names, and during SFRJ, there were many kinds named 'Yugoslav' in Macedonia. This does not prove anything regarding the ethnicity of a people. By your logic, the Bosniaks are not Slav at all, but Turk and Arab??" Please Chento, now your being childish. Bu Lgarski and your line of thinking will tell the world that Serbs were only present in the North-West region or when my FACTS are presented then they are a lightly scattered minority throughout Vardar which is actually contrary. Again, the naming of male children Srbin happened AT ZERO SERBIAN INFLUENCE, BEFORE 1872 DURING THE OTTOMAN PERIOD. Serbian propaganda was always less successfull in Macedonia, then Greek or Bulgarian; wallaby.vu.edu.au/adt-VVUT/uploads/approved/adt-VVUT20060426.160820/public/06ch5.pdfEven with funding and support from Serbia, Serbian schools were small in number and mainly concentrated in the north-west of Macedonia.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 17, 2011 0:45:43 GMT -5
^ with zero serbian influence the name SRBIN was given to male children. With the extreme BuLgarski propaganda, male children weren't named BuLgarin at all.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 17, 2011 1:19:15 GMT -5
^ Chento, the Vardarian source is even backed by the WEST:
"It is understandable that the Turks preferred the patient and submissive Bulgar to the rebellious Serb or Greek. Since the Serbian principality had gained its freedom, the Turks regarded every Serb who declared himself to be such as a rebellious conspirator against the Turkish regime. This circumstance was widely exploited by the Bulgars in order to spread their propaganda among the Serbs outside the principality. Whoever was reluctant to become a Bulgar and persisted in calling himself a Serb was denounced to the Turks as conspiring with Serbia, and could expect severe punishment. Serbian priests were maltreated; permission was refused to open Serbian schools and those that were already in existence were closed; Serbian monasteries were destroyed. In order to avoid persecution, the population renounced its nationality and called itself Bulgarian........during the last thirty or forty years, propaganda has been rife in which the Bulgars have encouraged the Turks to act against Serbs and Greeks. Hence, throughout Macedonia, Thrace and Dardania, Slavs are considered to be Bulgars, which is quite incorrect. On the contrary, the Slavs in Macedonia are incapable of understanding a Bulgar from Jantra. If it is desired to designate these Slavs correctly, than they must be considered as Serbs, for the Serbian name is so popular among them that for example male children are sometimes christened "Srbin" [Serb]. the Serbian hero of the folk poems, Marko Kraljevich is obviously the Serbian ruler in Macedonia."
Alexander von Heksch "Die Donau von ihrem Ursprung bis an die Mundung",Leipzig,1885,pp.636
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Post by derk on Nov 17, 2011 6:40:20 GMT -5
GOOD BOY DERK, I'M PLEASE TO SEE AT LEAST 1% EFFORT BY YOU. too bad that I would never respect you...
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ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Nov 17, 2011 14:44:26 GMT -5
I have not read this book. However, I know that this quote comes from a Serbian propaganda site which has a list of quotes that attempt to prove that Macedonia is "Southern Serbia" and that the locals are "Southern Serbs".
I can't speak for this quote in particular, but the place where Pazar obtained this is filled with misconstrued information.
Pazar, would you be so kind as to post some more quotes from this book?
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Post by terroreign on Nov 17, 2011 14:46:55 GMT -5
GOOD BOY DERK, I'M PLEASE TO SEE AT LEAST 1% EFFORT BY YOU. too bad that I would never respect you... you resistantly yielded to his power over you, like a good runt.
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Post by derk on Nov 17, 2011 14:51:54 GMT -5
^From where do you did get that? Oh sorry I forgot how delusional you were...
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Post by terroreign on Nov 17, 2011 14:55:58 GMT -5
you made your first step as a contributing member of the forums, making a post with substance pertaining to the topic (see: reply #44), though you need to work on your writing's organizational structure.
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Post by derk on Nov 17, 2011 17:18:19 GMT -5
you made your first step as a contributing member of the forums, making a post with substance pertaining to the topic (see: reply #44), though you need to work on your writing's organizational structure. He said correct and honest things... I am still sure srb hates me and I still have unfriendly feelings for him but he has earned my respect by being honest and polite about a subject. The only other serb poster here who has earned my respect is Ulf. I see that you have become Jealous tho. Work hard and you may earn it one day too (probably not tho).
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 17, 2011 21:24:55 GMT -5
^ final warning Derk, don't start sliding back, l have the option of the delete button.
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