CiKoLa
Amicus
Gotovina Heroj!
Posts: 3,728
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Post by CiKoLa on Apr 9, 2008 19:21:35 GMT -5
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CiKoLa
Amicus
Gotovina Heroj!
Posts: 3,728
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Post by CiKoLa on Apr 9, 2008 22:19:26 GMT -5
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Post by terroreign on Apr 9, 2008 22:52:33 GMT -5
sto ti je travanje jbt...da li je to tovar ili tako nesto
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Apr 9, 2008 23:41:17 GMT -5
^ Travanj je April. NDH was established on this date.
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Apr 10, 2008 2:39:11 GMT -5
happy 10th of april
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Apr 10, 2008 7:33:12 GMT -5
Zanimljivo u Zadru se slavi osnivanje NDH a zna se da je Pavelic prodao Dalmaciju Talijanima tj. Dalmacija nije ni bila deo NDH.
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
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Post by Trazi Vise on Apr 10, 2008 13:11:13 GMT -5
A little late re celebreations haha, but happy 10 April...
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Anthologic
Amicus
"Lord of all Reality"
Ha!
Posts: 1,237
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Post by Anthologic on Apr 10, 2008 13:26:11 GMT -5
Do the Germans still celebrate Nazi Germany?
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Anthologic
Amicus
"Lord of all Reality"
Ha!
Posts: 1,237
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Post by Anthologic on Apr 10, 2008 14:24:14 GMT -5
A simple yes or no would have been fine.
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Apr 10, 2008 14:28:18 GMT -5
No. They have nothing to celebrate since they were already independent.
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Post by zgembo on Apr 10, 2008 15:00:40 GMT -5
Is Croatian history really that bare that achieving 'independence' after NAZI conquest and as a puppet to Hitler is worthy of celebration (especially when such a regime was blatantly genocidal and fascist)? You get mad when its suggested that Croats have no history, yet this is so illuminating.
The quote by Jovan Ducic says it all: Hrvati su najhrabriji narod na svetu, ali ne zato što se ničega ne boje, već zato što se ničega ne stide!
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Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
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Post by Zvone on Apr 10, 2008 15:41:03 GMT -5
This is repulsive. NDH is nothing to be proud of. However, being independent is. That’s what people like mapko don’t understand. Most people in Croatia supported independence; communists, fascist, liberal, conservative, etc. But the independence we received turned into a nightmare when Pavelic sold our coastline to the Italians. People started to hate the NDH for doing such a thing and fighting against it. So you have to have two perspectives here, mapko. 1st, Croatia became independent which it had not been since the 12th century. 2nd, the NDH was a terrible puppet state not supported by the people. This date is used to signal impending independence, not Ustasha crimes. Some people choose to acknowledge it, I don’t. But you can’t misconstrue symbolism and label everyone in accordance to your obviously bias opinion.
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Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
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Post by Zvone on Apr 10, 2008 16:02:34 GMT -5
BTW I can't respond to the "Future of BiH" thread. But I don't think GNP is really accurate when considering Croatia. GNP measure also the income of people living abroad and subtracts that of foreigners living in the country. Knowing the many gastarbeiters that were living abroad, the GNP would be a lot higher for Croatia. That's why GNP is becoming less used as a measure; because it takes into effect the people living abroad. I would like to see some GDP sources if you have them available.
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Post by zgembo on Apr 10, 2008 16:17:16 GMT -5
^ The difference between GNP and GDP can only be a minor influence, and there is nothing to suggest more foreign workers came from Croatia than Serbia (in fact, the opposite could be true considering Serbia was poorer). You are clutching at straws.
What's reprehensible in taking pride of this date is not the independence, but how it was achieved. You were granted a PUPPET STATE, thus not even a fully independent entity, by the most despicable dictator in the history of mankind. You didn't struggle to achieve it. It was annoited to you, or rather to a fascist Croat living in Italy, following the conquest and defeat of Yugoslavia. Taking pride in an independence achieved in that manner is pathetic and illustrative of lack of anything else to be proud about in history.
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Apr 10, 2008 16:29:02 GMT -5
Croatia and Croats have a very long history. I won't agree at all on the part that our history is a "poor" one. But the way independence was achieved in WWII was not pathetic, but diplomatic. I would never, nor do I, support Pavelic's Government. I'd have much rather had Vladko Macek run the nation (Which he was offered to do twice, and turned it down both times). That man was a fair man, and would have been a good leader. Serbia has it's ups and downs in WWII also. Sure you had the Yugoslav Army in the Fatherland (Cetnik Movement), but you also had "Nedic's Serbia". The kind of Serbia nobody ever mentions, nor does want to mention.
I really dislike the policies of Pavelic's NDH (Both foreign and domestic), because the man was an idiot. The independence of Croatia on that day is nothing to be ashamed of, but installing a regime that supported the loss of 30% of the Croatian Dalmacija and the government that condoned and ordered killings of innocent civilians, is.
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Anthologic
Amicus
"Lord of all Reality"
Ha!
Posts: 1,237
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Post by Anthologic on Apr 10, 2008 16:59:54 GMT -5
No. They have nothing to celebrate since they were already independent. But that's when they were at their greatest power in relation to the rest of Europe, and greatest land mass... No?
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Post by zgembo on Apr 10, 2008 18:23:29 GMT -5
But the way independence was achieved in WWII was not pathetic, but diplomatic. Do elaborate on this diplomatic struggle that deserves such praise and commemoration.
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CiKoLa
Amicus
Gotovina Heroj!
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Post by CiKoLa on Apr 10, 2008 18:48:42 GMT -5
Zivio 10ti Travanj ... pozdrav Metkovicu
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
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Post by MiG on Apr 10, 2008 21:36:28 GMT -5
But the way independence was achieved in WWII was not pathetic, but diplomatic. Do elaborate on this diplomatic struggle that deserves such praise and commemoration. Well they got out of it as a puppet state, didn't they? They got most of the territory of the Croatian Kingdom, didn't they? But because they were a puppet state, they got major economic, technological, and military help, didn't they? They mooched off the big powers, meanwhile giving the Croat People a nation to call their own, didn't they? Sure they were as terrible and brutal governments as they come, but to the Croatian people, the independence they got was enough to satisfy the Croats. Then they started ethnic cleansing, and like any normal populace, they started resenting the Government for what it did. BTW, when Italy collapsed in 1943, Croatia got back it's coast, and was going to stay that way, had Hitler signed the peace treaties the Allies were offering. Does anyone here know of the Coup attempt against Pavelic? You would be surprised how little in numbers Ustase really were.
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CiKoLa
Amicus
Gotovina Heroj!
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Post by CiKoLa on Apr 11, 2008 2:12:56 GMT -5
Slavimo 10. travnja jer se ne odricemo boraca za Hrvatsku Drzavu, za Nezavisnu Drzavu Hrvatsku. Oni i njihov Poglavar nisu se borili ni za kakav fasizam, komunizam, nacionalsocijalizam, njima je to bilo strano, oni su ginuli samo i jedino za Hrvatsku Drzavu. Upravo zato se ne odricemo i ne ogradjujemo od Nezavisne Drzave Hrvatske, njezinih hrabrih branitelja i njezina Poglavnika dr. Ante Pavelica, jer ih je vodila ljubav prema domovini i narodu
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