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Post by radovic on Sept 25, 2008 10:11:13 GMT -5
Silajdzic samo cacka mecku ko Alija onomad. Posle ce da ide da place kod velikog brata USA i kod manjeg brata Saudijske Arabije. I have always said it and will continue to do so. Our big advantage is that the serbs seam to understimate us. Somthing they did in the last war- there was talks at the start of 1992 amongst cetnik leaders in srebrenica that Bosnia could be captured and bosniak muslims killed/deported to turkey at a cost of around 5,000-8,000 cetnik soldiers and so they began with the dissarmament of the local population in 1992- from small hunting rifles and pistols under the pretex of protecting bosnia from some "mujahedins", eventhough there wasnt a single arab in the area of eastern Bosnia throughout the war. Bullshit. Who exactly said this?
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Post by radovic on Sept 25, 2008 10:15:23 GMT -5
Zaboravio si da su i Srbija i Republika Srpska bile pod embargom. Yeah, and you guys needed to get new weapons, since it is not like the old "JNA" did not turn into the VRS in 1991? Anyways, people like Silajdzic are not doing us any good, he is making the RS stronger, now the Serbs will say "dodik is saving us from the evil muslims" and he will get more votes, and since Bosniacs all think that someone cares about the Genocide that took place they will all vote for SBiH just since Siklajdzic made this stupid statments...Dodik and Silajdzic both are just mafia, they both stole what used to belong to the pre war RBiH, they sell of our companies.. Dodik wants to prostitute him self out to russia, Silajdzic to the west and saudies... they are both not doing us any good, SNSD and SBiH top members live like kings, and people are stupid engouh to vote for them since they bring up the war.. Are you a communist? Of course they will sell what belonged to the RBiH before the war because every thing now is pretty much worthless, Bosnia for years had more important things to worry about -- i.e. settling refugees, rebuilding infrastructure, feeding it's people and a sale of these assets would occur if therwe was no war anyways. Why should the state control these assets when the state absolutely sucks at running any eneterprise.
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Post by divingfalcon on Sept 25, 2008 10:56:08 GMT -5
A cetnik leaders in srebrenica in 1992 said it to my uncle and he told him to leave Bosnia.
Even the great leader Karadzic said Bosniak muslims cant defend themselves and our people might not exist (nestati). Come on, it is obvious serbs underestimated the peoples desire to self defense and they thought itd be a walk over.
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Post by radovic on Sept 25, 2008 13:32:15 GMT -5
A cetnik leaders in srebrenica in 1992 said it to my uncle and he told him to leave Bosnia. Even the great leader Karadzic said Bosniak muslims cant defend themselves and our people might not exist (nestati). Come on, it is obvious serbs underestimated the peoples desire to self defense and they thought itd be a walk over. So unnamed leader said soemthing to your uncle and you accept this as fact. And I've heard people claim 1 million Serbs+ were kiled in Jasenovac, that doesn't make it fact. Anyways, given that the Serbs in 92 had more arms then needed for 8000 men clearly your statement is bullshit.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 25, 2008 13:34:33 GMT -5
Most military "experts" and other figures predicted it would last a few days at the most....
Thanks to people like Sefer Halilovic that didnt happen, cuz he saw it coming and prepared at least SOME defense. good book about him called Seferovo Ratno Doba.
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Post by radovic on Sept 25, 2008 13:41:04 GMT -5
Most military "experts" and other figures predicted it would last a few days at the most.... Thanks to people like Sefer Halilovic that didnt happen, cuz he saw it coming and prepared at least SOME defense. good book about him called Seferovo Ratno Doba. Sight this, please provide a source.
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Sept 25, 2008 13:44:56 GMT -5
A cetnik leaders in srebrenica in 1992 said it to my uncle and he told him to leave Bosnia. Even the great leader Karadzic said Bosniak muslims cant defend themselves and our people might not exist (nestati). Come on, it is obvious serbs underestimated the peoples desire to self defense and they thought itd be a walk over. Kakvi su to cetnici ako su pustili tvog ujaka zivog i jos mu davali savete? *pretpostavljam da ti je ujak musliman
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Post by kapetan on Sept 25, 2008 13:54:28 GMT -5
Most military "experts" and other figures predicted it would last a few days at the most.... Thanks to people like Sefer Halilovic that didnt happen, cuz he saw it coming and prepared at least SOME defense. good book about him called Seferovo Ratno Doba. Sight this, please provide a source. No, I don't want to waste an hour to dig up obscure examples of people saying that in 1992. It was simmilar to how people said the Iraq War would be over in a few hours or days even faster then the first one. Or did you mean about Sefer making preperations, cuz that's a well known thing and can be looked up anywhere. Like I said it's a good book, read it if you care. Seferovo Ratno Doba.
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Post by radovic on Sept 25, 2008 14:20:36 GMT -5
Sight this, please provide a source. No, I don't want to waste an hour to dig up obscure examples of people saying that in 1992. It was simmilar to how people said the Iraq War would be over in a few hours or days even faster then the first one. Or did you mean about Sefer making preperations, cuz that's a well known thing and can be looked up anywhere. Like I said it's a good book, read it if you care. Seferovo Ratno Doba. Except actually military personnel weren't saying that. The people the media took out were hired to say crap like that. Actually, if you look at it both the people who made the claims you make and the Iraq war claims were correct. It lasted a few weeks to achieve their objectives, they weren't prepared for insurgencies or retaliations.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 25, 2008 14:24:57 GMT -5
No, I don't want to waste an hour to dig up obscure examples of people saying that in 1992. It was simmilar to how people said the Iraq War would be over in a few hours or days even faster then the first one. Or did you mean about Sefer making preperations, cuz that's a well known thing and can be looked up anywhere. Like I said it's a good book, read it if you care. Seferovo Ratno Doba. Except actually military personnel weren't saying that. The people the media took out were hired to say crap like that. Actually, if you look at it both the people who made the claims you make and the Iraq war claims were correct. It lasted a few weeks to achieve their objectives, they weren't prepared for insurgencies or retaliations. Lol I seriosly wouldn't put the Bosnian Army and the Bosnian Croat forces on the level of a "Iraqi insurgency" against the Serbs who won in the fitst week. If anything serbs underpreformed. We, who were expected to do nothing much, fought you to a stalemate and some might say even won. Only good thing that came out of it for you was the entity within Bosnia.
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Post by radovic on Sept 25, 2008 14:53:15 GMT -5
Except actually military personnel weren't saying that. The people the media took out were hired to say crap like that. Actually, if you look at it both the people who made the claims you make and the Iraq war claims were correct. It lasted a few weeks to achieve their objectives, they weren't prepared for insurgencies or retaliations. Lol I seriosly wouldn't put the Bosnian Army and the Bosnian Croat forces on the level of a "Iraqi insurgency" against the Serbs who won in the fitst week. If anything serbs underpreformed. We, who were expected to do nothing much, fought you to a stalemate and some might say even won. Only good thing that came out of it for you was the entity within Bosnia. What stalemeate? If one actually looks the objectives stated by Karadzic, he wanted control of approximately 65%-70% of Bosnia. For the bhalk of the war he had this territory and if you weren't aware the RS didn't know from spring of 1992 to spring of 1995 the RS did not engage in any combat to obtain more territories or to regain lost territories. If anything is a stalemate it is the end result of the war. Neither the serbs achieved there objectives and neither did the Bosniaks. [Bosnia is not a unitary state dominated by Bosniaks, and despite RS becoming institutionalized into BiH they are still part of BiH]
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Demonel
Amicus
I am Jack's regained insanity.
Posts: 833
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Post by Demonel on Sept 25, 2008 17:35:12 GMT -5
29. septembar operacija "Vrbas 92" August 1993. operacija "Sadejstvo 93" 4. septembra 1994 operacija "Breza 94" Operacija Koridor je naziv za vojnu operaciju srpskih snaga u ljeto 1992. godine u Bosanskoj Posavini èiji cilj je bio uspostavljanje kopnene veze izmeðu zapadnog i istoènog dijela tzv. Srpske Republike BiH.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 25, 2008 21:31:36 GMT -5
Lol I seriosly wouldn't put the Bosnian Army and the Bosnian Croat forces on the level of a "Iraqi insurgency" against the Serbs who won in the fitst week. If anything serbs underpreformed. We, who were expected to do nothing much, fought you to a stalemate and some might say even won. Only good thing that came out of it for you was the entity within Bosnia. What stalemeate? If one actually looks the objectives stated by Karadzic, he wanted control of approximately 65%-70% of Bosnia. For the bhalk of the war he had this territory and if you weren't aware the RS didn't know from spring of 1992 to spring of 1995 the RS did not engage in any combat to obtain more territories or to regain lost territories. If anything is a stalemate it is the end result of the war. Neither the serbs achieved there objectives and neither did the Bosniaks. [Bosnia is not a unitary state dominated by Bosniaks, and despite RS becoming institutionalized into BiH they are still part of BiH] Ej, lets not play dumb. You have to be in serious denial not to see what I'm saying. You know exactly what I'm talking about. The whole affair was nothing but one crap fest that has left a really, really bad taste in the mouths of Serbs for a long time, and put you on the wrong end of everything that's happend since. A nation that has the image of genocidal war mongers. We were outnumbered, and vastly outgunned and out matched at first military wise. Our army was born out of necessity, on the ground, with most of the soldiers being nothing but doctors and teachers and other civilians who picked up a gun cuz they had to. BY ALL ACCOUNTS we should've folded like a deck of cards and been CRUSHED. COMPLETLY AND UTTERLY. You seriosly need to study the military history of this conflict, every bit. It is ridiculous what kind of heart we mustered. Love us or hate us, that is undeniable. In other words we were the biggest underdog on Earth at that point. You had every advantage. Our successes: Nobody wiped us out like they constantly threatened, we are not a minority, we are stronger then ever, Bosnia is not part of Yugoslavia or any greater Serbian state, it is independant country. We were taking back teritory at a rapid rate in the second half and beating you almost everywhere. It's just fact. We were looked at as pathetic and helpless at first and then a little later it was pretty much equal or in favor for us. Banja Luka, the RS capital only didn't fall because of US intervention. They litteraly said stop. We did. Your success: You got RS which is 49%, but still nothing but an entity within Bosnia. You effectivly got most non-Serb elements out of the teritory of what is now RS. So yes, you for someone who had all that going for them, you didn't really do much in the end. We can easily claim a victory as a people, just due to the fact of succesfully holding our own and not losing. See I can respect the Serbs for always fighting for what they see as their right or whatever, I can respect that and I do. But I don't see an ounce of that from you guys for any of us. Croats, Bsniaks, Albanians, nothing. We deserve it though, all 3 fought hard as fuck especialy us and Croats since Kosovo wasn't on that level.
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Post by vinjak on Sept 25, 2008 21:38:44 GMT -5
Oh man I really dont know how many times this must be said. Understand once and for all this was not a war of total victory if it had been and in the early months you all would have been wiped out if that was the goal it was acheivable. It was never the Freakin goal it was hold as much territory to have the bargaining in your favour. Dont you ask yourself why there where many cease fires ? dont you think the Bosnian Serbs knew with every cease fire you could reorganize etc LOL cmon think a little. But I don't see an ounce of that from you guys for any of us. You are wrong there was and is tremendous respect for the fight you put up from people who where there and did the fighting the ones who did not fight but watched or where not born are the ones that will show no respect, quite simply it was not you that beat us but a 3rd party and that created and still has the effect of lingering what ifs.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 25, 2008 21:43:28 GMT -5
Oh man I really dont know how many times this must be said. Understand once and for all this was not a war of total victory if it had been and in the early months you all would have been wiped out if that was the goal it was acheivable. It was never the Freakin goal it was hold as much territory to have the bargaining in your favour. Dont you ask yourself why there where many cease fires ? dont you think the Bosnian Serbs knew with every cease fire you could reorganize etc LOL cmon think a little. Yes, yes, nobody, and I really mean nobody had the idea about pretty much cleansing Bosnia of Muslims. Tons of people just said it for kicks. Even cetnik leaders in WW2 had it written in their journals. Just for kicks. No, no instead your goal WAS to be in the situation you are in today, which is horrible. Deadlock. Yup this is what you fought and died for. That sound "logical" to you?
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Post by vinjak on Sept 25, 2008 21:45:30 GMT -5
Different people probably had different goals and maybe the goals changed as the war progressed and different mobs got involved but what I am saying to you is that the main goal at least in the beggining was what I wrote.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 25, 2008 21:48:10 GMT -5
Different people perobably had different goals what I am saying to you is that the main goal at least in the beggining was what I wrote. And is today's situation in your favor? I wouldn't say so. The Serbs have few friends. But like I said at the end of my big post, it was about survival for us as a people and nation and alot of other things and we achieved them all. And again, I do have respect for Serb fighting spirit, normal soldiers, not mass murderers. Where as you guys give us NO credit what so ever, when you damn well know nobody expected this war to end like that. Karadzic himself always bragged about wiping us out and how we would get nothing. And here we are stronger then ever since then. Either way, plenty of victories for us, and overall one big stalemate in alot of ways.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 25, 2008 21:51:48 GMT -5
It is simmilar to the Vietnam War where the US technicly should've and expected to completly fuck their shit up. But it didn't exactly go as planned and many would say Vietnam won just by not losing to the bigger force.
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Post by karabin on Sept 25, 2008 23:32:47 GMT -5
LOL,
these guys are still convinced that Serbs one day woke up and thought to themselves: "Oh jeez we are so bored s**tless today, what could we do for fun? Hmm then Cedo goes to say: Hey we could kill our muslim countrymen just for kicks because you know what boys, we are hardcore cetniks (all serbs) and bad to the bone"
Stop victimizing yourselves. You are the ones who declared independence which was absurd to begin with. What was declared independent? Bosnia? With three major ethnic groups, three leaders, three ideas/goals...etc When I hear Bosnia declaring independence straight away I think to myself... WTF, a Republic that is subdivided is declaring independence? At no cost? Who will rule over these ethnic groups?
Now we go back to Karadzic's famous speech and quite often it is misinterpreted and misused for political reasons. Here is the speech quoted form wikipedia:
You want to take Bosnia and Herzegovina down the same highway to hell and suffering that Slovenia and Croatia are travelling. Do not think that you will not lead Bosnia and Herzegovina into hell, and do not think that you will not perhaps lead the Muslim people into annihilation, because the Muslims cannot defend themelves if there is war - How will you prevent everyone from being killed in Bosnia and Herzegovina?
Notice that the last part has been mistranslated and that crucial parts of the speech are missing. This is propaganda at its best.
Here is his original speech:
Ovo nije dobro sto vi radite. Ovo je put na koji vi hocete da izvezete Bosnu I Hercegovinu ista ona autostrada pakla i stradanja kojem su prosle Slovenia i hrvatska. Nemoj te da mislit da necete odvest Bosnu i Hercegovinu u pakao a muslimanski narod mozda u nestanak. Kako ce te vi sprijeciti da svak svakoga ne ubija u Bosni i Hercegovini. Vi ovde hocete u evropi da ispostujete nesto nasta nemate pravo.
In the last two centences he says: How will you prevent people from killing each other in bosnia & herzegovina. Here in Europe, you are trying to achieve something that you are not entitled to.
These last two sentences are very important in his speech as he warns the Bosnian Muslim leaders about a move that is not achievable without the outbreak of a war. Unfortunately they are frequently either left out or mistranslated to make it seem nothing more but a statement of aggression towards the bosnian people rather than a warning.
Bosnain muslims and their leadership are hardly innocent. They had planned this way before the war so the only people buying into this "oh lookie here poor us. We knew nothing. We were just standing here doing nothing and Serbs were bored and wanted to exterminate us" is they themselves.
Now I am not against bosnian muslims. I do not blame them alone for the war. It takes two to tango. War could have been avoided yet to the politicians it seemed the best solution. Just before some of you start judging me, I have bosnian muslims in my family. My first and therefore closest cousins from my father's and mother's side are half bosnian muslims.
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Post by divingfalcon on Sept 25, 2008 23:58:18 GMT -5
A cetnik leaders in srebrenica in 1992 said it to my uncle and he told him to leave Bosnia. Even the great leader Karadzic said Bosniak muslims cant defend themselves and our people might not exist (nestati). Come on, it is obvious serbs underestimated the peoples desire to self defense and they thought itd be a walk over. So unnamed leader said soemthing to your uncle and you accept this as fact. And I've heard people claim 1 million Serbs+ were kiled in Jasenovac, that doesn't make it fact. Anyways, given that the Serbs in 92 had more arms then needed for 8000 men clearly your statement is bulls**t. im talking about 8000 dead serb soldiers to kill and get rid/deport of Bosnian Muslims
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