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Post by Moe Lester on Dec 1, 2011 23:04:47 GMT -5
And I'm not going to repeat the definition of suicide. Read up on his death.
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Post by uz on Dec 1, 2011 23:22:02 GMT -5
Then what did he do? Murder himself? He drank poison on his own accord, and by that definition he committed suicide. Why are you arguing about this? Socrates, by definition, committed suicide. There is no false claim there, he didn't 'sacrifice' himself. What was he sacrificing himself for? He was sacrificing himself to the cause he believed in. The same as a samurai would do the same under certain circumstances. There is a huge difference. Expect for Socrates he was dead regardless what he chose to do, unlike the samurai who could potentially run. I understand your relating this `sacrifice` to suicide, but this correlation did not exist back then.
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Post by Anittas on Dec 2, 2011 0:03:23 GMT -5
Socrates didn't kill himself, he got a death penalty and drank the poison called Conion. To say that Socrates committed a suicide it is like saying that Christ self-crucified. Ancient Greeks considered suicide as a cowardice act. No people in the ancient era considered suicide as a "cowardice act". If you don't know what you're talking about, maybe you should shut your mouth!
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Post by Anittas on Dec 2, 2011 0:05:17 GMT -5
He committed suicide, he was a criminal in the eyes of the judge, so being a cowardly act; it was a just punishment for a criminal (according to them). That does not classify as suicide. He did not willingly want himself to die. It is like if someone points a gun at someone else and forces that someone to shoot-themselves (with their own gun). It does "classify" as suicide, even if he didn't want to die. Many people, then and now, who commit suicide would rather live if circumstances were more favorable to them.
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Post by Anittas on Dec 2, 2011 0:07:20 GMT -5
You are not understanding. From our perspective today we cannot be compared to the perspectives of that age. The samurai killing himself was not looked up that way, but rather a sacrifice. No one was suggesting that any comparison should be made. But Socrates committed suicide, so what don't you understand?
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Post by Anittas on Dec 2, 2011 0:07:33 GMT -5
Guys stop flooding the Greek Forum. Shut your F mouth!
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Post by Anittas on Dec 2, 2011 0:09:56 GMT -5
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Post by uz on Dec 2, 2011 0:12:19 GMT -5
It was a self sacrifice. Apparently it was recorded that he could have gotten away, but he agreed religiously with whatever the decision would be for his fate.
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Post by Anittas on Dec 2, 2011 0:25:10 GMT -5
It was a self sacrifice. Apparently it was recorded that he could have gotten away, but he agreed religiously with whatever the decision would be for his fate. Sure. Who said that committing suicide could not be deemed as an act of "self-sacrifice"? But it was suicide nonetheless, even though it was a forced one. Here's a fragment from the dialogue between Socrates and one of his discplines prior to Socrates committing suicide. And here's the explanation: Source: oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=766&chapter=93700&layout=html&Itemid=27
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Post by fishcake on Dec 2, 2011 11:16:21 GMT -5
Socrates didn't kill himself, he got a death penalty and drank the poison called Conion. To say that Socrates committed a suicide it is like saying that Christ self-crucified. Ancient Greeks considered suicide as a cowardice act. How is it cowardice? By nature everyone fears death so it's courageous not cowardice.
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Post by fishcake on Dec 2, 2011 11:18:08 GMT -5
He could have been forced, or choose to take the poison. He chose to take the poison on his own accord. He believed that if the Athenian court found him guilty, he was guilty. He believed in following the laws of the land he was in, whether he thought the laws for just or not. He willingly took the poison. This is what I read about him too that he didn't have to take the poision and that there were some who were against his death, provided he existed at all because he didn't leave behind any writings and could have been a figment of Plato's imagination lol.
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 2, 2011 16:51:31 GMT -5
This wiki link should have been clear enough; Forced_suicide <----- Notice it says forced suicide ? So he was forced & was not by his own wishes to commit suicide. So conclusion NO he didnt he was forced to by a judge.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Dec 2, 2011 17:44:21 GMT -5
Archilea, please don't bring facts into this thread..
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 2, 2011 17:47:41 GMT -5
^^^ hahaha ok. Dont know what came over me, guess i got carried away
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Post by missanthropology58 on Dec 2, 2011 18:43:54 GMT -5
No, you managed to read a book.
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Post by Anittas on Dec 2, 2011 23:54:28 GMT -5
This wiki link should have been clear enough; Forced_suicide <----- Notice it says forced suicide ? So he was forced & was not by his own wishes to commit suicide. So conclusion NO he didnt he was forced to by a judge. Yes, I noticed it said forced, which is the very reason I posted it in the first place. His suicide counts as an execution, sure, but it was a suicide nonetheless. If you had taken the time to read the dialogue between Socrates and one of his disciplines, you would've seen that Socrates himself referred to it as suicide. As did many other prominent people of antiquity. One such example is Seneca, who failed to commit suicide and who needed 'assistance' to complete the task.
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Post by Anittas on Dec 2, 2011 23:55:34 GMT -5
Archilea, please don't bring facts into this thread.. He posted no fact. He reposted something that I had posted and then shared his personal interpretation, which is incorrect.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Dec 3, 2011 0:24:33 GMT -5
He said Forced suicide... thats all we need to know the rest is clam chowder...
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Post by Anittas on Dec 3, 2011 0:42:51 GMT -5
He said Forced suicide... thats all we need to know the rest is clam chowder... No, I mentioned "forced suicide" to describe a suicide that was forced. He brought up what I said and tried to give a different interpretation of the term.
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Hellenas
Amicus
Father of Gods and of men.
Posts: 578
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Post by Hellenas on Dec 3, 2011 8:03:23 GMT -5
No people in the ancient era considered suicide as a "cowardice act". If you don't know what you're talking about, maybe you should shut your mouth! Do me a favour you TRASH and never post anything again to me. Ai sto diaolo...
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