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Post by oszkarthehun on Dec 28, 2007 16:02:13 GMT -5
[/quote]
I think majority Romanians were Romanised Illyrians, mostt of the topography/placenames in Transylvania region which was once Dacia and supposedly the land of the Daco-Roms before the Hungarians arrived was Slavic I think there is almost no Romanian word placenames but later the placenames Romanians adopted placenames taklen from Slavic or Hungarian words meaning that they was just Romanised variants. The Romanian histiography has a lot of responses to anything that is against their Daco-Rom continuity theory but really in my oppinion I dont find many of their arguments convincing and as I said about placenames if any people inhabit a place continuosly for hundreds of years its most likely they keep their own placenames. I alo tend to believe some Romanians or proto Romanians/Vlachs were living in very southern region of Transylvania around Fogaras at the time of Hungarian arrival into North Transylvania but very few of them if any was in the north at that point as mostly Slavic peoples were encountered. I agree with you Rom histoy is complex but I think for the most part they weree Romanised Illyrians and they probably moved north with the Bulgars. Once they were in Transylvania region I tend to agree to certain point with the Romanians historian Djuvara they mixed heavily with Slavs that eventually assimilated to them maybe its possible some percentage of free Dacians or Slavicised Dacians went ino them also but I dont know how much proof there is that Dacians survived through to 9th/ 8th century and if so I imagine in very small numbers.
I dont think its a case of direct descent by origin but rather the proto Hungarians before entering Hungary had mixed with and assimilated Alan tribes this is evidenced by linguistics also. In the Hungarian Hunor-Magor origin legend which was written around 14th century the Magyars were the product of intermarriage of Scythians and Alans and their brothers the Huns were also product of Scythians and Alans. in the 12th century a group of Iranian people called Jasz possibly relations of Alans moved to Hungary and were later asimilated into Hungarian ethnogenesis.
The Hungarian history is complex. Whilst I think their is some truth to be found in Finno-Ugric theory I dont discount completely other ideas . The Finno-Ugric theory probably uses the wrong terms as the question is who exactly are we talking about I dont think their is much connection with Finns but possibly distant connection with Uralic tribes but again I believe there are things that are maybe not known enough about Uralic tribes of that period. For example not much is really known about Huns nobody knows exactly what language they spoke most say Turkic language but for all we know maybe it was Uralic or maybe Turkic-Uralic or maybe Hungarian my point is in my oppinion the Hungarian history is complex and I dont discount completly certain possibilities and the Finno-Ugric theory doesnt explain evrything its a late theory developed in more modern times. Yes Hungarians are predominantly European by blood and location but we have an eastern heritage also and their is still some eastern genetics in Hungary supposedly 25% Turanian amongst us. Its not unusual to find eastern elements in east european people for example many southern Slavs also assimilated the remnants of the Avar empire. There are Turkics ...Cumans and Petchenegs assimilated into Romanians and Poles and Ukraines had a lot of Tatar assimilation.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Dec 26, 2007 20:57:21 GMT -5
[
I agree to an extent with Srbobran but I will say its most lilelly that Croatians and Serbs were from same stock their language is so similiar it must came from same area okthey may been sepereated as different tribes origininally they both probably came from Sarmatians or some Iranian tribes but this open so many questions 1) did they have prelanguage b4 Slav. 2) I have read genetically they are mostly Illyrians this means they are from stock of the indifenous peoples that inhabit that southern europe peninsula. So it seems original tribes intermixed with what may have been majority population of Illyrians. I doubt Serbs are Armenians anyway Armenians are possibly very distantly related to Greeks but also Iranian peoples and possibly also Kurds anyway Kurds are Iranian people. As for Russians and Serbs that was political alliance and they share the Orthodox faith hence some sympatico between them.
Romanians
Romanians claim they from the ancient Daco-Roman in Dacia, they go as far as saying Roman empire was infact Romanian Empire. Another bs theory says that they are Cumanians and Tatars. Answer is wrong, there's no evidence to prove that Romanians decend from Romans or Dacians whatsoever, neither they decend from Tatars or Cumanians why?? cause Hungarians decend from Tatars and Cumanians, Cumanian state was in Hungary before they assimilate into Hungarians. Romanians also from Armenia plus India.[/quote]
Romanians in my oppinion possibly had a very small amount of free Dacian stock that went in but not much as I doubt much Dacian pop survived their are many reasons to believe Romanians are were Romanised Illyrians mostly from area around modern day Macedonia and in my oppinion they probably moved north with the Bulgarians when the Bulgarians moved north of Balkans up into Southern Transylvania. Besides that Romanians did mix a lot with Slavs and yes to some degree with Turkic peoples such as Cumans and Petchenegs.
Hungarians definity assimilated Cumans,Avars,Alan/Jasz Petcheneg,Khazar/Kabar and I wouldnt be suprised if there was some truth in an alternative theory for example that has been suggested the 2nd wave of the so called Avars in the 6th/7th century were actually the first migration of the Hungarians I dont think its unlikely the Hungarians were in Karpat Medenc some time before 895/896.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Nov 16, 2007 3:08:13 GMT -5
all secui people hate hungarians for stoling old secui language and imposing something related with Hungarian language. All Secui people love now to be integrated into the Romanian culture because here they earn the EUROS, now that most Romanians have better jobs, more money, better villas, all secui wants to transform themselves into Romanians. what the fak was old Secui language, do you mean Romanised people who once was Hungarian Szekely and been Romanised , why would they hate Hungarians for that. Listen under Hungary Szekely had their iown nation and lived well under Romania Szekely had nothing and faced xenophobic Romanian discrimination. Bonni I finished to argue with you cause nobody believe you anyway.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Nov 14, 2007 7:23:18 GMT -5
and by the way Oschi, the number of Hungarian-speaking Romanians in Romania is very fast decreasing. There are 2 factors: 1. To know Romanian language is 100% needed. You can't live without it. 2. Most Hungarian-speaking Romanians say Hungarian is too hard to learn for them, it's a difficult language, they don't know how to write even,...and they prefer to go out with Romanian rich boys. 3. Secui language is becoming a reality, check the latest number of publications on this theme. Szekely are alive and well , they still asking for autonomy. You are just frustrated Hungarian hating Romanian nationlist I dont believ you are Secui nd tell me if you are why you unhappyu about that the Szekely have a ptoud history and for those Romanised ones they have short Romanised history but they have long history as Hungarian Szekely so why you hate that so much.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Nov 15, 2007 3:35:09 GMT -5
mint mi pedalul? magyaristani torzrol? azt sem ertem hogy niyert nem hiszeg el amit mondtam neked? magyaristani ez az legy oreg magyar torzs a ozstesz dunyaban, wa megsze van le szerelva a nyelv mar tobb mint ezer eve, a te nagy apad Arpad ezt a nyelvet beszelt nem mint hulye mostani slavozasi-nemet-cigany magyar nyelv, tell me just 1 or 2 words for Hello in hungarian and i will tell u completely if it's hungarian or not, for example szervus and szia, it's isnt hungarian is it? both of them are saxon words, servus is german and szia is originate from "see ya" which is english, but salaam aleykum and merhaba is still not hungarian but that's the original words magyars use to say before when they were muslims, hungarian language is the only language in the world that hasnt have it's own word for hello, now what u say oski? szia and szervus had been established during the habsburg time, but before that what? szalam aleykum and merhaba no? or is it zdravo or buna ziua like the romanians? cmon man. it's already showin millions of time that the magyar christians are the only one that kept on changing the history by inventing fictional stories about our decendent like Finno-Ugric crap which has been invented no previous than 19th century, u wanna know the real history habib? iraq my friend, we decended from iraq and the middle east including the arabian peninsula, and yes we are semetic people because magyar is a semetic name, and many people around the world knows that even if many magyars like u are claiming to be finno-ugric, well read this short paragraph from wiki. Almásy is introduced as 'the English patient', but it is later revealed that he is Hungarian. Similarly, a song that he listens to, which Katharine assumes to be Arabic, turns out to be a Hungarian song: "My dajka sang it to me when I was a child growing up in Budapest".en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_English_Patient_%28film%29even katharine assumes that magyar language is arabic which is semetic, and there are many arabs i know that heard me speaking hungarian on the phone, guess what they ask me? isnt ur language is mixture of Turkish and arabic? i understand some words but other is confusing, did hungarians mixs turkish and arabic words that become hungarian language, and i said yes. cmon, my own mind? go to szentendrei sziget and see if u can find any magyaristanis there, i can easily find them for example Szigetmonostor which in magyaristani dialect is Szigetmecset, Kisorosi which in magyaristani is Kismecset, szentendrei sziget is the place where im actually gonna migrate to once i arrive in hungary. Szentendrei sziget which is in the middle of the duna will soon enough be a muslim majority island before budapest or bakonykuti or Szentendre or Kovaszna in Szekelyfold why? because we muslims are settling in that region by pitching up tents and making kids there before we buy or build houses there. so what is it gonna be? "the only muslim island in europe of the danube" or a magyar muszlim sziget? lol. magyar garda are favouring us muslims, cause we are the only loyal one towards hungary, and no they cant do just chit on us even when we make bs as u refered to. I understand what you said and what you mean about Magyaristani and about Saxon and Slavic influence but what you do WBB is you reinvent in your own mix of words what you call Mgyaristani or if you wanna say you dont and that is from a historical text of archaic Hungarian then plse show me the sources and the evidence, plse show me the sources and the evidence that Hungarians said Merhaba and Salam Aylaykem before they said Szervusz vagy Szia. Maybe some of them had to say those words when they was under Ottoman rule but plse prove to me in the conquest period that they ever said those words. Its always the same thing you make grand statement but you can never back it up with any real evidence. Yes maybe some of those Kabar tribes that travelled with the Magyars was Muslims but its also possible some was Jews as there have been Kabar gravesites found with Jewish artefacts. The Hungarians didnt care what religion anybody was in those times the majority Hungarians had their own religion that I have shown before and it wasnt Islam like you wanna tell evreybody like you wanna believe. Hungarians was already exposed to a few different religions by the time they entered Karpat medenc including Christianity, Judaism, and Islam there is no evidence they was majority in any of those religion but rather they had their own religion untill adoption of Christianity this is the facts the MagyarGuarda if they know Hungarian history will tell you the same any Hungarian will tell you the same you are the one who wanna believe and want everybody else to believe something different. Hungarian is an old language I doubt its semetic as they are not agglutinitive as far as I know and Sumerian wasnt considered Semetic as far as I know either, if you really listen to Arabic or Jewish it dont sound so close to Hungarian. there are words in other languages that do sound close to Hungarian for example the Hungarian word for small = kicsi is simiuliar to both the Persian and Turkic word for small they are both something like kishi. also the Hungarian words " who is it" = ki ez is similiar to in Persian ki e', the Hungarian word for always = Mindig, a bit similiar to the Armenian word always = Mindsh. The Turkic and Persian influence is no suprise as Hungarians were close to and assimilated both but there is no close Arabic connection except for perhaps a few words that may have been passed through by Ottoman Turks who had absorbed some Arabic but even English and many European languages has some Arab words. The Fiino-Ugric is probably the wrong term as Hungarian is partially closer to the Uralic but as to how it is related is more the question as even in that case the relationship is very distant but I wouldnt deny it completly, still many Hungarian words are of unknown origin attesting to fact its very old language maybe even possibly a prelanguage to some other languages as suggested in Ural-Altaic theory. Again you talk in riddles whn you have no real proof for what the fak u talkin about, what the fak u mean by Magyaristani in Szentendre are you talking about Hungarian Muslim converts ? are you talking about Hungarian Muslims from foreign parents eg Bosnians,Arabs, Sudanes ? or you still pretend there is some historical clan that always lived in Hungary that had a continuity of some Hungarian-Turkic-Arab language that hasnt been documented or nobody knows about but you... as I said you talk BS. There is a Hungarian people and dialect called Paloc, some people believe Paloc was from some type of Turkic like Kuns or Petcheneg/Besenyo or something but as far as any history can show they always spoike Hungarian and if they was ever any different they been well integrated for hundreds years , but you didnt even mention Paloc but even still I dont think is any more Turkic words in their language than other Hungarian dialect that is same for Szekely . Hungarian scholar in the 16th century said if you wanna see the very pure Hungarian listen to the Szekely but even Szekely dont have more Turkic words than other Hungarian and Szekely has been less affected by linguistic influences on Hungarian language. [/quote] I am not one of there members but I doubt they would be supporting Islamic republic of Hungary like you do I think if you wanna mention that idea to them in a serious way make sure you are far away from them. Magyar Guarda say they wanna protect and maintain Hungarian culture that means thgey dont wanna overinfluence from Western or absolute Eastern population influx they wanna maintain Hungarian culture as it has been established in last 1000 years in Karpat medenc , erted.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Nov 14, 2007 6:43:35 GMT -5
Bonni not even magyar garda behave in a way that oski bacsi behaves, that's how aussies in australia behaves towards none aussies like me, chinese, arabs, indians. so Bonni u shouldnt be surprise that im going back to hungary in 4-5 months insha-allah cause i have been discriminated in australia too much that now i hates so much of being aussie or being integrated in bs aussie society, there's only one nation in the world where i can regard myself as hungarian and that is Hungary. yes bonni australia is a very very primitive country more worst than magyar garda, u have to be mafia or marry a mafia if u wanna live in australia, australia is a home for mafia habib, not for normal person like me. oh well im glad im going back, i had enough of those friken more than 15 years of misery and boring life in australia, im so upset to hear that my step mum and my step-sister wants to move in melbourne in january next year, they are from zuglo too and zuglo is a very good area compare to friken australia believe me bonni, but my step-sister is leaving all her good friends including her szekely friend behind to live in australia, well im not impressed with that, but i hope she will come back to hungary since she will realise that australia is worst than hungary. this has always been the problem the only problem I had with You WBB not that your a Muslim no not that your non Australian no, but you talk a lot of BS yes thats it . You dont know anything about me , for example just today I had lunch with my lebanese friend who is a muslim . As I have said before most of my friends I grew up with was from all different backgrounds, Chinese, Indian, Polynesian, European etc. So its BS the type of person you say I am that I treat you bad cause your this or that . As I said the only problem I ever had with you is you talk BS. I never had problem with anything Yeni said he is a muslim the religion makes no difference to me I dont judge by that I judge by how person behave. And from You WBB I see someone who makes up and invents stories about Hungary. Invents natioanlirties and dialect Magyaristaani that dont even exist excvept in your own mind. Even that dont bother me as you can think what you like but you come to the forum and say all these things publicly and create BS impression for other people who maybe dont know you are full of chit, you lying to not just and on behalf of Hungarians but also to other Muslims too. who know's what your problem is as there are many Muslims that look much more Arab than you do that love living in Australia. One of my University lecturers who is Arab from Africa told us Australia is one of best countries in the world and he is so happy to live here. I hope the MagyarGuarda have no problems with decent moderate Muslims as many Muslims are but MagyarGuarda might have some problems with people who talk lot of BS about Hungary.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Nov 14, 2007 6:13:16 GMT -5
and Oscar, wbb is one of the representative for the future of Hungary, he represents something, a reality that you try to hide. He is real, and his thoughts are real. he represent something in every country Bonni meaning that in every country probably in last 20 years there has been more converts to Islam but prportionatly I doubt Hungary is any different in this respect to any other Western country but its not likely Islam would become majority in those countries its just finding its way in percentages of population around the world. There are more Muslims in Romania than in Hungary Bonni always was I dont say this as bad thing I just stating you a fact.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Nov 13, 2007 5:25:22 GMT -5
I just don't like that Oscar to say bad things about you wbb. Wbb, are you destructive for Hungary as Oscar said? I dont believe you have any genuine support of WBB Bonni. I might not agree entirely with some of WBB ideas but it doesnt mean I am against him as a person as the man himself no I havnt met him and otherwise maybe we have some differing ideas but I didnt personally attack him in anyway and didnt mean to. Bonni as I said I dont berliev you support WBB at all your motivation for seeming to support him is only for one reason because you want to create division in Hungarian community I am completly right about that in fact WBB is nothing but a tool for you for you to create division and make Hungary weeak thgis is ultimatly what you want and yes Bonni I have exposed you once and for all and I am completly right about that idea I have no doubt.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Nov 13, 2007 5:17:08 GMT -5
You Oscar are just oppressing the human rights of Secui to identity themselves as Secui and not magyars. Secui are so much different, both in physical and social differences of Magyars. Just because, you as a Magyar wants to impose your language to Secui, this is not going to happen. And Oscar, for your information, nobody has to divide and separate you. You're already divided into Hungarian-speaking Romanians and Secui people. Both of the separated community speak almost a different language, have different culture, traditions, religion, etc. There are about two ethinicities here. Secui people have their own right to their ethnicity. You are wanting for Romanisation of a Hungarian people this is what natiolistic politicians like Funar want in Romania and I see you are actively involved in this quest maybe even you are involved in politics to do that also, WBB dont think Bonni is just the innocent kid type character that he could seem he is actually very obsessive nationalist a Romanian nationalist probably even extremist who has same mentality as Funar if Bonni had the power he would Romanise the entire Hungarian community in Erdely very quickly WBB dont be fooled Bonni is y very cunning and sneaky nationalist and I see that very clearly he is as I said a propergansist and political agent and believe me he supports you not because he is a muslim Im sure he is not he supports you because he is playing the very old political game of divide and rule. how can I impose their original language on them Bonni Szekely are the purest Magyars. Secui for me is not a real seperate ethnicity it just mean Szekely but if they themseles call themselves Secui and decide to deny their Hungarianess then my oppinion is plse stop calling yourself Secui and just calll yourself Romanian because Secui is just Romanised Hungarian word the the real meaning is Szekely. This comment proves to me you are some type of Romanian xenophobic politician in same mentality as Funar he tried to use these tactics to under represent the Hungarian population in Transylvania. The fact is majority of Szekely call themselves Szekely and speak Hungarian they are a stubborn minded people that can not be changed so easily. A Romanian from another forum told Me when he went to Haromszek there was many Szekely he met that couldnt even speak Romanian to me I thought it didnt sound right either but he said they all speaking Hungarian and even the few Romanians living there speaking Hungarian. Szekely are not so much different to Hungarians except they ahve been less affected by other more recent influences that went into Hungary for example influences that changed Hungarian language in Hungary whereas Szkely Hungarian didnt change as much and remain more closer to the times of Hungarians of Arpads times. Bonni you infact are the odd one out cause majority Szekely want autonomy but you wanna stop and suppress this so you are in fact the fascist.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Nov 10, 2007 4:10:54 GMT -5
Oschi, you hate Romanians so much than you hate also Secui who are well integrated into the Romanian culture. Are you an irredentist? Cause this is what you show. You deny the right of Secui to their own culture, language, history. If Secui would be Hungarians why Secui have a different name, religion, language and history. They dont have different language to Hungarian if they are Hungarian speaking. If they speak only Romanian anmd identify to be Romanian they are no longer Szekely/Sicui/Szekelr but Romanian and we can say they hve been Romanised because it means they lost their real cvulture and language dont you understand this . otherwise there is no such thing as Secui that word is just a Romanian name for Szekely as is the German Szekler , all are one people which are Szekely whom are by origin, culture and languaghe Hungarian. It is a Romanian political motive to call them Sicui and seperate them from any Hungarian identity because Romanian wasnna dissolve Hungaeian Szekely Haromszek region the whole Sicui idea is politics and its why I saying you are propaganderist and political agent because you are promoting same thing.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Nov 10, 2007 1:27:24 GMT -5
Oschi, you don't know the things in so called "hungarian minority" from Romania. First of all, it's the most divided community in the world. It contains "6-650,000 Romanian hungarians" and about 7-750,000 Romanian Secui". Secui are more than half (60%) of so called "hungarian minority". Then, religion. This is the most important division and hatred subject among "Romanian hungarians". Then, language. Secui dialect and now as it is recognized, "Secui language" this is a reality. So, tell me more about how you from Australia knows more about Secui from a Secui person. [/quote] Secui person or not the most obvious thing is you are propaganderist who aim for destruction towards Hungarian community . Unguro was also from Szekely heritage and didnt have same idea as you. You said yourself you are part Szekely if thats true but the most obvious thing you ar raised as a Romanian and brought up to hate Hungarians what reason would you have otherwise to hate them so much. Its had to trust someone like you Bonni cause you simply deny things that people know, you deny that Szekely asking for independance autonomy in their region this includes right to speak their own Hungarian language. Everything you say show me you are just propaganderist and political agent I wouldnt even be sure you are part Szekely its possible but probably as same possibility that WBB is part Arab.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Nov 8, 2007 17:48:36 GMT -5
oschi, again you are very jelous that I get along with my buddy wbb very well, I see that very clearly. There was a time when you even said that we're the same persons. I tell you now and for all, me as a secui I can't admit I would be hungarian when actually I'm romanian of secui part. If you would come in Ardeal, you would see that now all Secui thinks that are Romanians and not hungars. It's reality and not lies. Secui people simply hate hungarians for the long history...It's better to be integrated into the romanian culture, since we share the same country, beautiful Romania. you are not his buddy , you only seem to support him cause you see him as destructive to Hungarian community. you see him as divisive and you like that. your motivation is destruction towards Hungarian community. maybe you feel that way but you are out of touch with most Szekely as they are not against Hungarians and actually they are trying to get their own autonomy in Haromszek everybody knows that. It looks like you dont live amongdt Szekely but Romanians and Romanians that dont like Hungrians. no they dont , they are trying to get autonomy from Romania as I said you are in some fantasy land.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Nov 8, 2007 17:39:23 GMT -5
hahahahaa. ;D I remember onetimne youysaid your father was Hungarian who travel to Palestine so by which way are you half Arab. I know Zenta one of my best friend and drinking buddies I wont say here his name but anyway I knew him from when I was doing Hungarian dancing his family is from Zenta he was born there too. He went back for holiday and I remember even then this ws abour 15 years ago he told theree was lot of fighting between Hungarians and Serbs. Vojvodia should return to its rightful home as part of Hungary before Hapsburgs start to bring Serbs there and Kurva Frogs and Czehs give it to Serbs man after we friggin fought off the Turks from Nandifhervar/Belgrad for the Serbs you think they might be thankful and let Vojvodina back to its rightful place . it seems you just mix up Tuirkic nd mybe Artabic words with Hungarian . Maybe you met some Turks or Arabs that lived in Hungary and talk like that but its not a real dialect show how many people speak it, more thn 10 ? show me historical evidence of this dialect since Arpad times.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Nov 7, 2007 18:36:59 GMT -5
wbb is not related to Secui, which are not magyars (even the name is different). Secui are not hungarians, will not be, actually they hate magyars because they tried (without succes though) to impose another language. Bonni go and read for yourself the words to the Szekely national anthem in this they say they are Hungarian people. Bonni Szekely is a Hungarian word that means "seat" tell Me what does the word Secui mean in Romanian , exactly it has no othermeaning because its just a Romaniased version of a Hungarian word. Wake up and smell the Paprikas Bonnis Szekely are Hungarians and everybody knows that. You are in Fantasy land about Secui Bonni . Would You like I post publicly in English the Szekely national anthem.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Nov 7, 2007 18:17:53 GMT -5
His a palestinian, born in nablus. I think he mentioned once that his mother is hungarian? magyarab, first time l hear of such a thing. Do you believe that? I dont ,another Hungarian guy came here nd started speaking Arabic to WestBankBoy and he couldnt even speak Arabic. I dont believe his Arab at all, maybe I am wrong but I doubt he is. From what I read him say onetime some of his family are from Hungarian population in todays post Trianon greater/north Serbia. As for Magyaristani there is no such thing. There is no such dialect, there is no such community in Hungary by this name. West Bank Boy wants to believe there was some histotrical Turkic Muslim community that continued in Hungary its bit like a different version of the Daco-Rom continuity idea lol. He wants to believe thee is some existing community of historical Magyar Muslims and he calls them Magyaristani. He try to say they speak different language or different dialect but its pure fantaay. Sorry WestBank Boy itsjust I dont like people make in public lies about Hungary, its bad enough Superman-Bonni doers it everyday havn't you worked out yet the only reason he support you and likes you is because he believes you are destructive to Hungarian community dont be fooled by his childish appearance he is just a frustrated vlach nationalists on a keyboard but if he had any real power he woulkd be very destructive to Hungary and especially Hungarians as the Szekely. As I have said before the Muslims in Hungary whom WestBankBoy possibley are being reffred to as Magyaristani are a fairly modern community they are either converts or they are from more recent immigrants most of whom would have entered Hungary in last 20 years.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Oct 21, 2007 8:55:25 GMT -5
Hello to my Hungarian friends! I m from Bulgaria, nice to meet all of u! Now to the question: Did the Bulgars (or the protobulgarians) and the protohungarians related? I know they were both part of the avar haganate. Who do the hungarians think were their ansestors mainly? How did u keep the asian language? Is it turcik language? Which people did the hungarians assimilated through the centuries? Is it true that u re related to the Finns (and I ve heard there is a connection to the Turks also)? How did u manage to keep your language (were there any books written in Magar and when?) You were catholics through all your history. Did this help to save the language? Who lived in the teritory before u came? Do u think they contributed to the hungarian nation (genetically)? Tnx in advance! I know Bulgaria and Hungary has had good relations throughout their hystory . Tnx in advance Hello hello, I personally wouldnt be suprised. I have read some scholars believe it was from Turkic Bulgars that Hungarians aquired the Turkic words in Hungarian language. Also maybe we assimilated many Bulgars through the Onogur connection. I have read something about a historical Bulgar character Chieftan called Almysh the name sounds similiar to the Hungarian historical Chieftan Almos. Well it has been written that its somewhat of a mystery as to the absolute origins of the Magyars. Otherwise I can tell you there are a few differing points of view, for example whats sometimes called the Turanian theory looks to the old folk legends and suggests that Hungarians are descended from the Huns,Scythians, and Alans, although there are other suggestions of possible relation to other Asiatic/Turkic peoples such as the Ugyur. The modern most popular theory is the Finno-Ugric which holds that Hungarians are the descendants of a very ancients breakawat Uralic tribe that later intermixed or lived very close to Turkic and Iranian peoples and was influenced by both. Then there is the Sumerian theory that Hungarians are th descendants of Sumerians. Personally I think there is some truth in most of these ideas although the Sumerian idea sounds rather fanciful but even then supposedly Hungarian has been used to decode Sumerian writings but even so it sounds like a long bow. Despite evrything Ive heard and read on the subject which has been a lot I still feel personally mystified as to whom exactly the very first Magyar people were as soon as I would go with one idea I find it possible to consider other possibilities there is room for this range of speculation within the subject. I do believe in the idea of the Hungarian ethnogenesis so therefore I believe and accept there were a number of elements...Uralic,Scythian/Turanian/Hunnic/Turkic/,Iranian-Sumerian? /Alan/Sarmation/SakaUraka/Sabir... then of course the final layers within Karpat medenc region..Neo Danubian etc. It is quite an amazing thing that more than 10 million people still speaking Hungarian in the world today. Firstly I think that those Historians usally anti Hungarian historians who try to estimate Hungarians were as low as only 25,000 when they entered Carpathians surely must be wrong and rather the Scholars who estimate the Hungarian treibes were between 200,000 to 400,000 are more correct. There must have been a significant number of Hungarian speaking people to uphold the language amongst all the other foreign speaking peoples that surrounded and some who assimilated into Hungarian community. Hungarian is a unique language that is not very close to any known living language and not mutually intelligble with any other language even supposed closely related languages are not comprehensible to Hungarian vice versa. It depends what you mean by Asian and depends what you mean by Turkic. Even in Britain it was normal to even call Indian people as being Asian but I suppose if the Hungarian language did originate in central Asia perhaps it could be called Asian,but did it originate in Central Asia eeeem not sure but maybe, its not considered to be related to typical Asian languages like Chinese etc though there have been theorist trying to connect Hungarian somehow with nearly every language including Japanese and Korean again thats a long bow. One interesting theory is the Urlal-Altaic idea, this suggests that Hungarian is very ancient language that was like a precursor to what became the Altaic and Uralic language groups in other words that Hungarian is in fact the Mother language to what would become the Turkic languages and the Urlic languages. I think the Hungarian Scholar Fred Hamori subscribes to this view. There are definitly elements of Turkic in Hungarian . En/Ben Van/Var Alma/Elma but is there enough to call it a Turkic languge well I dont know about that perhaps we can call it a part Turkic language and or perhaps there is some truth in Ural-Altaic theory. Hungarian is not comprehensible to any Turkic or Uralic language but mainly because botyhe languages are agglutinitive its considered Hungarian could learn either language reasonably easily. All of the eastern peoples I mentioned above and then once in Carpathian Basin mostly Neo Danubian Slavs then later Kuns/Cumans, and Jasz/Iranian people, Germanics and various other European peoples. Well I have seen data that say Finns have about 25%-30% Neo Danubian genetic type and Hungarians have approx 35% Neo Danubian ... so maybe can say at that point some physical genetic similiarity as for historical relatedness I dont know the Finns were a different group to the Uralics I believe. Hungarians have between 20% to 25% Turanian genetic type so in this way they maybe related to cerain Turkic peoples. *Neo Danubian means Baltic Slav. *Turanian refers to region that encompassed the steppe and where lived many Turkic and Iranian and Scythian peoples inhabiting that area. I think first known Hungarian manuscript was around 12th century but there was earlier use of Hungarian own Runic alphabet much information was lost about the old Runic alphabet when Hungarians converted to Christianity under King Stephen. I think it politically probably helped to secure the nation and ensure the Kingdom so through that perhaps yes. But as I said certain things was lost eg old Hungarian alphabet/writing system. Mostly Slavs there is much liguistic/toponomy eveidence for this. Yes of course they did. Welcome.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Oct 20, 2007 1:05:16 GMT -5
cogratulations wbb
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Post by oszkarthehun on Nov 14, 2007 7:15:10 GMT -5
yes I warned those Muslims in Hungary lol
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Post by oszkarthehun on Mar 3, 2008 7:10:05 GMT -5
Any nations who went about empire building were some type of Imperilalists and were all involved in conquering territory. The styles were different but in this respect Ottoman Empire wasnt completly so different to what other Western Imperialist nations were doing.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Feb 25, 2008 16:47:11 GMT -5
Ok I see there are mostly 5 , what happened was I recently bought a book about Iran which listed 6 pillars and the 6th Pillar was Holy war against Infidels and to expand Islamic territories. I found a reference to it here ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Pillar_of_IslamI even have som Muslim friends whom I notice seem to subscribe to some of the more militant ideas. I find it a bit dissapointing I suppose.
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