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Post by kapetan on Oct 24, 2008 20:39:07 GMT -5
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Post by Novus Dis on Oct 24, 2008 20:53:46 GMT -5
No one touch Kapetan's post/s.
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Post by Novus Dis on Oct 24, 2008 22:20:22 GMT -5
No more racial slurs out of you. Highduke used political slurs.
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Post by kapetan on Oct 24, 2008 22:23:27 GMT -5
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Post by Novus Dis on Oct 25, 2008 8:11:00 GMT -5
Racial slur? Your race is f*ggot? LOL I used the words Serb, Vlach and f*ggot. None of which are racial slurrs moron. You are biased beyond belif. Highduke says Balija every second post. That's a "political" slur? Right, right. Balija is a political slur and only refers to Muslim "Nationalists" and the like. Now I stopped calling you "Turk" because I figured it could be defined as a racial slur so you better extend the same courtesy otherwise you will continue getting warnings and your posts will keep getting deleted. Also, "f*ggot" is a sexual slur (unless it refers to a bundle of sticks but I seriously doubt you meant to use it in that context) so its not allowed either.
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Post by SKORIC on Oct 25, 2008 15:51:25 GMT -5
We must defeat the Bosniak menace before they try to exterminate the free Serbian people of Republika Srpska. Pre-emptive strikes must be taken to secure the lives of all Orthodox men, women and children threatened by the Islamofascist hordes. An olive branch of peace to be offered to our Catholic brother as the threat we face today is greater than any Serbo-Croat conflict we have seen before. The best defense is a spectacular offense. BLASPHEMY! Catholic brothers? I think its time for you to take your Karadzic blood oath again Mister
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Post by Novus Dis on Oct 25, 2008 16:13:51 GMT -5
The Croats in Bosnia are irrelevant (they're less than 10% of the population and "Herzog-Bosna" has no real economic, historical, military or political value.)
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Post by tito on Oct 25, 2008 17:44:50 GMT -5
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Post by Arthur Kane on Oct 25, 2008 22:10:48 GMT -5
Lets assume your statement as true. That it is immoral for a person to enslave others , steal their property, and indoctrinate them into a sense of false morality or a culture of lies. I agree with this completely. Given this moral criteria , then we can say enslavement, murder , theft, and indoctrination-assimilation to cultures based on false premises are all wrong. Great. So, naturally , if these were valid moral principles then they should be universal. Do you not agree? Just like any scientific theory must be universal as a prerequisite for truth value. If it is not universal then it is just whim from an irrational justification for power over others and automatically violates the moral principles it tries endorse. Universal for whom? Universal for all human beings , at all times , in all places. Serbs or Bushmen are not exempt from this. Therefore, if you acknowledge that it is immoral to enslave, murder , or indoctrinate-assimilate , or in other words , promote violence , against other people ( i.e. groups of individuals called 'Albanians' promoting violence against groups of individuals called 'Serbs') and claim this as universal, then the same moral criteria applies to these groups of individuals called 'Serbs.' In layman's terms you consider historical peoples' marked as 'Albanians' initiating violence against historical people marked as 'Serbs' immoral yet you claim it as moral for modern people marked as 'Serbs' to initate the same violence to 'Albanians.' It is contradictory on several levels. One, no Albanian or Serb alive has anything to do with historical individuals that existed within these groups centuries ago. They are different individuals. Moral justification for violence based on perceived 'historical injustices' is just as ridiculous as me claiming that if you murder someone today your grandchildren should be executed and/or punished for your crime. That would mean children of various 'cultures' are born into 'Original Sin' which clearly has religious and mythical roots. I.e. it is not based on any reality. Collective responsibility is equally a quasi-mystical concept thats not based on any objective reality. This is artificially dividing the collective from individuals. Individuals are not derived from collectives but rather collectives are derived from individuals. A collective does not and cannot act, only individuals which comprise that collective can act. Collective responsibility is another word for externalizing costs unjustly on people who are not responsible for an individual's action. If a Serb guy in my town happened to murder someone, should all Serbs be held collectively responsible? If a Serb stole millions, should those costs be externalized to every individual Serb living on the planet today? Clearly you are encouraging Serbs to act immorally by enacting 'retribution' on others based on 'historical injustices.' But you are calling this moral when you're advocating the same thing that you're against. Such contradictory morality is dangerous and is , in my opinion , responsible for the state of the world today. It is clearly a fallacious argument to put forward that two wrongs make a right. They are lables. Any concept which reflects subjectivity ( such as values) is an aesthetic label. A group of individuals called a 'tribe' can derive its own label for a physical feature of the earth such as a river or sea , or it may derive it from another source, perhaps in popular folklore, but it is not objective. Therefore, basing morality off an inherently subjective label such as a religion , nationality , ethnicity , or culture abandons objective reality. And you are admitting as much. For you are saying a superstructure of concepts is based on a foundation of more concepts and not necessarily reality. You might want examine that position in more detail. I understand your hostility to capitalism. If I were mentally bound to archaic notions of brutish collectivism I would be ideologically opposed to the prosperity that capitalism brings. Capitalism is about the individual , not the group. Capitalism recognizes the reality that only individuals act and that the most fundamental human culture is derived from individuals interacting with each other , not collectives. Capitalism doesn't distinguish between black or white, Serb or Bosniak , it cares little for these petty-subjective differences. Interestingly, science is the same way. The scientific method doesn't care about the personal bias of the scientist or which theory he prefers. In science things are not true simply because a majority will it to be true. That is a species of religion. The scientific method is based on objectivity and conformity to reality, not myth. More power to you if you prefer a more traditional based lifestyle where petty ritual and quasi myths about culture ,ethnicity , and nationality are more readily accepted. Never mind that you enjoy the relative freedoms brought about by the modern West and capitalism such as the internet and your ability to publish a personal website with your own spin to it. I think 'betraying tribesman' is a noble trait especially if it is for the sake of affirming one's own individuality and abandoning enslavement to the tribe's Atilla and Witchdoctor. It becomes almost useless if you instead decide to replace the witchdoctor and Atilla with your own witchdoctor and Atilla. You said ' biological characteristics of Albanians and Bosniaks are evil based on heritability (word?) of behavior traits?' Can you show me where this is published in any scientific journal? Sounds more like pseudo-science to me. Biological characteristics have no moral content, they define what 'is' not what 'ought' to be. This is like saying blue eyes are moral and brown hair is immoral. Height over 190 cm tall is moral and anything below is immoral. You might also say that volcanoes are 'evil' based on their behavior of erupting and sometimes destroying human settlements. You accuse them of converting to Islam? A religion just as irrational as any branch of Christianity. They gave up worshiping one mythical being for another. They've adapted irrational Islamic rituals in place of irrational Christian rituals. Such conversion only shows the absurdity of religion because they converted out of self-interest. Perhaps any rational thinking being would given the near impossible alternatives at the time ' death or enslavement.' And what are they betraying? Culture? Traditional rituals? Nation? Christianity? So what? all of these things are based on irrational premise divorced from reality. If you go die for your 'Serb nation' you're dying for a concept shrouded in mysticism. There is no 'Serb' in reality , only individuals which call themselves 'Serbs.' Concepts do not exist in material reality. You would really be dying for a group of individuals that hold power over millions of others in the Serbian government. You're dying for individuals in power in reality. Why would you enslave yourself to the irrational whims of others which wield power? Please elaborate on why they are genetically defective and what do you mean by artificially selected? Careful , you're bordering on your own localized version of Nazism here. Also, using your own premise that most Albs and Bosniaks are really Serbs, wouldn't this make Serbs also 'genetically defective' following this chain of reasoning? If they are the same 'blood' as Serbs then that infers that they share the same DNA in which genetic information is contained. How do you rationalize Orthodox Serbs are not genetically defective and non-Orthodox Serbs are? Do you honestly believe religion has something to do with DNA? Finally, show me where this is illustrated in any scientific journal. Well first you have to prove that genetic information contained within DNA has moral character. You have to show that this is demonstrable using actual science and not pseudo-science ( i.e. publishing in scientific journals , peer reviews of the theory , etc.) If you cannot then you're just babbling. If you look at our entire genetic code , all of us have genetic markers tracing back to the first modern men nearly 60,000 years ago and have different markers , shown by mutation in the Y chromosome , going back to different 'super ancestors' across a various spans of time. Like it or not , you are related to Bushmen tribes in Eastern Africa as am I and every other human being on the planet. You have yet to define anything objective in this matter. Thanks for the advice but I'll pass. If I am interested in specific Balkan history I might take a look at it. You brought up scientific justifications for your position and I my responses were to show the errors in your 'scientific' reasoning. History is inherently subjective depending on the individual authors recording that history and must be taken with a grain of salt. Scientific analysis of natural history yields much more accurate and realistic information. Interesting. No, I want to know where you think you can get away with asserting pseudo-science as something valid. Otherwise, feel free to do the 'unmasking.' You might learn something out of it.
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Post by Novus Dis on Oct 26, 2008 2:18:36 GMT -5
I have deleted Kapetan and Givemebeer's posts for trolling. Before they (or anyone else) post something stupid, they should read my posts carefully. I have already explained in detail and given warnings, if they're illiterate then they shouldn't be here.
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 26, 2008 14:53:54 GMT -5
I am iliterate
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highduke
Amicus
Instigator / Scholar
60%
Posts: 3,687
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Post by highduke on Oct 26, 2008 15:35:27 GMT -5
Kane,
Since your're not talking to me to challenge your modern, subjective preconcieved notions about past, present & future but because you "want to know where you think you can get away with asserting pseudo-science as something valid" then let me pull the rug from under your feet:
Let's say Bosniaks and Abanians are NOT geneticaly defective and just brainwashed to such an extent that they'd justify the manner in which they came about: assimilation and cleansing of Serbs - even when confronting scans of medieval documents and the writings of Western, Albanian and Croatian scholars. If they're that far gone, then they deserve the same fate they'd deserve if they were genetically defective (see pg1 of this thread) .
Most of what you wrote above on pg2 of this thread are issues I adresed on pg1 except that you've rephrased things a little, so let me be brief:
The necessity of revenge and retribution is rooted in the notion of responsibility. Common sense should not have to be explained. The Albanians cannot expell and asimilate to attain a majority in Kosovo & W. Macedonia without there being consequences, nor can the Bosniaks just chose to disasccociate themselves from the main ethnic cosrpus after they helped the enemy to destroy it. Without consequences, there is no justice, especially when thee two groups have been pursuing the same group-strategies up to today that their ancestors did centuries ago.
Secondly, I already exlplained to you why our ethnic identities are not labels on pg1: "they reflect subtle values & paradigms which differ from group to group in places like the Balkans where traditional culture upon which those concepts rely have not been totaly decimated by Consumerism, Liberalism & Urbanization as in the West wher Modernity homogenizes people to the point where..." idiot westerners who just want to hear themselves talk cannot grasp the validity of concepts that transcend people from their own "descreet individuality". Let me elaborate in the next paragraph...
And I'm not hostile to Capitalism or even Corporations, I'm hostile to Materialism, Consumerism and Individualism because these things destroy culture which is the foundation upon which abstract Collective Ethnic identities gain their transcendent character specifically because - when accepted by a large segment of the population, these abstract Ethnic Identities gain a practical value: they promote a sense of FAMILY between ethnic kinsmen based on a COMMON CULTURE and the COMMON MENTALITY it engenders, resulting in happier families and more meaningful social relations by actually repressing selfish instincts that make us think of ourselves as "discreet individuals. "
When CULTURE is shared by the masses AND the business sector combined, and social harmony is maintained by a government that puts CULTURE ahead of the individualistic impulses of both groups, people are happier and mentally & physically healthier.
The bottom line is this: the Modernistic 'philosphy' with which you percieve the world and yoursef in it is not a philosophy at all. It's a banal, dilettant, sick, perverted NEUROSIS because it's practical application has resulted in a polarized multi-ethnic society of cultureless, technocratic, tv-addicted, morbidly obese, divorced population of "discreet individuals" ruled by ethnic & economic Special Interest Groups; a society which is dying out from a low birthrate and constantly needs to be replenished by 3rd World immigrants because it has lapsed into selfishness & destroyed its own Culture based on common religion and ethnicity.
So whatever self-satisfying drivel you feel to state below, always know that what's written in the above paragraph is you Achiles' Heel.
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Post by tito on Oct 26, 2008 15:55:20 GMT -5
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Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
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Post by Zvone on Oct 26, 2008 16:21:34 GMT -5
Actually they control most of the economy. Plus, you misspelled Herceg. The only irrelevant people are the illiterate, sto si ti pajdo.
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Post by bob1389 on Oct 26, 2008 18:25:54 GMT -5
We must defeat the Bosniak menace before they try to exterminate the free Serbian people of Republika Srpska. Pre-emptive strikes must be taken to secure the lives of all Orthodox men, women and children threatened by the Islamofascist hordes. An olive branch of peace to be offered to our Catholic brother as the threat we face today is greater than any Serbo-Croat conflict we have seen before. The best defense is a spectacular offense. BLASPHEMY! Catholic brothers? I think its time for you to take your Karadzic blood oath again Mister It's the lesser of two evils I guess. ...Actuallly the Cros are pretty damn evil too... I dunno now btw I take that blood oath 5 times a day, that's how hardcore I am (I INJECT IT IN MY EYES!!!)
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Post by kapetan on Oct 26, 2008 18:34:38 GMT -5
Judging stricly by historical actions in the last 100 years, you have a hell of a lot more reason to hate Croats then us.
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Post by tito on Oct 26, 2008 19:01:48 GMT -5
Actually they control most of the economy. That’s just BS since ALL of the Croat cantons are so economically underdeveloped that they depend on the aid from the 3 main Bosniak cantons.
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Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
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Post by Zvone on Oct 26, 2008 19:31:00 GMT -5
Please, without Medjugorje and Neum BiH would be severely underfunded. The only underdeveloped part of Herceg-Bosna is the east side of Mostar. Everything from trade to banks depend on Croats. That is the only reason why they have so much say yet number so few.
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Post by tito on Oct 26, 2008 19:42:11 GMT -5
Please, without Medjugorje and Neum BiH would be severely underfunded. The only underdeveloped part of Herceg-Bosna is the east side of Mostar. Everything from trade to banks depend on Croats. That is the only reason why they have so much say yet number so few. ;D LOL!! The only reason they have Anything to say is Titos idea of having of constitutional people(which ironically was abolished by Croats in Croatia 1991 where the Serbs had 12% like the Croats in BiH today). 65% budžeta FBiH finansira Sarajevo, Tuzla i Zenica 19.08.2008 Ponovljene primjedbe da se iz budžeta Federacije BiH ne vodi dovoljna briga o kantonima s hrvatskom veæinom, a koje sve više dobivaju na znaèaju s približavanjem lokalnih izbora, bile su razlog za pravljenje posebne analize prihoda i rashoda po svakom kantonu. Dokument koji je u posjedu "Dnevnog avaza", a s kojim æe uskoro biti upoznata i Vlada FBiH, otkriva šokantne èinjenice o finansijskim tokovima unutar Federacije. Tako se èak 36 posto svih prihoda koji dolaze u budžet Federacije BiH finansira iz Sarajevskog kantona, u koji se potom, kroz razne projekte, transfere i ostale vrste investicija iz federalnog budžeta, vraæa samo 9 procenata novca! Uz Sarajevski, glavni finansijeri budžeta FBiH su Tuzlanski sa 16 i Zenièko-dobojski kanton sa 13 posto ukupno naplaæenog novca za Federaciju, a kojima se vraæa 10, odnosno 11 procenata. Potpuno je drugaèija slika s dijelovima FBiH koji uporno mimo matematièkih pokazatelja tvrde da su nepravedno zaobiðeni u raspodjeli novca iz budžeta FBiH. Najradikalniji je primjer[glow=red,2,300]Hercegovaèko-neretvanskog [/glow]kantona, u koji se s nivoa FBiH izdvaja 20 posto od ukupnog budžeta, mada on u prihodima participira s 8 procenata. I inaèe, upravo uz ovaj kanton se i veže najviše federalnih rashoda, u prošloj godini više od 32 miliona KM, koliko zbirno dobiju [glow=red,2,300]Livanjski, Zapadnohercegovaèki i Srednjobosanski[/glow] kanton. Ako se izuzmu [glow=red,2,300]Posavski[/glow] i Bosanskopodrinjski kanton, kao podruèja od posebnog interesa, mnogo više novca od onoga koji ulaže u budžet FBiH transferira se Livanjskom kantonu. = ALL of the Croat cantons are so economically underdeveloped that they depend on the aid from the 3 main Bosniak cantons!
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Post by kapetan on Oct 26, 2008 20:27:47 GMT -5
Sarajevo is the single biggest maker of tourist money in BiH. It dwarfs all others. Not neum. But I love how you say neum as if it's somehow "yours" and not Bosnia's. Your mentality is feeble. Nothing Bosnian is yours. Seeing as how you're not even from the country.
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