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Post by albquietman on Jan 27, 2008 18:15:15 GMT -5
Good Job Teuta Areianos, I don't get the point of bringing here some names from Ellis Island records. But I guess you're trying to show us that all these people, that declared themselves greeks, who by the way strange enough have muslim names, but are still greek, were greeks and the areas where they came from...what a logic? Do you have any idea where are these places you mentioned? And if you do, have you ever been there? If not, go there and tell these people what you're telling us here, and see what you'll get as a response...
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Post by Arxileas on Jan 27, 2008 18:15:43 GMT -5
Source to Kastriotis’s letters any comments to the indisputable evidence of Epirus being nothing more than Greek ? or I take it that you're Trolling ?
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Post by areianos on Jan 27, 2008 18:17:01 GMT -5
Good Job Teuta Areianos, I don't get the point of bringing here some names from Ellis Island records. But I guess you're trying to show us that all these people, that declared themselves greeks, who by the way strange enough have muslim names, but are still greek, were greeks and the areas where they came from...what a logic? Do you have any idea where are these places you mentioned? And if you do, have you ever been there? If not, go there and tell these people what you're telling us here, and see what you'll get as a response... It is possible that these people are Islamised Greeks that viewed their territory as Greek. Afterall, it is Epirus we are talking about here.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jan 27, 2008 18:18:54 GMT -5
That's a big issue to conclude. They feel hellenic because is their choice to follow a better civilisation and to try to be identified with it. But that's not exactly what they are; only what they want to be!
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Post by albquietman on Jan 27, 2008 18:19:22 GMT -5
But it's not possible that these people are albanians...lol, you guys are funny.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 27, 2008 18:20:20 GMT -5
Maybe BBB..or Bibleriot..can point me in the right direction to find info on Albanians from 100 to 1200 ad..... other than some mention in the timeline of 1150 ad... there's not much out there that I can find.... I have brought this up many times and I get the usual answers ...... I think it's a valid question..on why the Albanians stayed out of the spotlight and out of everyone's way... then all of a sudden when the Ottomans came.... the 'big bang' happened.... please someone throw me a bone..I am tired of asking this question.....
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Post by areianos on Jan 27, 2008 18:34:16 GMT -5
But it's not possible that these people are albanians...lol, you guys are funny. How could this be; it defies logic, they would claim their land is Albanian, would they not ? - like the others that have self determinated as Albanian. No reason to wiggle out of something you can not, dear!
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Post by albquietman on Jan 27, 2008 18:37:06 GMT -5
There are old documents that mention albanians. Teuta just posted one of them, but you guys always choose to ignore them...and by the way, the notion of nation wasn't born back then. Even you greeks didn't called yourselves greeks or hellenes back then, but romei...
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jan 27, 2008 18:38:52 GMT -5
Thank you AlbQ,
I'll retake this issue when I get back...coffee time now ;D
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Post by areianos on Jan 27, 2008 18:39:14 GMT -5
Bi lingual Greeks in Latin & Greek self determinated themselves as Graiko not Romoii
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Post by Arxileas on Jan 27, 2008 18:48:18 GMT -5
There are old documents that mention albanians. Teuta just posted one of them, but you guys always choose to ignore them... Quite the oposite on the ignoring part. There has to be some sort of original document that we can examine to which we have been waiting for a long time to see a reliable source of this document as not to damage Albanians reputation if Kastriotis states that his elders were....Epirotes it's quite damaging to your cause don't you think ? As we know the Epirotes are Greek and always have been. Epirus is Greek.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 27, 2008 18:52:53 GMT -5
Okay we were Romie.... no problem and don't become so sensitive... I just want to further enrich my knowledge of Albanians..what is wrong with that?
Stop throwing rocks back at me.... just give me the facts.. show me or lead me like I was a 5 year old to where all this data is..
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Post by albanesehoney on Jan 27, 2008 22:15:01 GMT -5
Sorry, we claim Hector and Priam as our own but Achilles? lolol..Albanians don't hide in horse's ass to fight our enemy, especially if we're paid to fight them as mercernaries. Also, we don't fight for egotistical asses who love themselves more than their people...no price is sufficient to fight for a jackass like agamemnon. Too bad achilles didn't kill him first. But the city he comes from Larrisa, is ours, as well as Dodona and Amadthia..and Mollosia, Chaonia and Thesprotians...heck, even Sparta was not known as greeks. lolol. None of them were known as greek in 1400bc.. So areackas, put that in your pipe...and stuff it up your.....cuz, those people were not greeks..no matter what name that blind supposed ' greek ' homer called him or those people.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jan 27, 2008 22:23:16 GMT -5
Good Point Canaris, there is where we should start. What was it during 100 BC and 1200 AD. Here is what I could find (when I have more I'll post it) Is in Italian, and there is a desriptive history of Albanians by the Italian Dr. Giovanni Armillotta (translation may not be perfect since is mine): 168aC- 165aC I Romani catturano Re Gent e lo inviano a Roma 165aC- 285dC Dominio romano 285- V SEC Alle dipendenze di Bisanzio: Dopo la suddivisione dell'Impero romano operata da Diocleziano, imperatore di origine albanese, la regione chiamata oggi Albania era allora distinta in: Prævalitana (tra le bocche di Cattaro e lo Shkumbini) e Epirus Nova (fino a sud del golfo di Vlorë). V SEC- X SEC Invasioni di Goti, Slavi, Àvari, Serbi, Bulgari; Riconquista Bizantina XI SEC- XII SEC Consolidamento di Bisanzio; adozione nel 1081 dell nome Albania Sviluppo nei contatti con l'Italia (Amalfi, Napoli, Venezia) XIII SEC- XIII SEC Grande influenza veneziana 1204- 1358 Despotia d'Epiro (rafforzamento delle alleanze con l'Occidente, prosecuzione positiva delle guerre di liberazione contro Serbi e Bulgari) 1358- 1395 Regno albanese della famiglia Thopia (Carlo, Giorgio, Elena) 1395- 1474 Regno albanese della famiglia Kastrioti (Costantino, Giorgio "Skënderbeu", Giovanni) 1444 - Lega dei Popoli Albanesi ad Alessio (Lezhë), guidata da Skënderbeu comprendente i territori di: Kosova, Metohia, Novi Bazar, Dibër, Ohrid, Gianina, Arta 1468 - Morte di Skënderbeu: fine della Lega di Alessio 1474- 1478 Alla Repubblica di Venezia 1478-79-28/11/1912 Dominio ottomano (Caduta di Krujë e Shkodër). Molti Albanesi fuggono in Italia meridionale e creano le comunità gli arbëresh. TRASNSL. What cought my attention is the following: Note: (AC=BC; DC=AD) 168aC- 165aC The Romans capturerd the King Gent and sent him to Rome 165aC- 285dC Roman Dominance 285- V SEC Under Byzant: after the division of Roman Empire carried out by Diocleziano, Emperor of Albanian Origine the region called today Albania was divided as follows: Prævalitana (between Cattaro and Shkumbini) and Epirus Nova (New Epirus) 'till of the socalled Vlora's bay V SEC- X SEC Invasion of Gots, Slavs, Avars, Serbs and Bulgarians. The Byzantin Conquering XI SEC- XII SEC Byzant consolidation; adaption of 1081 of name Albania Developement because of the contacts with Italy,(Amalfi, Napoli, Venezia) XIII SEC- XIII SEC Huge Venetian Influence 1204- 1358 Despotat of Epirus (reinforcement off allies with the Oxident and positive prosecution of liberation wars against Serbs and Bulgars) (maybe I don't know to translate it...see the original) 1358- 1395 The Albanian kingdoom of Thopia's family (Carlo, Giorgio, Elena) 1395- 1474 The Albanian Kingdoom of Kastrioti's family (Costantino, Giorgio "Skënderbeu", Giovanni) 1444 - League of Albanian's people of (Lezhë), guided by Skënderbeu included the following territories: Kosova, Novi Bazar, Dibër, Ohrid, Gianina, Arta 1468 - Death of Skenderbeu = End of Lezha's league 1474- 1478 Under Venetian Republic 1478-79-28/11/1912 Otoman Dominium (the fall of Krujë and Shkodër). Many Albanians escape to Meridional Italy and create the Arveresh Community. For the sake of historical truth, I am just asking: 1. he stated that the adaption of Albanian name happened as of 1081 but before that he mentioned that Dioclecianos (285-V) was Albanian! 2. with the arrival of Slavs there is no Albanians arrival mentioned 3. See carefully which areas were included in Albanian League olf Lezhe (Kosovo, Shkodra etc.) That's how he presents history...Is he wrong? I'll search more if I can find something but is hard because one must see the archives of Vatican (since Alb. region was under Roman Empire)...and because I am interested more than you re: this issue. (when I was in Rome, they didn't let me even approach at Vatican's walls, let alone have access to the library...lol...)
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Post by albquietman on Jan 27, 2008 22:30:27 GMT -5
It is mentioned here several times by different albanian members and backed up with reliable sources like the ones Teuta just posted, but here we go again, you need sources again...well, except this forum we've got other things to do, not just posting all over again the same things...Epirus is not greek, the name might be greek, but that doesn't mean anything, it's just a geographic name like Mesopotamia in Irak...why don't you guys claim Mesopotamia too since it has a greek name? Might be some greeks-irakians there...
As I said greek was the "lingua franca" back then, so there are some places in Europe (even the name Europe itself) of greek origin, but that doesn't mean where you see a greek name must be greek people living there...
We're not denying the fact that there some people of greek origin in South Albania, but they moved in the area around 1000-1200 ad, and that doesn't make them ancients to the area, because there were albanians there before them. Most of these greeks were farmers and worked for the albanian feudals in the area, that's what they have told us at least, and this is the truth...of course you can choose to not believe it as always...
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Post by areianos on Jan 27, 2008 22:38:18 GMT -5
No albquietman, they did not move 1000-1200 ad....when the Latin Crusaders invaded Peloponesos. Guess which Greeks migrated to the despotate of Epirus. Once again, you folk are full of fantasies!
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jan 27, 2008 22:42:46 GMT -5
No, I am not. Because I can't. That's how was presented to me back then...my fault...I was so excited by the content of this letter that didn't ask for the source I think you're wrong here. Is Albanians who are struggling here since Greeks and Romans have covered everything with their shadow pertinent to Balkans. One can find quotes for Albanians only in separate annals (such as juridical documents and so on) But it takes time and having acess to places where I can't go. Anyway, if you really were interested in this issue, you could even bother yourself and search as I do when I read for Greeks/ Thank you in advance, T.
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Post by albquietman on Jan 27, 2008 22:46:04 GMT -5
No albquietman, they did not move 1000-1200 ad....when the Latin Crusaders invaded Peloponesos. Guess which Greeks migrated to the despotate of Epirus. Once again, you folk are full of fantasies! We can't say that we don't have fantasies, but not on this stuff, because we're not claiming any part of Greece despite the fact that we have reasons to do so...we save our fantasies for much better stuff than this...no wonder Albania's birthrate is the highest in Europe
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Post by areianos on Jan 27, 2008 22:47:23 GMT -5
Highest crime rate too.
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Post by albquietman on Jan 27, 2008 22:52:10 GMT -5
Well, every country has more or less crime, so does Albania too...but that doesn't affect our fantasies
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