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Post by diurpaneus on Nov 29, 2007 8:52:44 GMT -5
A documentary about the Romanians from SerbiaThey are the first romanised thracians, the first romanians that appeared in history. Hear what they say there about serbs wanting to destroy the ONLY Romanian church from the Timoc valley.
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Post by superman on Nov 29, 2007 10:38:21 GMT -5
very nice Diur!
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Post by radovic on Nov 29, 2007 12:27:47 GMT -5
A documentary about the Romanians from SerbiaThey are the first romanised thracians, the first romanians that appeared in history. Hear what they say there about serbs wanting to destroy the ONLY Romanian church from the Timoc valley. Because under orthodox canon law their church can not be built on areas under the authority of the Serbian Orthodox Church. The Serbian Church did not object to the churches construction but the group did not apply to register the chuirch ever since in Serbia all religous property/land must be registered.
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Post by Kefalus on Nov 29, 2007 12:57:42 GMT -5
Foarte interesant reportajul. Desi nu au scoli vorbesc destul de bine. Am inteles ca o sa mai fie reportaje, asta din ce data e? sau cand a fost la tv? Diurpaneus daca mai gasesti reportaje dastea sa mai postezi.
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Post by superman on Nov 29, 2007 13:07:34 GMT -5
In their own language (the romanian language) they call themselves "rumâni", NOT "vlahi". The problem is that Serbia and Bulgaria are not democratic enough to respect the rights of this population
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 29, 2007 13:16:01 GMT -5
In their own language (the romanian language) they call themselves "rumâni", NOT "vlahi". The problem is that Serbia and Bulgaria are not democratic enough to respect the rights of this population I think we already dicsussed this. Bulgaria is democratic, otherwise it hardly would ve been an EU member. I took part in the 2001 census in Bulgaria. Actually you could have written any Nationality (there werent even options like vlachs or/and Romanians, it was empty, so you can write it down). You have been lied to, superman.
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Post by superman on Nov 29, 2007 13:19:19 GMT -5
still, you get into EU but with 40% gray economy...just the fact that you were taken together with Romania doesn't mean you already reached the EU level and standards..
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Post by radovic on Nov 29, 2007 13:23:26 GMT -5
In their own language (the romanian language) they call themselves "rumâni", NOT "vlahi". The problem is that Serbia and Bulgaria are not democratic enough to respect the rights of this population Serbia and Bulgaria are democratic. Not all. In Serbian census 54,726 declated Vlach as their mother tongue -- 54,818 declared it their language. They respect the wish of this population and most in this population seem to have declared their language as Vlach. I don't think that it is a language but in the census they have a right to declare their language whatever tyhey wish and they declared it Vlach, not Romanian.
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Post by radovic on Nov 29, 2007 13:24:43 GMT -5
still, you get into EU but with 40% gray economy...just the fact that you were taken together with Romania doesn't mean you already reached the EU level and standards.. Romania and Bulgaria did not achieve EU standards. If you were to rank countries Croatia woulds be ahead of Romania and Bulgaria in achieving EU standards.
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Post by superman on Nov 29, 2007 13:26:38 GMT -5
Croatia maybe in the economics but not in the human rights,..etc...Plus Romania in 2 years will surpass Croatia from economic point of view, GDP per capita.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 29, 2007 13:28:46 GMT -5
still, you get into EU but with 40% gray economy...just the fact that you were taken together with Romania doesn't mean you already reached the EU level and standards.. Well great that Romania doesnt have gray economy! I didnt know it! What I have heard before accession was that BOTH Romania and Bulgaria have problems with corruption, grey economy etc.
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Post by radovic on Nov 29, 2007 13:30:58 GMT -5
Croatia maybe in the economics but not in the human rights,..etc...Plus Romania in 2 years will surpass Croatia from economic point of view, GDP per capita. no. It will take a few years longer then that. Actually, some aspects of human rights and some aspects of the judiciary are where Romania is ahead of Croatia --- everything else Romania is behind Croatia.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 29, 2007 13:31:26 GMT -5
Romania and Bulgaria did not achieve EU standards. If you were to rank countries Croatia woulds be ahead of Romania and Bulgaria in achieving EU standards. I agree that Croatia is richer country than both. However Bulgarian and Romanian legislations are both harmonized with the EU law. So from political point of view we are ready to be members.
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Post by radovic on Nov 29, 2007 13:45:07 GMT -5
Romania and Bulgaria did not achieve EU standards. If you were to rank countries Croatia woulds be ahead of Romania and Bulgaria in achieving EU standards. I agree that Croatia is richer country than both. However Bulgarian and Romanian legislations are both harmonized with the EU law. So from political point of view we are ready to be members. Most Croatian laws are harmonized with the EU as much as Romanian and Bulgarian laws are. The only problem with Croatia would be implementation of these laws -- specifically related to judicial independence and the human rights of Serb returnees. Generally speaking I believe laws in Croatia harmonized with the EU are better implemented then in Romania or Bulgaria (with certain aspects of judicial independence and human rights being notable exceptions).
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Post by diurpaneus on Nov 29, 2007 13:57:19 GMT -5
Oh but they did. But they were ignored and didn`t get any answer for years and years. Then they were fed up with waiting and just built that hut (which functions as a Church). I doubt it. I am sure they declared themselves Romanian. But because the Yugoslavian brainwashing of the Vlachs, now Serbia manipulates the romanian community from that land by segregating them in "Romanians" (the ones from Voievodina) and "Vlachs"(the ones from the Timoc valley and other parts of Serbia) even if they are one and the same nation, speak the same language and have the same customs and beliefs. Yes, of course. And in the same time you can find gold, diamonds and emeralds on the streets of Beijing. Prove it. And seconds, don`t try to hijack the subject or I`ll remove your posts. This subject is about the romanians from Serbia and their persecution. If you want to talk about the differences between Romania and Croatia open a new topic and discuss it there. Nu stiu. Si eu am gasit inregistrarea aia din greseala pe YouTube in timp ce ascultam muzica din Maramures
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Post by superman on Nov 29, 2007 13:58:09 GMT -5
**** keep to the topic ****
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Post by radovic on Nov 29, 2007 14:20:41 GMT -5
Oh but they did. But they were ignored and didn`t get any answer for years and years. Then they were fed up with waiting and just built that hut (which functions as a Church). Well if the did then they didn't register with the post-Milosevic authorities. And if they did they didn't after 2005 when the law regulating religion was passed. The people their have been declaring themselves Vlachs since the first Serbian censuses. In those censuses the Serbian government grouped Aroumanians, Romanians and Vlachs all as one group (this was the case up until 1945 when the communist brought in propaganda of them being different people in order to make irredentist claims on Bulgaria and Romania in particular). Furthermore. I believe you are aware that the Serbian government this summer recognized Romanians and Vlachs as being the same group of people. So your claims no longer apply. Yes, of course. And in the same time you can find gold, diamonds and emeralds on the streets of Beijing. If your going to delete my posts. You may as well delete supermans since he is the one who started mentioning the EU and accessiobn in this post.
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Post by superman on Nov 29, 2007 15:33:21 GMT -5
true.
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Post by c0gnate on Nov 30, 2007 10:52:20 GMT -5
Nonsense. There are Orthodox Serbian and Orthodox Romanian churches across the street from each other in many towns in Vojvodina. Not to mention a Serbian Orthodox bishop in Timisoara with full responsibility for the Orthodox Serbs living in Romania.
The local Serbian bishop (Justin of Timok) has been foaming at the mouth about the Romanian church in Malajnica ever since its construction. He has enticed "the faithful" to physically confront the Vlachs that want their own church. The Serbian Orthodox website has on display a letter from "one of the faithful" that brims with half truths, lies and intimidation aimed at the Vlachs.
The issue about building permits is bogus. First, because hardly any building in the region has such a permit. Second, Father Bojan Aleksandrovic applied for a permit before erecting the church, but his application went unanswered. Not turned down, unanswered. He waited two years to get an answer, but since none was forthcoming he went ahead and built the church on his own property.
After the church was consecrated (by the Romanian bishop from Vrsac), and bishop Justin raised a ruckus, the local government subjected Father Aleksandrovic to threats, interrogations, fines and a suspended sentence. The local mayor ordered the church demolished.
Only the elevation of the issue to the EEC in Strasbourg put a stop to the immediate threat of demolition and violence against the priest and those brave enough to stand up to the intimidation.
The Serbian constitution is self-contradictory. In one article it promises freedom of religion, in another it declares the Serbian Orthodox Church to be the national church. You can't have both.
Only the knowledge that the rest of the world is watching has kept the reactionary Serbs from gaining the upper hand. Because of EEC vigilance two more Vlach churches are near completion.
As to the term "Vlach", that is a deliberate obfuscation on the part of the Serbian Church, the Serbian government, and the Serbian media. The word "Vlach" does not exist in the Vlachs' own language. They call themselves Rumani. It is true that most of them do not feel a political connection to Romania, but consider themselves citizens of Serbia. However that is no reason to deny them schools, media and religion in their own language.
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Post by Catcher in the Rye on Nov 30, 2007 11:22:51 GMT -5
Ca să parafrazez un clasic: c0gnate, ce-ai păţit de te-ai făcut aşa războinic?
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