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Post by Kassandros on Mar 27, 2008 19:20:08 GMT -5
Rex "vetoes .....?? you guys making to much vetoes and not enough Recognition (ksva)" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To whom??? This is our first veto... and it goes to Fyrom... not a very serious country for talks..not a very serious country that Nato or EU will miss something from.. America maybe... but not the rest of Europe... "they gift you with eu and nato and you are abusing your powers for supposed just histories" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ gift? Rex... when you loose 1/6 of your population during the WW2 being on the wright side..... and supplying their freezing countries with fruits and vacations.... I dont thing is a gift.. Its a must. I dont believe Americans from Chicago... gave a gift to Florida people by accepting them into US. The other way around I suppose.. "thats not what eu/nato is for ...." --------------------------------------------------- Dont mix nato and eu. Two different things. Nato is US... EU is the hard core 6-7 countries including Greece. Two tottaly different things. The first one is about cow-boys... the second one is about culture and civilization. Believe me... the serious countries of EU (of course I dont speak about the Americans protectorats like Holland, Denmark, UK, Poland)... will not miss the artificial state of Fyrom. "becareful bcs one day ,,,,you never know... " ------------------------------------------------------------- If that day comes... and Fyromians or other Balkanoids full of hate and communist propaganda will be the ones who will judge us... believe me again... I would not want to be part of their game. As far as I am out of this stupidity... I'm happy. I will veto myself if I had to compromise with the New Balkanoid mentality..
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Post by Niklianos on Mar 27, 2008 21:40:23 GMT -5
^exactly .... thats why I keep telling the Greeks that its mac slav books and tv programs that need changing ....not the geographic name ... but they dont understand.. Believe me we do understand that and I have been saying that all along! BUT the name is just the first step to stopping their propaganda. If they lose use of the name then other around the world will stop recognizing them as 'Macedonian' and start calling them whatever new name they decide on. This will lead to the end of their propaganda since they will have no recognition with the term 'Macedonian'.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Mar 28, 2008 9:23:25 GMT -5
Actually there was a secret plan by Millosevic in the early 90'. He was willing to give Alb a piece of Kosovo, was going to move the serb population of FYROM near the greek borders Also he said to greek foreign minister at the time Samaras, to ask Alb and give a part of North Epirus to Greece. Mitsotakis lost his colour when heard this proposition.... If this happened; Indipendent Kosovo would not exist, neither FYROM problem. Im afraid maybe FYROM goverment has made its mind to divide the country....and give to alb a small piece. If there will be no division, they will turn to us and see us as allies....who knows.... Too bad it would never had worked. There were never serbians in fyrom (except probably some thousands in the northwest), just Bulgarians.
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Post by ilirdardani on Mar 28, 2008 13:33:21 GMT -5
ioan is right, I agree with him. Serbians can claim all they want that Macedonians (or fyromians, whatever makes your feel better) are part Serbian but in reality they are Bulgarian, mixed with Greek and Albanian (illyrian, etc). But mostly they kept the Bulgarian language, with some changes of course through the times, but they're close to the Bulgars.
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Post by julius on Mar 28, 2008 14:22:42 GMT -5
Well, Milosevic was crazy. He said that he would move the population to greek borders. Now what population and from where, i didnt get any explanation. It would be very crazy indeed. Kosova wouldnt be a free state as today.
News about the "name" issue: USA are backing FYROM and the ball is to be played from Greece. Also back than, i saw in tv that greeks offered to bye the name of FYROM. They didnt accept.... Its seem so strange to me this whole thing....
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 28, 2008 14:37:21 GMT -5
It's not so strange...Greece in the beginning didn't want no name whatsoever that included the word "Macedonia" in it.... now we have bent... to allow names like 'new macedonia".....
Of course the Americans are going to support Fyrom..... they want them to send more troops to Iraq and Afghanistan... and as well as destabilize the whole region..... Look what Kosovo has created...Tibet..Taiwan... want out too now...one way of fighting China... behind the lines..... as well as creating a Muslim state in the middle of Europe.....
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Post by ilirdardani on Mar 28, 2008 14:56:56 GMT -5
Tibet, Taiwan had their struggle way before the conflict in Kosovo. You know that Kanaris right?
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Post by julius on Mar 28, 2008 15:16:05 GMT -5
Come on man, be more serious...Tibet got inspired from Kosova?? I found it very strange because greek offered them the solution - to buy their name for 1 miliard dollars. And Fyrom didnt accept. Some of them were expelled from Greece right directly after WWII if im not mistaken. So with the money they would be compesated. Its both strange and difficult to understand...back then in early 90' why didnt they accept?? No USA back then, no allies... Before and during the embargo the same.... I think everyone should pay more attention to what they really saying or asking. U cant fight this hard for a myth...its ...strange.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 28, 2008 16:35:27 GMT -5
It's been going on for years..but don't you find it strange..that the same month Kosovo goes, these guys act up?Why do I need to explain this to you?
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Post by julius on Mar 28, 2008 19:42:00 GMT -5
Guys, I need a sincere answer: Do u really feel that Greece have the right to veto FYROM?
Dont confound using veto and being right. U maybe are right on the name, but moraly is it right to use veto on them?
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Post by Kastorianos on Mar 29, 2008 8:05:59 GMT -5
Greece can do it because it would otherwise have to deal with this new member as Republic of Makedonia, so it is also morally correct.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 29, 2008 9:04:32 GMT -5
I want you to give me a sincere answer...
What difference it would make if dirt poor countries with smashed up infrastructures... and corrupt Govts. if they are in Nato or not? What do they have to offer? Let's be sincere..here now.... what does Fyrom have to offer the international community? This goes deeper....... Yugoslavia should have never broken up..... now we got all these useless boring midgit countries.... which remind me of chihuahuas barking.... what a mess.....
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Post by julius on Mar 29, 2008 10:18:36 GMT -5
Okay Im going to be the bad guy, just for the fun of it....
As it seems USA wants more FYROM to be in NATO than support Greece. Actually, what have Greece to offer in NATO? Protests, pressure from greek people in every action NATO takes, thats what they got from Greece. FYROM entry is a simbolic one. They acomplish in all three countries a pro NATO and USA block. Also, FYROM are slavs so its a hit on serb support in future and russian interests in the region too. If Greece stands firm on their current position, USA can push Turkey to enter EU in the future. And if this happens, Greece loses its strategical, geografical and political position in Balcans. Now Greece has some troubles with Turkey too, about the sea waters. But Greece cant do this to Turkey, they choose to mess with FYROm only. Its a kind of artificial problem in American's point of view.
Now about the morallity of the veto. The money on NATo comes 90% from USA. Greece has agreed on this when they entered. So if was me to give money on something, I dont want anyone to mess with that, and also judge me about what im doing. If u want to solve something, dont do it using the rights I offer u. Its a problem regarding two parts only. Solve it if u want, just dont mess with NATO rights.
About Yugo, it was an artificial creature and has proved many damages (like wars) in the region. Also denied a lot of rights people should have. About Greece now, its a new reallity they have to deal with. And this reallity in Balcans is a stronger Albania, a stable FYROM and all neighbours are in pro western position and aspirations. In other words they want to have and enjoy what Greece has done in at least 20 years. The first step accepting this new reallity was recognising Kosova's indepenence. And Greece has failed to do so until now.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 29, 2008 11:06:31 GMT -5
You are forgetting something J...... but I will give you a refresher course..... flashback to 1940..WW2.... Greece is lined up with the allies.... strategically very important..... over 100,000 Greeks perish.... but we put one hell of a fight up..... before and after via the resistance..... Europe and Nato don't forget that event.... Greece gets in the E.U. 28 years ago being dirt poor....and all other major institutions..... what has the rif raf around us done to better humanity and avoid speaking German today?
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Post by julius on Mar 29, 2008 11:31:21 GMT -5
Im not forgeting anything. Im telling that something might happen. And myself, im not keen on Turkey in EU. Europe is tendind to forget about wars. France and Germany are allies. England with USA too. But u should move, and quickly...
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Kanaris
Amicus
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 29, 2008 11:33:35 GMT -5
Well... we will see..we are in a better position than ever....
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Post by julius on Mar 29, 2008 12:04:44 GMT -5
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Post by Kastorianos on Mar 29, 2008 12:32:10 GMT -5
Julius mathimata na pas na doseis stous dikous sou, eisai poli mikros na krineis esi tin thesi tis Ellas kai na dineis simwoules alvanouli. Simwoules stous dikous sou, ekei pou einai i thesi sou.
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Post by Kassandros on Mar 29, 2008 15:00:57 GMT -5
Kastoriane o Joulious sygekrimena den einai kanas kollimenos Turkalvanos. Megalose Ellada kai exei kai soi Elliniko. Kserei kala tin koltoura twn Ellinon kai as min to paradehetai o politismenos tropos pou symperiferetai sto forum to deihnei afto. Asheta an symfonoume i diafonoume me kapoia apo afta pou leei... nomizo oti kai oi dyo mas protimoume na milame me tetoious "Alvanous" para me tous Turkomongolous stin voreia Alvania. Min ton katataseis me aftous.
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Post by Kastorianos on Mar 29, 2008 17:34:20 GMT -5
Ean einai politismenos kai echei kai elliniko soi ti thelei na mas diksei edo diladi otan milaei kata tis Elladas, na mas paiksei ton oudetero archaggelo pou kserei kai krinei ton kathena kai ta panta? Me enochlei o asafis tropos me ton opoion parousiazetai edo, mia iper ton simferonton tis Ellados mia kata, tora ti dialo ton enochlei ean i Ellada walei veto ta skopia, na po oti ipostirikse alvanika simferonta tha elega ntaksei...alla ta skopia? Ti paei na apodiksei diladi pos einai me to meros ton alvanon edo gia na ton agapisoun san diko tous? An agapaei kai tous dio laous opos dilonei as simperiferthei antistoicha.
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