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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 17, 2010 19:34:37 GMT -5
Look Turkey has to become a great power again since only then we can benefit from its downfall once more. The first time they were about to disappear we didnt really make use of the chance given to us ending in a catastrophy (--> Asia Minor catastrophy).
Turkey has to become great again in order to give us a second chance to remediate the mistakes we did 90 years ago. This is why I fully support a turkish ascension in the field of political and military power.
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 17, 2010 19:23:21 GMT -5
Ο ΚΑΙΡΟΣ ΓΑΡ ΕΓΓΥΣ.
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 17, 2010 19:16:49 GMT -5
We are the last ones who want to change you...as we did always benefit from you being like that...^^ Benefited in what way? Being an Ottoman vassal for 500 years. And given how things are going right now maybe for another 1000 years. You sure did outsmart us primitives. Your problem insomniac is that you are always trying to match with the Greek people. And afterwards when you realize that you fell flat on your face with that you are playing the Ottoman or economy crisis-card....thing is you are just admitting your argumentative defeat with that...
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 17, 2010 18:54:55 GMT -5
pfff come on...you dont believe what you are saying....be honest for one time in your life...especially to yourself.
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 17, 2010 18:53:36 GMT -5
We are the last ones who want to change you...as we did always benefit from you being like that...^^
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 17, 2010 18:51:34 GMT -5
Well said eva.
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 17, 2010 17:14:35 GMT -5
So you can be an Orthodox without being a Greek but you can't be Greek without being Orthodox? Also can some of the members here give me a history lesson. I'm interested in knowing about the process, how and when Orthodoxy ended up being on equal footing with ethnicity or to say it better how and when did being Greek meant being orthodox? Anyone knowledgeable enough to explain? Well I guess this happened during the turkish rule most probably. During the middle age it was much more important to be of orthodox religion than of Hellenic descent. Orthodoxy was our ethnicity in some way. At the end of the Byzantine Empire...13th, 14th century when the Empire lost a lot of territories...it occured for the first time that historians and intellectuals started to talk openly (!) again about the "elliniko genos" (Hellenic stock) instead of the "Roman" dream the inhabitants were dreaming for most of the time since 330. The population within the borders of the shrunken Empire which was now indeed pred. Hellenic in origin started to acknowledge a "Hellenic" origin despite the monotheistic Christianity since till then the term Hellenic was always considered to be kind of insulting...since it described pagan people only. But I guess this fusion between Hellenism and Orthodoxy as we have it today occured massively probably in the 18-19th century for the first time. Till then the people were orthodox and thus different from the Turks...there was no need for further differentiation. After seing the ottoman Empire going down and simultaneously inspired by the French Revolution the national movements all over Europe many Greek intellectuals started to write about a Greek national state and a Greek nation. The church did from the very beginnging support such ideas actively...so in this way it could preserve its importance it had since the early middle age for our people. Its important to understand that talking about this time it was not Orthodoxy that was added to our at that time identity but Hellenism. Some people who dislike the church wont like that but thats the truth. Many prefer to make connections from todays Greeks to ancient Greeks...and surely there can be made some. But we are a multiple closer (not only because and in terms of time) and more similar to the Byzantines. And the Byzantines again were much closer to the modern Greeks than to anyone else (for example the ancient Greeks who they "displaced"). This is at least my own view...perhaps there are some Greeks who do not agree with me. If so I please them to openly disagree with me.
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 17, 2010 13:03:52 GMT -5
So Greek Orthodoxy, is like Judaism? It takes over ethnicity when it comes to people identifying themselves. No not exactly (but perhaps to some afar extent) since Orthodoxy does not highlight the existence-beginning of our people nor does it come close to it. Also as Patrinos said there are several groups among the orthodox people. Greeks are Greek orthodox and not albanian, serbian or russian orthodox. Both terms Greekness (in terms of language and blood to some extent) and Orthodoxy (in terms of religion) are merged to one identity. "Romiosini" (Romanness in terms of Hellenic in origin but Christian in religion) does express this fusion pretty well in my opinion although this term is hardly used today among Greeks who are living outside (todays) Turkey.
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 17, 2010 9:50:25 GMT -5
Well...just imagine a Greek person to tell you that he is not orthodox...neither his family. No one can tell me this wouldnt have a strange smack. I know some witnesses of Jehova...I did always (as little child) consider them to be strangers...and at home when my parents refered to particular persons of that faith they did never call them by their names but simply by "o Iechowas" or "i ginaika tou Iechowa"....my grandfather again regarded them to be devil's kids and did always went wild whenever they knocked on our door trying to convert us. ;D
Its very difficult (in practice, too) to be a Greek who is not orthodox. Festivities like Christmas or especially Easter or the 15th August have a pretty national smack among Greeks. When Greek people meet at the street before Easter they talk about Easter, about the church and how they will celebrate it. This is what forms our culture after all..what shall a non-orthodox tell you then...first of all you will never mention such a topic when you see him since you know he does no celebrate like you do. Automatically you do not feel to him as close as to other Greeks...
Hellboy I didnt say orthodoxy is Greek per se I was talking about Greek orthodoxy (subgroup of it). On the other hand again Orthodoxy wouldnt exist without the Greeks today. Orthodoxy spread through the Byzantine Empire to Russia. And this Empire was a Greek Empire.
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 17, 2010 7:32:11 GMT -5
Greek orthodoxy is Greek thus you have to be orthodox in order to be a full-fledged Greek. Not urgently religious...but the baptism is necessary in order to be Greek. There are surely some who say today that religion is not important but I represent the conservative view and believe me still 50 years ago hardly anyone would disagree with me on that. But also today I would say the clear majority says that Greek means to be also Greek orthodox. Not just Christian...orthodox!
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 16, 2010 16:02:38 GMT -5
Im a hypocrite? Thats your opinion...I dont agree with that. On the other hand we agree with each other that you are a hypocrite. So we can say the last mentioned must be pretty true...
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 16, 2010 15:48:30 GMT -5
If Germany was a country of 10 mio people I would fully understand them if they did. You can have a good life also without being a German citizen. I dont say there shouldnt take place any naturalizatuons...just the criterions should be severe...for Greece...very severe.
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 16, 2010 15:39:39 GMT -5
rofl...ever looked in the mirror?
Albanians are anything but pure...you dont know what you are talking about.
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 16, 2010 15:36:50 GMT -5
There you say sth...ngadho is a hypocrite...he does appear as an albanian nationalist here always backing up pilkati with his views and now all of a sudden he has turned the samaritan of all immigrants?...who is he telling that...
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 16, 2010 15:30:26 GMT -5
I dont think my comment is abhorrent. You have not understood some important things. This is not America...this is Europe. As a European citizen you would think the same way...since Europe does in contrast to the USA have some tightened identity.
Germany did never give me citizenship...because Im a proud Greek and dont need it. My parents and grandparents didnt either...also not before 1981. They prefered to renew their residence permit...just like over 95% of the Greeks here. I can not be a German...also if I wanted.....Im not a part of this people...its past..and history. This is my view.
What I want to say is you can fully integrate into society without having to give up your identity. I know that for you albanians the national consciousness and identity has always been negotiable but for some people it isnt...accept it.
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 16, 2010 15:17:01 GMT -5
ase mas more kai 'si pou einai beautiful...
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 16, 2010 15:15:54 GMT -5
I dont find the armenian style bad looking...it fitts very well to eastern Anatolia. Also keep in mind the armenian national church is the oldest in the world. That means this style is a proto-christian style. Some say this is the oldest church in the world.. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etchmiadzin_Cathedral
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 16, 2010 15:07:56 GMT -5
ngadho find a sentence of mine where I said I have a problem with immigrants. In contrast...I have a problem with labelling them as criminal in general because its always the easiest way to make a minority responsible for every kind of grievance within a country. Things are usually not that easy...although we should consider that particular quarters of the bigger cities are infested more and more by robberies committed by immigrants. But its the task of the police to fight them...not ours to develop a distate against immigrants in general.
What I have a problem with is to naturalize immigrants that easily as the new government is going to do...
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 16, 2010 14:58:52 GMT -5
not only had such a style, a bigger part of them also was Greek or Armenian churches.
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 16, 2010 14:49:26 GMT -5
Hopefully future clients wont see those comments you are confusing the lawyers with the judges. Lawyers are not the way you think they are or should be.
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