Fender
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Post by Fender on Apr 16, 2008 18:13:20 GMT -5
Melbourne eatery hails leader of Nazi-allied Croatia By ETGAR LEFKOVITS Print Subscribe E-mail Toolbar Shape public opinion: What's this?
Melbourne's Katarina Zrinski restaurant held a celebration this past weekend to honor World War II Croatian leader Ante Pavelic, whose genocidal policies led to the deaths of 400,000 Serbs, Jews and Gypsies.
The restaurant is attached to the local Croatian club.
The event honoring the head of the Croatian fascist Ustasha movement and the leader of Nazi-allied Croatia was an "outrageous affront" both to his victims and to any persons of morality and conscience who oppose racism and genocide, the Simon Wiesenthal Center's chief Nazi-hunter and Israel director Dr. Efraim Zuroff said on Wednesday.
According to local press reports, a large photograph of Pavelic was hung in the restaurant, T-shirts with his picture and that of two other commanders in the 1941-1945 Ustasha government were offered for sale at the bar, and the establishment of the "Independent State of Croatia" was celebrated.
Zuroff noted this was not the first time that Croatian émigrés in Australia had openly defended Croatian Nazi war criminals.
"It is high time that the authorities in Australia find a way to take the necessary measures to stop such celebrations, which clearly constitute racist, ethnic, and anti-Semitic incitement against Serbs, Jews, and Gypsies," he said.
About 30,000 Croatian Jews - or 80 percent of the country's Jewish population - died during the Holocaust.
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Post by terroreign on Apr 16, 2008 18:21:49 GMT -5
Wow, this is a step backwards
Not to mention in your own town fender! You probably are related to these blokes!
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Post by radovic on Apr 16, 2008 18:36:18 GMT -5
This last part must be a joke. Australia does nothing to confront extremism among diaspora groups.
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Apr 16, 2008 19:06:11 GMT -5
now its 400 000, wow ... when will the manipulation with victim numbers end?
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Post by radovic on Apr 16, 2008 20:56:49 GMT -5
now its 400 000, wow ... when will the manipulation with victim numbers end? It's 800,000 accoridng to Simon Wiesenthal.
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Apr 16, 2008 21:43:18 GMT -5
^^ According to independent reports its 80, 000.
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Post by radovic on Apr 16, 2008 21:53:03 GMT -5
^^ According to independent reports its 80, 000. Wiesenthal is independent. And stated a figure of 800,000. Note wiesenthal is not a serb and he was ocnsiered one oft he top experts on Nazi crimes.
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Apr 16, 2008 22:04:51 GMT -5
^^ Wiesenthal regurgitates serbian communist propaganda. Independent studies have concluded a total of 80 000 victims ... which include serbs, jews, roma, croats, etc.
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Apr 16, 2008 22:05:32 GMT -5
It is estimated that between 1941-1945, up to 80,000 Serbs, Jews, Roma and anti-fascist Croatians were killed at Jasenovac. The estimates for both events substantially vary, with both Croat and Serb nationalists putting the victims' figures up to 10 times higher than independent historians. www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/9424/
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Post by radovic on Apr 16, 2008 22:07:17 GMT -5
It is estimated that between 1941-1945, up to 80,000 Serbs, Jews, Roma and anti-fascist Croatians were killed at Jasenovac. The estimates for both events substantially vary, with both Croat and Serb nationalists putting the victims' figures up to 10 times higher than independent historians. www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/9424/Wiesenthal is an Austrian Jews. He is not a Serb nationalist.
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Apr 16, 2008 22:09:48 GMT -5
^^ Like i said ... Wiesenthal regurgitates serb nationalist propaganda.
If he only checked with the Belgrade Museum of Genocide, his statement would be substantially different. The Belgrafe Museum itself confirms the figure put forward by independent historians. A figure of 80K.
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Post by radovic on Apr 16, 2008 22:25:04 GMT -5
His number is based largley on what Germans claimed: - 400,000 Serbs (Alexander Löhr); - 350,000 Serbs (Lothar Rendulic); - around 300,000 (Edmund Glaise von Horstenau); - more than "3/4 of million of Serbs" (Hermann Neubacher) in 1943; - "600-700,000 until March 1944" (Ernst Fick); - 700,000 (Massenbach).
A communist commission ruled the numbers to be 500,000-600,000. Forensics undertaken in the 1960s indicate the figure to be around 500,000, with figures of 600,000-800,000 feasible but unlikely.
The 80,000 figure is mainly due to the fact that 80,000 vicitms have been named.
The 80,000 figure appeared in the 1980s when a Croat eocnomist used statistical mathematics to claim a figure of that. The results are questionable. This same Croat eocnomist also purposely miscalculated the number of wartime deaths in Bosnia to be twice what they actually are.
Oh and i made a mistake Wiesenthal stated 500,000 at the Nuremburg trials.
Furthermore, this topic is going off track. And if you read other data (including the Holocause War Memorial museum) it specifically mentions 330,000-390,000 Serbs killed in Croatia -- which is in line with the figure claimed in the report.
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Apr 16, 2008 22:31:41 GMT -5
The results are questionable. Your absolutely right. And that brings into question the credibility of the germans, serbs, and jews alike. Putting further weight to the argument that the nationalists inflated figures for their own politcal gains.
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Post by radovic on Apr 16, 2008 22:35:04 GMT -5
^ There were at least around 350,000 Serb deaths in Croatia. Jasenovac deaths are unknown and probably won't be figured out ever.
Furthermore. The credibitility of croats is also questionable. Croats have a perfect reason to inflate their numbers when talking to Germans in WWII and deflate them after having lost the war.
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Apr 16, 2008 22:42:31 GMT -5
^^ The confusion with victims numbers discredits all of the figures that u have put forth. So claiming that 350 000 is the most reliable figure is unreasonable ... due to this simple fact, and the fact that many independent historians have concluded otherwise.
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Post by radovic on Apr 16, 2008 22:46:31 GMT -5
^^ The confusion with victims numbers discredits all of the figures that u have put forth. So claiming that 350 000 is the most reliable figure is unreasonable ... due to this simple fact, and the fact that many independent historians have concluded otherwise. No one has concluded otherwise. The only thing historians differ greatly on is the number of Jasenovac deaths.
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Apr 16, 2008 23:11:26 GMT -5
^^ U serbs would have had an easier time convincing the world of your 'claims' had u picked a figure and sticked to it. But no, each greedy generation of nationalists kept putting that figure higher and higher to the point where most people simply do not believe you anymore.
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Post by Trazi Vise on Apr 17, 2008 2:12:58 GMT -5
Only a week earlier, they reviewed our restaurant in the Epicure section (The Age), then I read this govno. The Ustasa and Deseti Travanj day was implemented long before the horrors of WWII.
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Fender
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Post by Fender on Apr 17, 2008 3:12:41 GMT -5
Only a week earlier, they reviewed our restaurant in the Epicure section (The Age), then I read this govno. The Ustasa and Deseti Travanj day was implemented long before the horrors of WWII. Illyria, there's no escaping the truth. My dad went there once and he said that they saluted Pavelic with the Hitler salute. Its a fact. This club is a blight on Croatian society in Melbourne.
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Post by montenegrodeki on Apr 17, 2008 4:56:30 GMT -5
80,000 or 1 million, who cares its still horrific, the fact that some Croats idolise the ustasha and that thompson dick, is lame, why don't they get a life. Some of these ex Yugo's in Austrialia are so backwards, they still live and act like they are in the Village back home, with primitive idea's about nationalism and religion.
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