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Post by givemebeer on Oct 11, 2008 6:27:33 GMT -5
LoL, my post turned into other posts about crimes from medieval times... nuttjobbs...
genocide in the defense of orthodoxy ;D
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 11, 2008 6:37:49 GMT -5
Albquietman "Cameria was a region in Northern Greece populated mostly by Albanian Muslims. These Muslims suffered the most cruellest atrocities during their ethnic cleansing by Greek Fascists" ---------------------------------------------------------------- Albquietman we have a problem here. First of all, we have do define the word "Fascist". What I know from history, Fascist in 1944 were the Nazis and their allies. Do you know something different from the Albanian education you took? I'm really interesting.. To continue, Nazis and their ALLIES!!... include Chamerians! Now... you cannot describe as "Fascist killed Chamerians". Your sentence must say "Greek gorillas against Fascism killed Fascist Chamerians". It seems more appropriate with the common use of the word "Fascists" all over the world. How can the gorillas of Napoleon Zervas who were hunting down Nazis and their allies during WW2, and it is normally accepted ALL over the world.... can be fascists??!! To remind you one more time.... Fascists were the Nazis and their allies... That is what I know.... Am I wrong with my description on the word "Fascists Chamerians".... ? I would love to hear how Albanian education system describe Fascism in WW2...
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Post by albquietman on Oct 11, 2008 21:36:15 GMT -5
Basil, first of all it wasn't me that called fascists Zervas and company, but the author of the website that I got the quote from, and I don't think he got Albanian education like me... On the other hand what does it matter if they were fascists, communists or democrats? We're talking about atrocities here, and the reason that I mention the chams its wasn't because they are of albanian origin, but to complete the picture and to tell you that it wasn't surprise for me that greeks have their own part on Srebenica's massacre, because history tells us that they have done it before. And as I said, it doesn't matter if they were fascists or not, and it doesn't matter if you call them gorillas or whatever, but what matters is their actions. Chams fascists? Well, as I said before there got to be a reason to justify your actions, and that's the best you could come up back then. But and if we suppose that chams were fascists, I don't think that the kids and women that got killed by Zervas were fascists too...or they were? How about the women that were raped? Depends how you see it...according to greek standards you are not. But if you use a little common sense, you are wrong...
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 11, 2008 23:05:52 GMT -5
Albquietman... lets discuss over this issue. I am a socialist... and I dislike fascists. My home is in Thessaloniki. Lets say... somebody occupies Thessaloniki... lets say Fyromians since its their dream . I have a family as neighbors. An Albanian family as neighbors. I see that Albanian neighbor taking the part of Fyromian occupiers and helps them to execute Thessalonikians and burn villages around Thessaloniki. I see that Albanian neighbor taking food from the Fyromian occupier and my children die from starvation. I see this Albanian neighbor humiliate me and my kids for all the years of occupation. Suddenly... the Fyromian occupiers loose the war.. and go back in their country. Now the critical question; Do I need to be fascist or a human monster for what will follow when I see my neighbor the next morning after the retreat of the Fyromian army? ....so simple.. Every reasonable person knows the answer. PS. By the way... there was no genocide and you know that very well. Chamerians just knew what will follow... and escaped by leaving back everything. Now they want in money what they left back. That is all about. I have posted above for Srebrenica. Since there is NOT EVEN ONE evidence for a killing of civilian from a Greek volunteer... we're loosing our time on this issue. If you bring me at least one Greek who killed one baby or raped one woman... I will be the first who's gonna kill him. I just dont like American (or American protectorat type of)propaganda
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Post by kartadolofonos on Oct 11, 2008 23:14:43 GMT -5
Albanians of all ideological persuasions joined Mussolini and Adolf Hitler in their Balkan adventures. conscripts, many of whom had previously committed atrocities against the Greek civilian population in Epirus under the armor of the Wehrmacht and SS. Sixty-two thousand Albanians eagerly marched into Greece with Mussolini's blue shirts. In their enthusiasm, the commanders of the Albanian brigades, Drini and Dajti, requested the "honor" of crossing the Greek borders first. Many prominent communists, among them Ramiz Alia, (secretary general of the Communist Party) started their careers as fascists. Omer Nishani, first president of communist Albania, had fashioned himself as the theoretician of fascism. They have launched murderous attacks against Greek villages and have carried out looting and confiscation of properties. The high point of their collaboration with the fascists was their assault against Fanari in August 1943 where they burned down 30 villages, killed 500 Greeks and held another 500 as hostages." Albanian newspaper Bashkimit Kombit (the official publication of then pro-German Tirana regime). The publication proudly announces the success of the February 1944 campaign and takes stock of the degree of destruction: 25,000 homes were set ablaze and 100,000 Greeks were left homeless. German forces and their fascist ally Balli Kombaetar (Albanian National Front), GreekJews from Ioannina were seized, thrown into concentration camps
"Revenge will Come for the Fascist Chams"
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Post by Teuta1975 on Oct 11, 2008 23:20:27 GMT -5
Basil, this discussion is not that easy and especially because we seem to mix up two main issues here: 1. when talking about Chams you most probably haven't seen some horrible videos of atrocities carried by Greeks and I wish you don't see them for are sad. The people who spoke were the survivors. They were normal people, women and so forth. But Chams' issue is a different story and we can open another thread (again ) and discuss about it. 2. While about Serbrenica and Kosovo...it is not an issue even for those volunteers (Greeks) who went to fight in the Region; it is something bigger. It is about Greek Government that hid the information about what was happening and sheltered the most wanted criminal, who indeed, had performed atrocities...he has no connection whatsoever with the Cham issue. The problem is the Greeks, who were so brainwashed that looking at those videos, they seem quite to declare: "America copela mou is the guilty one", without even giving an explanation why those victims were killed from Serbs. Not that they didn't want to give any explanation, but media and Greek Government had misinformed or brainwashed them.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Oct 11, 2008 23:26:19 GMT -5
Almost forgot....
something tells me that when someone realizes to have done something wrong, needs to hide it or keep it in secret. If you watched three videos carefully, you would understand what was needed to be kept in secret...
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Post by albquietman on Oct 11, 2008 23:41:37 GMT -5
Basil, we can make up scenarios like the one you just made up, but in real life it doesn't happen. Your scenario is not even close to what happened to chams. Talking about the killings and raping, it's not us albanians that mention them, but the international media, and it happened Basil. The problem here is that at least once in your life you've got to admit that what happened it's true, and not trying to tell us that people left voluntarily from Greece because of some rotten apples. It just doesn't make sense...
But anyway, as Teuta said, we're talking about the Srebenica massacre, and the participation of the greeks there. The couple of hundreds of greek that participated were the tip of the iceberg. The whole iceberg was the the brainwashing effect of the greek media, the non-sense religious analysis that made people to not see further than their noses, when innocent people were getting killed there just because they weren't christian orthodox...does this ring a bell...sure it must, the dark-ages, the christian crusades. That's what I think is pathetic, in 20th century, most people in Greece have still a dark age mentality...don't you think it's scary?
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Oct 11, 2008 23:54:20 GMT -5
The Albanians with their Kanun laws are very straightforward modern thinking people..
Everyone in the Balkans is stuck in the dark ages..stop picking on Greeks....
Albania would/did the same thing if the roles were reversed.... 75 million people died WW2...more than 250 thousand Greeks..... I live with that and I can certainly live to whatever happened to the Chams..get over it... we Chiotes did of our own misfortune.. we even have daily excursions to Smyrna...
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Post by albquietman on Oct 11, 2008 23:59:51 GMT -5
Kanaris, how are you doing You're right about Balkans, and I'm not saying that we albaians are better than the others, but we never fought someone because of religion...we never done such thing...
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Oct 12, 2008 0:15:44 GMT -5
I am doing fine... we have a holiday weekend it's Thanksgiving Day here this Monday... the wife is gonna cook the turkey tomorrow...
Okay..so you guys are not strong followers of the faith or religion but you got other things to replace it..like I said the Kanun laws and besa... you give your besa ,you screw someone, it could cost you your life... or worse you can spend your entire life sitting inside your home of fear. There is always something...
Greeks don't really use religion as something to believe in God..don't forget the whole notion of the orthodox faith and the Byzantine emperors was that they were a type of warriors popes .... using faith and religion to wage wars on others and praying that they come out winners... You have seen Greek priests blessing Apache helicopters... blessing them to be better killing machines....you have seen the icons with the sword wielding saints... Serbia and Greece were/are joined at the hip... you would never get the general Greek public to go against them in favor of someone who is Muslim..no matter how you see it... or the world... Greece was ready and willing to help a country who's in their eyes was a friend... at whatever expense.
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Post by kartadolofonos on Oct 12, 2008 0:20:25 GMT -5
Cham issue non Existed !!!The most and only victims here are the Northern Epirotes and Epirotes. Crimes committed during WWII against the Greek civilian population of Epirus by collaborationist Albanian Cham forces. The Chams they have launched murderous attacks, atrocities, destruction:25,000 homes were set ablaze and 100,000 Greeks were left homeless against the Greek civilian population in Epirus ,Greek villages and have carried out looting and confiscation of Greek properties under the armor of the Wehrmacht and SS.Fascist ally Balli Kombætar (Albanian National Front), .Cham Fascist deported the Greek Jewish from Epirus dutifully presented their "trophies" to the German commanders. GreekJews from Ioannina were seized, thrown into concentration camps.
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 12, 2008 0:29:54 GMT -5
Teuta "It is about Greek Government that hid the information about what was happening and sheltered the most wanted criminal, who indeed, had performed atrocities" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- teuta... its all about that; "the most wanted criminal"...for WHO? Thats the key point. We live in the same neighborhood with Arabs for 2000 years. We NEVER had a problem even though we're fanatic Christians and they're fanatic Muslims. WE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM. On the contrary... WE LIKE THEM and THEY LIKE US. Do you know why? Because of respect we had to each other. We never tried to take their oils and their pride. Suddenly... Arabs have become the "world criminals" and the "axis of evil" for the Americans. No honey... I will not play their game I'm sure Serbs commited crimes. I'm sure that Bosnians and Croates commited crimes too. As far as I see Americans blaiming ONLY the Serbs... I swear to God.. I will defend them. For sure.. I will not play America's game. I cant! I'm Greek and I was born free. I will never become a protectorat of America. Thats for sure! Better dead than protectorat. its all about that... sooo simple. I'm not a puppet.
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 12, 2008 0:42:08 GMT -5
Albquietman "when innocent people were getting killed there just because they weren't christian orthodox...does this ring a bell...sure it must" -------------------------------------------------------------- Yougoslavia was one among the more advanced countries of Commounist Block. Lets say... they were wrong. Dont you hear those bells ringing when you saw American F-16's bombing the city of Belgrade, bombing all the infrastracture, bombing and killing INNOCENT civilians just because they didnt like American plans for Balkans and they werent AngloSaxon white Catholiks? Albqueitman you know very well what is going on in this world. America bombed so easily Serbia... WITHOUT the agreement of UN.... and silmoutaneously they NEVER bombed Turkey for the occupation of Cyrpous even if UN has ORDERED Turkey to get off 30 years ago!. Also they have bombed Iraq some days after they occupied Kuweit.. Its all about Pax Americana. Dont wait from me to accept any of their plans. Its all fake. You know it... I know it. I will not play that game as I told. I'm not a puppet. I belong to the Hellenic tribes for God's name! For Glory and Pride... I'm ready to loose everything... but "Glory and Pride" will be my last words.
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Post by albquietman on Oct 12, 2008 0:42:45 GMT -5
I am doing fine... we have a holiday weekend it's Thanksgiving Day here this Monday... the wife is gonna cook the turkey tomorrow... Okay..so you guys are not strong followers of the faith or religion but you got other things to replace it..like I said the Kanun laws and besa... you give your besa ,you screw someone, it could cost you your life... or worse you can spend your entire life sitting inside your home of fear. There is always something... Greeks don't really use religion as something to believe in God..don't forget the whole notion of the orthodox faith and the Byzantine emperors was that they were a type of warriors popes .... using faith and religion to wage wars on others and praying that they come out winners... You have seen Greek priests blessing Apache helicopters... blessing them to be better killing machines....you have seen the icons with the sword wielding saints... Serbia and Greece were/are joined at the hip... you would never get the general Greek public to go against them in favor of someone who is Muslim..no matter how you see it... or the world... Greece was ready and willing to help a country who's in their eyes was a friend... at whatever expense. Hope you guys have a good time tomorrow. It's a long weekend here too, Columbus Day, but only for the state employees and schools, not for the rest of us that work in the private sector Back to the topic...kanun laws were efective, and still are, in North Albania, not in the whole country, and not from the part of Albania where I'm from, South Albania. So you can't generalize something that happens in only one part of the country. Yes, besa is different, and it is not to get confused with kanun. Besa is part of the kanun, but kanun is not part of besa...no wonder even you greeks use it as a word at least. On the other hand, even the worst of our customs, mentality if you will, the kanun can not be compared with the effect of the religion to you. As you said, in the name of religion you can kill, you don't care if this is your neighbor as long as he/she is not christian. I know, I'm exaggerating a little, but basically that what happened in the past...I hope it won't happen again, because there is something more important than religion, kanun and everything else, it's the human life...
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Post by kartadolofonos on Oct 12, 2008 1:01:24 GMT -5
dont speak about religion dikc heaaads
Albanians are not angels
Arab-Muslim volunteers USA ,Nato and UN joined the Islamic terrorist groups Jihad +UCK all together in Kosovo to slaughter the Serbian Population ... thats fact here... !!!!
Kosovo : mass grave containing Serbian bodies killed by ethnic Albanian rebels KLA-UCK during the war.
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Post by albquietman on Oct 12, 2008 1:06:15 GMT -5
Albquietman "when innocent people were getting killed there just because they weren't christian orthodox...does this ring a bell...sure it must" -------------------------------------------------------------- Yougoslavia was one among the more advanced countries of Commounist Block. Lets say... they were wrong. Dont you hear those bells ringing when you saw American F-16's bombing the city of Belgrade, bombing all the infrastracture, bombing and killing INNOCENT civilians just because they didnt like American plans for Balkans and they werent AngloSaxon white Catholiks? Albqueitman you know very well what is going on in this world. America bombed so easily Serbia... WITHOUT the agreement of UN.... and silmoutaneously they NEVER bombed Turkey for the occupation of Cyrpous even if UN has ORDERED Turkey to get off 30 years ago!. Also they have bombed Iraq some days after they occupied Kuweit.. Its all about Pax Americana. Dont wait from me to accept any of their plans. Its all fake. You know it... I know it. I will not play that game as I told. I'm not a puppet. I belong to the Hellenic tribes for God's name! For Glory and Pride... I'm ready to loose everything... but "Glory and Pride" will be my last words. Basil, I know you hate America, but to tell you the truth, I'm a little confused, because if we go back in history, if it wasn't for America and England, your country Greece would had been a small and poor version of Russia, and I'm supposing that you know what I'm talking about. EAM, with the help of the russians of course, almost took over Greece, and it was americans and british and the negotiations between them that made possible the installation of democracy in Greece. This is the history, and not only that. The Marshall Plan poured a lot of money in the impoverished Greece back then...and I'm supposing again that you know that too. Anyway, what surprises me the most in your post is the fact that you never mentioned the crimes that serbs committed in Bosnia and Kosovo, but only the NATO bombing of Belgrade, which it was against the military installations and not against the civilians. The serbs on purpose targeted the civilians, as you may know, but seems like your radar didn't catch that... Cyprus is another story, and as I have heard when I was in Greece, by the greeks, it was greek's fault what happened in Cyprus...that's what I heard, but I'll check on that... And by the way, America is a superpower, and of course it will act like that. Greece would have done the same if it was a superpower...it's human nature...
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 12, 2008 6:36:55 GMT -5
I know that America did some good things for Greece back in the 40's. Dont forget what we did for them; We sacrifised 1/6 of our population in order to say NO to Germany and Italy.. 2 superpowers that time. We could have say YES as they did in Bulgaria, Hungary, Albania, or we could say "come on friends, use our land" like they did in Holland, as they did in Louxembourg, as they did in Belgium, in Portougal, and other small countries. Since what we did for the interests of the AnglosSaxons... was big for our power. Listen... I'm not a "blind" American-hater. I dont hate American people. I hate the specific White AngloSaxon Protestants elite of US. They are the Greek and EU haters today... and that is why they have become a hostile country.. for our point of view ofcourse. And I tell you once again. I dont excuse Serbs and their crimes. But I denounce the idea to deal with their crimes as far as there is not equivelant crime hunting for all the crimes of that war. I have seen even American movies presenting Serbs as "bad" terrorists against the free Western World. Come on..! lol lol I'm not a product of Hollywood mate.. Serbs..? They were the more advanced ex-commies... and now they have become "terrorists".... and the Moujahentins in Bosnia with their bourgas.. were the "fighters for liberty"??!! I dont play that game. It has nothing to do with the crimes. Thats a game a mass propaganda of US against people who dont accept the US plans for the Balkans. Albquietman, dont forget that you're not a part of that AngloSaxon White Protestan mafia. Today you have common interests with US. As we used to have sometime. In the future... you may be the next "terrorists" for Americans. As far as they find people to play their games in Balkans... all of us in Balkans.... one after the other... we'll become "terrorists" at some point of our life... A simple NO to their demand... and automaticaly you become a "terorist". Are you sure that Albanian will always say "yes" for the rest of you life..? Have you ever thought that you maybe the next victim of the WASP's? At least you know that Greek people will be at your side in such a case.. That is why you need us as neighbors. We have pride and ethics.. and you know that. Maybe we'll be the last ones who are gonna help you when the WAPS hunting you down as "terrorists"...
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Post by Duke John on Oct 12, 2008 7:05:14 GMT -5
It was very interesting to read greeks reactions, none of the greeks here condemned the greek part of srebrenica, instead of condemning you defended them and judgeing from your posts you feel full righteous for thous greeks who massacred the Srebrenica muslims,and i was shocked to see some of you say someting like this: If Greeks did such things, they only did it in defense of the Orthodox Christians and Churches who where being persecuted and burnt. Kid you need help^ is that your defence mechanism? you are psychologically sick! Just to let your ignorant sick brain to know that the first video is not Albanians!(you must feel stupid now) The second video is from March,2004 when serbs drowned Albanian kids in Ibar river, that triggered the happening on that video, at that time there was no serbs in that area, Ethnic albanians attacked stones and bricks in revenge, attacking stones and bricks was stupid, they should have attacked thous bastard who drowned thous kids in Ibar river.
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Post by Arxileas on Oct 12, 2008 7:17:17 GMT -5
Since none evidence was provided for this so called "Greeks ethnic cleansing" We have no other option but to move it to the right sub forums....
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