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Post by groet on May 16, 2012 13:44:27 GMT -5
"More important, this puts us above anyone who would want to slander us, that includes you and Novi Pazar." Its not slander its actual truth. Besides, your darling, Madeline Albrights family was saved by Serbs, only to come back later and have a hand in bombing the crap out of the country that saved her life. Groet, Albania was occupied by fascist Italy, the Italians believed that the killing of Jews was a German disease, why do you think Jews FLED to Italian occupied areas Misrepresented truth at best. I do not deny that Albanians were involved in the Handzar division, just that this or the Skanderbeg division is hardly what you try to make it be. Madeline Albright's family had lived in England during WW2 and in Czechoslovakia before that. They fled when Germany took control over Czechoslovakia. Her family was not rescued. Yes, Italians were not fervent about killing Jews and other groups of people. However, Jews were still not safe in Italian occupied lands, which is why Albania is the only country under Axis occupation to have had a larger Jewish population after the war. If it had merely been that Italy did not kill Jews, then Albania would not have been the only country with that record in Europe. Italy itself did not manage that, so much for being a place of refuge for Jews.
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rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
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Post by rex362 on May 16, 2012 16:44:56 GMT -5
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rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
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Post by rex362 on May 16, 2012 16:52:56 GMT -5
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Post by vinjak on May 16, 2012 18:05:12 GMT -5
Oh, right. He wasn't a bad guy, he just targeted specific types of people for extermination so that he could preserve his own people! How noble!.. Oh well, he had his heart in the right place.
There really is no need to be a wize azz it was not about being a "nice guy" he was a complete boot licker but in his mind he was trying to save Serbs he saw that serbia was completly surrounded and occupied by enemys and by fighting the Nazis brought massacres of women and children, and indeed many masacres had been orchestrated by the Nazis Serbian children where dragged out of schools and executed because of Mihaljovic's attacks on Germans. By rounding up Jews for deportation he thought he was earning points with the Nazis of course I abhor his actions completly and I do consider him a traitor but i can recognize his actions and thought process however wrong and simplistic it was.
94% of the Jews in Serbia were killed due to Serbs. Belgrade was the first "Judenfrei" capital in Europe. Serbs were the worst collaborators of the Nazis and they were only beaten by their own masters.
Yes they where rounded up and handed to the Nazis on orders by the Nedic Gov and yes the puppet Gov and its supporters were beaten constantly by there masters, but they where hardly the worst as you put it. That is your own conclusion because of your own bias.
Since this thread is about Albanians and their treatment of Jews in WW2 (and the appraisal for that ever since), I will talk about just that.
Yep you are correct I did stray and included other Victims and scenarios but it was a complex war with civil wars and it was a time for survival, people where split, factions and loyaltys where many, and to tell any story of what happened in the Balkans the whole picture must be looked at.
Rex, It becomes tiresome explaining all the time to what seems simple minds. I dont know how many times it needs to be explained, yes some Cetniks collaborated completly with the Nazis, others collaborated at times to achieve a goal, there where many Cetnik groups and not all where loyal to Mihaljovic there also where many rogue units running around calling themselves Cetniks as well, and yes at times even Partizans collaborated to achieve an outcome...that was Jug at the time and that is why i guess simpletons have a hard time with grey areas, its easier to have only black and white.
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Post by Novi Pazar on May 16, 2012 23:38:18 GMT -5
"Including Naples and Sicily."
Bowandarrow, that is right.
The Albanians here will crap on how they SAVED the Jews, first of all there wasn't many Jews inhabiting Albania to begin with (approx 33 familes?) and secondly, Albanians will hide the truth that Kosovo Albanian muslims were key political LEADERS of Albania. Both Kosovo and Albania were under the control and authority of the same people. Bowandarrow l'm talking about the period of 1941 to 1944, Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini created a Greater Albania that was made up of Kosovo and Western Macedonia. Kosovo was regarded as the “New Albania” and “the annexed territories”, but Kosovo was part of Hitler’s Greater Albania nonetheless.
I will be waiting for Albanian stories
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atdhetar
Amicus
tonight we dine in hell!
Posts: 3,124
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Post by atdhetar on May 17, 2012 15:47:59 GMT -5
novi, you are the most misguided person i've ever met, history and the truth goes one way while you are walking in the opposite direction
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Post by Novi Pazar on May 18, 2012 20:19:02 GMT -5
^ So is Raul Hilberg the same too when he tells us that SS-Scanderbeg played a MAJOR role in the Holocaust by rounding up the Jews in Greater Albania who were subsequently sent to Bergen-Belsen where they were killed?
Now, as many of you Albanians don't even know, General Futzstun who was the Higher SS and Police Leader (Hoherer SS und Polizeifuehrer, HSSPF) IN ALBANIA. Fitzhum was responsible for internal security, the war against the resistance or guerrillas, and the implementation of the Final Solution. He assumed control in Albania after German forces occupied Albania following the surrender of Italy in September, 1943. He had been the police chief in Vienna from 1938 to 1940. Fitzhum created the 21st SS Division Skanderbeg with XHAFER DEVA, made up mostly of Kosovar Muslim Albanians.
Let me tell you something, even the Italians rescued Serbs from genocidal attacks from Ustase groups, Bosnian muslims and even Kosovan Albanians.
Finally, Albania was part of the route to then Palestine, containing several ports. Jewish refugees passed through Albania because it was on the way to Palestine, not because of an Albanian desire to “rescue” Jews, understand?
PS I want you to do some RESEARCH on these criminals:
-Gjon Marka -Fikri Dine -Rexhep Mitrovica -Nazir Hodic -Xhafer Deva -Midhat Fresheri -Bedri Pejani (whom he met the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem *Haj Amin el Husseini*)
You've got lots to learn, its OVAH!
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Post by groet on May 19, 2012 6:27:17 GMT -5
There really is no need to be a wize azz it was not about being a "nice guy" he was a complete boot licker but in his mind he was trying to save Serbs he saw that serbia was completly surrounded and occupied by enemys and by fighting the Nazis brought massacres of women and children, and indeed many masacres had been orchestrated by the Nazis Serbian children where dragged out of schools and executed because of Mihaljovic's attacks on Germans. By rounding up Jews for deportation he thought he was earning points with the Nazis of course I abhor his actions completly and I do consider him a traitor but i can recognize his actions and thought process however wrong and simplistic it was. The Germans were indeed cruel. Look, it's not that I blame Serbs as a people. However, the collaborationist Nedic government clearly did a lot of damage. I don't think I need to differentiate between the two, just as I would refer to the Germans and not "the German government". I will also use this fact when there is any attempt to stain our record. Our collaborationist government had a clear policy of protecting Jews, even though it was under Axis occupation. Jewish refugees were granted Albanian citizenship immediately and were given new identities to hide them. The common folk took the Jews under their protection. In terms of % of Jews killed, Serbia was by far the worst. But I will give you the benefit of doubt, there are other factors to consider as well.
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Post by Novi Pazar on May 19, 2012 21:00:24 GMT -5
^ at the end of the day, your people had a SS division while we didn't. This division was meant to be genocidal, understand?
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atdhetar
Amicus
tonight we dine in hell!
Posts: 3,124
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Post by atdhetar on May 20, 2012 6:09:58 GMT -5
wow, novi you are really dumb my friend, you are seriously mentally challenged
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Post by groet on May 20, 2012 6:50:49 GMT -5
^ at the end of the day, your people had a SS division while we didn't. This division was meant to be genocidal, understand? We did have a SS division, a total failure of a SS division which never became very active and never did much harm from all that we know. We managed to protect our Jews through a conscious policy to do so, you guys managed to eradicate 94% of the total Jewish population through a conscious policy to do just that, eradicate the Jewish population. Can you refrain from posting so that some of your more clever compatriots can speak in your place?
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Post by Novi Pazar on May 21, 2012 21:38:27 GMT -5
^ truth is starting to sting your backside ;D
We did have a SS division, a total failure of a SS division which never became very active and never did much harm from all that we know. We managed to protect our Jews through a conscious policy to do so, you guys managed to eradicate 94% of the total Jewish population through a conscious policy to do just that, eradicate the Jewish population.
Sure Groet, who will believe your little BS above, uneducated hacks? I know exactly what the Albanian role was in the Holocaust, none of you Albanians will ever prove me wrong. If you push me further, l will reveal further!
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atdhetar
Amicus
tonight we dine in hell!
Posts: 3,124
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Post by atdhetar on May 22, 2012 3:48:29 GMT -5
CRETIN!
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Post by groet on May 22, 2012 10:09:22 GMT -5
Sure Groet, who will believe your little BS above, uneducated hacks? I know exactly what the Albanian role was in the Holocaust, none of you Albanians will ever prove me wrong. If you push me further, l will reveal further! You of all people shouldn't call others uneducated. The SS Skanderbeg division was pretty much a failure. It only lasted for a few months, while during its time it had been largely unactive and it was deemed a fiasco by the Germans themselves. The Albanians in this division mostly acted on their own accord doing what they pleased. You have set yourself to a standpoint where you will not believe anything that goes against your preordinated beliefs. That doesn't bode well for any discussion. That nothing can convince you is therefore only your own choice of only accepting what furthers your own motives. Serbs were far worse than the Albanians in WW2, they killed a lot more Jews (both in total numbers and in percentages). In times where almost all groups of people are at fault (partial at least) for participating in the Holocaust, Albanians were one of the few who didn't do so. /Push. Now, reveal further!
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Post by Duke John on May 22, 2012 16:14:26 GMT -5
Yes Novi we did have SS Skanderbeg, the damage they made is insignificant, but in Balkans we have the Serbs, the damage they did is Europe's worst atrocity since WWII!.
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Post by Duke John on May 22, 2012 16:42:45 GMT -5
It is unbelieveble that a guy who is 37 this year comes with some crap like "Really", did you click the link? Albanians were honored for their role as "Righteous Among the Nations" at the annual Yom Hashoah Commemoration on Sunday at the Arden Heights Boulevard Jewish Center. Do you really imagine that Jews honored the Albanians blindly just like that? The Jews have very good information based on facts and real life experience of ww2 era, they know very well who did what to them.
You have some very low posts.
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atdhetar
Amicus
tonight we dine in hell!
Posts: 3,124
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Post by atdhetar on May 22, 2012 16:55:53 GMT -5
37? ?? nah he can't be 37
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Post by Shqipni13 on May 22, 2012 19:01:27 GMT -5
A lonely 37 year old. I'm willing to bet on that.
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atdhetar
Amicus
tonight we dine in hell!
Posts: 3,124
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Post by atdhetar on May 23, 2012 12:18:55 GMT -5
he's got the thinking ability of a pubescent boy
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Post by Novi Pazar on May 25, 2012 21:23:29 GMT -5
Lets give you Albanians alittle peep into the Albanian hand of the HOLOCAUST: In the holocaust chronicle they mention between 10 to 12 Jews from Albania were sent to Bergen-Belsen to be EXTERMINATED! US documents state only 200 Jews are inhabiting Albania, so do the math, 12/200 x 100/1% = 6 percent of Albanian jews from only Albania proper were exterminated. Read from: www.holocaustchronicle.org/HolocaustAppendices.htmlAlso from the chronicle it says the following: Includes Jews from Bosnia, Croatia, Rab, and Serbia. Most Jews in the Italian Zone of Occupation were not deported or released to the Nazi or Ustasa.What have l been telling you guys? Do you want me to reveal more because this 37 year old man with 3 children can do so.
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