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Post by kasso on Jan 25, 2008 7:10:42 GMT -5
Alexander the Great had Illyrian stock. His father was partly Illyrian and his mother was fully Illyrian.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 25, 2008 8:01:12 GMT -5
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Post by kasso on Jan 25, 2008 8:15:07 GMT -5
You can't hide the truth anymore.
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Post by kasso on Jan 25, 2008 9:09:13 GMT -5
Why do you claim that Skanderbeg was Greek?
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Post by jerryspringer on Jan 25, 2008 10:38:13 GMT -5
Why do you claim that Skanderbeg was Greek? I believe it was him and his people that claimed to be Greek.
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Post by BibleRiot on Jan 25, 2008 16:15:54 GMT -5
Wow ... just imagine if it had been Illyrian culture that Alex III had borne across the Middle East, Egypt and Asia. Errr ... wait a sec ... come to think of it .... would it actually make any difference if Kasso was right? Any difference at all? Anymore than if Napoleon's family was Greek, Italian or Corsican? Go on Kasso -- tell us what difference it would make if what you're saying was right ...
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Post by kasso on Jan 25, 2008 16:55:51 GMT -5
no difference at all, except that Greeks are thick-minded, they can't recognize the truth, the origin and ethnic purity is what Greeks are most sensitive about
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Post by leandros nikon on Jan 25, 2008 17:31:19 GMT -5
i dont have to tolerate this nonsense!!!
HIS ORIGIN FROM BOTH OF HIS PARENTS WAS GREEK!
His father was an Argead and a Heraclid with origins from Argos in Peloponisos while his mother was an Aeacid Molossian Epirote with origins from Aegina island near Athens and Thessaly...
wait kaso,until BBB comes and hell eat you alive!!!
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jan 25, 2008 17:56:12 GMT -5
I don't want to argue on this. I have just heard that Aleks' mother was somehow weird...she used to worship snakes....has anyone heard of it?
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Post by albanesehoney on Jan 25, 2008 23:03:29 GMT -5
I don't want to argue on this. I have just heard that Aleks' mother was somehow weird...she used to worship snakes....has anyone heard of it? Yes, quite the religion in the past. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_(symbolism)Greek mythology See also: Dragons in Greek mythology Serpents figured prominently in archaic Greek myths. According to some sources, Ophion ("serpent", a.k.a. Ophioneus), ruled the world with Eurynome before the two of them were cast down by Cronus and Rhea. The oracles of the Ancient Greeks were said to have been the continuation of the tradition begun with the worship of the Egyptian cobra goddess, Wadjet. Olympias, the mother of Alexander the Great and a princess of the primitive land of Epirus, had the reputation of a snake-handler, and it was in serpent form that Zeus was said to have fathered Alexander upon her; tame snakes were still to be found at Macedonian Pella in the 2nd century AD (Lucian, Alexander the false prophet) and at Ostia a bas-relief shows paired coiled serpents flanking a dressed altar, symbols or embodiments of the Lares of the household, worthy of veneration (Veyne 1987 illus p 211). www.bdancer.com/history/BDhist2a.htmlII. A WORLD HISTORY OF ORIENTAL DANCE ANCIENT GREECE AND MACEDONIA Lilian Lawler, an eminent Greek scholar, noted that the Greeks have participated in esoteric religious rites which included dancing throughout their history. The rites of Dionysus and Bacchus have been most commented upon, but there were many more deities, especially those which pertained to fertility. At the shrine of the goddess Artemis in southern Greece, choruses of young girls sang and danced in her honor. In Sparta, girls and young women came to the shrine of Artemis and performed unrestrained, ecstatic dances to the goddess wearing "only one chiton", that is what was normally their underdress. In connection with the temple of Artemis at Ephesus, in Asia Minor, there is mention of mysteries in which maiden priestesses engaged in "ecstatic dances". At Ancyra, also in Asia Minor, it is said that women performed dances likened to "Bacchic orgies" in both the cults of Artemis and the Goddess Athena as well.
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Post by albanesehoney on Jan 25, 2008 23:11:26 GMT -5
THE CULT OF ZEUS IN ANCIENT EPIRUS
Chryseis Tzouvara-Souli
The purpose of our communication is to give a multidimensional presentation of the cult of Zeus in Ancient Epirus from the prehistoric to the post-ancient times based both on the literary and epigraphic evidence and the archaeological data.
It follows that the main place of the cult of Zeus in Epirus is the sanctuary and oracle of Dodona which was the religious and political centre of the Epirote people.
From Dodona the cult of Zeus as spread to all Epirotic tribes from the Ambracian sea to the northern Aoos river and also beyond the borders of ancient Epirus to the adjacent areas as well ass to Athens and Magna Graecia and Sicily.
The factors contributing to the diffusion of the Epirotic cult in these areas should be sought in the vicinity with these regions, the geographic position of Epirus, the socio-politic situations and the broader religious policy of the Molossian kings, Alexander I and Pyrrhus.
Concurrently, we will point out the peculiarities of the cult, its ritual character and we will refer to the worshipping adjectives of Zeus.
Finally, the imperial cult, after the glorification of the Roman Emperors and the equation of Adrianus as Zeus of Dodona (Dodonaeus) in Nicopolis, echoes another dimension of the Zeus’s cult and states its importance and effect created to the Roman Emperors. ALBANIAN MYTHOLOGY by Jonathan Michael
Ilitia
Ilitia or Eilitia, a daughter of Zeus and Hera, was sent by her mother to all women who gave birth, in order to help them through these difficult and decisive moments. In the Albanian mosaic called Beauty of Durrës and elsewhere, she is represented as a young girl surrounded by an ocean of flowers and carrying a lighted torch symbolising the new-born child. Ilitia was the universal metaphor of survival, writes the Albanian archaeologist Moikom Zeqo, who discovered the identity of the goddess shown in the Durrës mosaic, the contrary of death and oblivion.
Ilitia is the main representative of the Auras, goddesses of the air. They look like pagan angels with their wings on their shoulders, and they are all surrounded by flowers.
According to Barbara Walker, Ilithyia or Eileithyia is the epithet of the Great Goddess in her function of the divine midwife. During birth, women prayed to her as the liberator who freed the child from the womb.
Demeter
The veneration of this well-known goddess of the earth, with her mystery plays in Eleusis, was also quite common in Illyria. Albanologists claim that her name has to do with the Albanian word dhe, earth. Demeter, also called Damater, is thus literally Mother Earth, what describes exactly her role. It also corresponds to the Illyrian myth of creation, where the Earth as the basis of life gives birth to everything.
There is an inscription found near Plovdiv, Bulgaria, dedicated to Demeter, which, according to the albanologist Eqrem Çabej, can best be explained by means of the Albanian language derived from the Illyrian. It is a formula of Demeter’s cult, the cult of the Earth seen as universal mother, and means: Earth, hold me / hold on to me! I invite you to try out this part of spirituality rooted in ancient Albania. Pronounce or sing these magical words, if possible outside, in touch with Mother Earth. Use it as a prayer or a mantra, as a guideline of your meditation, in order to come back to earth from your spiritual flights or when you are stressed, in order to feel better that we all are a part of this globe and to feel the security and power that emanates from the Earth. Be careful: these words may have strong effects.
The ritual words of Demeter’s cult are: DA DALEME.
Melissa
We find the echo of matriarchy in the figure of Melissa and in the legend of the place of her union with the god of the sea, a maritime cult place, writes Zeqo about the foundation of the town of Durrës. Her worship was very popular among the Illyrian inhabitants of the town and its surroundings.
The legend tells that in a place called Melisonion, a certain Melissa was seduced by the god of the sea, Redon in Illyrian, and then gave birth to Durrah, one of the legendary founders of the seaport. Melissa, according to Appian, was the daughter of Epidamn, the first founder of the town. However, Melissa is more than just a simple girl. Zeqo adds that Melissa is the Greek word for bee, an animal which figures on old Illyrian coins, and calls her a nymph. Here we must bear in mind the fact that during the process of ideological patriarchalisation, female goddesses and divinities, in order to be replaced by male gods, either became a negative image (like the holy snake, which represents wisdom and the forces of the earth and which played a predominant role in Illyrian mythology) or were downgraded and thus denied importance. According to Walker, Melissa or queen bee was the title of Aphrodite’s Highest Priestess. Also the above mentioned Demeter was connected with bees, the honey-producing animals. Honey, a female-associated substance, besides its sweet and healing qualities, was considered as a substance for resurrection magic and is linked with rituals of many peoples’ mythologies. As for Aphrodite, originally she was not only the love goddess, but the threefold Great Goddess, the trinity of virgin, mother and old woman. She was said to be older than time and ruled the world according to matriarchal natural law.
These data throw a different light on the status of Melissa. We may even speculate about the Melisonion as being originally the place of a hieros gamos (holy wedding) ritual, where the union of the Goddess and the sea god created a town on the meeting point of land and sea, linking these two spheres.
By the way, Melissa tea, especially if you add honey, is a very healthy drink, calming you down and having a healing effect on a large scale of symptoms.
Diana
Every year in early spring, the German town of Heidelberg celebrates in a symbolical way the victory of spring over the winter king, who has to die and is burnt, represented by a straw puppet. This event is called Summer Day reminding a time where people distinguished only between two seasons, the cold and the warm one. The same day, with the same name Summer Day, is also celebrated in Albania, especially in the Central Albanian town of Elbasan. Here, however, the celebration is hold in the honour of the goddess Diana.
Diana or Artemis was a goddess of highest importance in Illyria. Her adoration shows the still relatively strong matriarchal character of Illyrian society. Near Elbasan there was a temple of Diana, marking the accomplished transition between Illyrian paganism in natural temples without walls and roofs (for example the Melisonion) and the classical Roman and Greek paganism with their built temples.
It is said that Diana took over the functions of a local goddess of vegetation and fertility and the seasons. Originally, however, Diana was not only the pretty virgin who goes hunting in the woods, but a representation of the Great Goddess, too, the trinity of the moon virgin, the mother of all beings and the destroying hunter.
Ika
It seems that Ika, a nymph or better river-related goddess with the attributes of Aphrodite, is the favorite goddess of many an Albanian nowadays, because in modern Albanian ika means I went away, I left...
Silke Blumbach
Main sources:
Barbara G. Walker, Das geheime Wissen der Frauen, München: dtv, 41997
Moikom Zeqo, Motive arkeologjike dhe shkrime të tjera, Tirana: 8
Nëntori, 1990.
Moikom Zeqo, Panteoni ilir, Tirana: Globus R, 1995.
Civilizations the world over have developed and perpetuated myths as a means of explaining natural phenomena and the mysteries of life and death itself. Though widely unknown, Albanian Mythology holds an intriguing blend of tales and legends, most dating back to the pagan beliefs of Ancient Illyria. Others have incorporated more blends of fictional beings addressing the many complexities of morality, good, and evil. At the beginning reside the Illyrian divinities of nature, constructed by our ancestors as a means of comprehending the world which surrounded them.
Many pan-cultural influences can be noted in some Albanian mythological characters. The lubi, --a monster holding the head of a lion, body of a goat, and tail of a serpent—is to the Greeks a chimera, while the ghostly kukuth holds similar powers to the Slavic vila. Even a variation of the very English Tom Thumb can be noted as resting akin to the Albanian tale of Kacilmic. Such similarities also exist between Illyrian Gods and Goddesses with those of other cultures. The Illyrian Goddess Diana, accompanied by a female goat (alb. dhia goat), was directly adopted by the Romans and holds a host of qualities to the Greek’s Artemus. Other divinities remained highly local. Enji, the God of fire (Agni in India), Surd, the God of weather, and Bindus that of water, were all creations of Illyrian reverence to the awesome powers of nature. Goddesses such as Medauras and Prema were held as the supreme beings to heal ailments and spawn fertility. Strangely, unlike the mythology of others, the Albanian strain developed without the cosmogenic view of how the world was created, nor the eschatological prophecies of how the world would end, and remained firmly terrestrial and centered on those things that could be touched or felt firsthand. The advent of Christian and Islamic lore brought belief in such deities to the end of their epoch in Albania and elsewhere. Myths such as Persius saving Andromeda from the Hydra for the most part were replaced by related religious ventures such as Saint George saving the princess of Sylene from being sacrificed to the dragon. If not for the work of such astronomers as Ptolemy Llagos of Illyria, who placed such stories literally into the heavens through the naming of constellations, such mythology would be even less recalled today.
Supplementing the acts of the Gods and Goddesses rests the mythology of the common man and the world?s evil they must face. Albanian Mythology is filled with a variety of monsters, ranging from mighty giants called Baloz, to tiny gnomes called Thopc who take delight in teasing people by turning them into animals. In such tales live witches known as shtrigas which cast spells and the Syni I keq. Female nymphs known as oras, whose glance can turn a man into stone, vampire-like lugats which live off human blood, and karkanxhols—half-man, half-wolf , which hunt shepherds under the full moon—are among the mythological personifications of evil in which folklore and superstition abound. Indeed, though made famous by the Germanic minority of Wallachia who were subjugated to the horrors of ruler Vlad Dracul, then later by the author Bram Stoker, it was Lord Byron who first related tales to Western Europeans of vampires. These tales were inspired by the folklore and tales he encountered while visiting Southern Albania.
To such vestiges of horror as lugats came the need for heroes with ingenious methods to combat them. Such heroes might themselves take the form of mere mortals, or those figures of mythology which were adhered to as good. Zanas, female mountain spirits which dwell near streams, have often been called upon to protect Albanian warriors. The deadly acts of kulshedras, a fire-breathing serpent with seven heads that pollutes the water, air, and soil, have for time immemorial been slain by drangues; human-like warriors with wings under their arms. When lacking such mythical interventions, Albanians have taken it upon themselves to combat evil with assorted amulets, herbs, magical stones, rings, and through such practices as shooting at the moon to ward off wolves. It is still the belief that to spit in a fire is taboo, and that one will be petrified if he breaks an oath made on a pledge stone.
Aspects of more modern and tangible calls for courage are highly represented in more recent forms of Albanian folklore, whereby the acts and deeds of real individuals become legendary, and take on almost mythical proportions. Typical in Southern Albania are the heroics of noble sons, burri I dheut, who took to battle against the overwhelming might of the Turk, as well as faithful women, bukura e dheut, who chose to jump to their death off of cliffs, their babies in arm, rather than be taken or even touched by the invader. The tales of Northern Albania generally focus on the common man’s battle with their Slavic neighbors. Songs and tales surround such characters as Muj, a shepherd who gains great powers by capturing three goats with golden horns, and in turn defeats the Slavs in battle. Upon his death, the enemy challenges him in his grave, from where he calls on his brother Halil to defeat them and return him to life. Other figures of mountain lore such as Oso Kuka, Marash Uci, and the brave maiden Tringa have been immortalized in the works of such writers as Gjergj Fishta, and represent battles for freedom and survival which are unfortunately still very prominent in the lives of the Albanian people to this day.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jan 26, 2008 0:23:03 GMT -5
And I find it really challenging when I come to think that Illyrians worshiped the Snake and according to the myth is because the Snake saved the life of either Hyllus or his children or something...can anyone find that myth???
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 26, 2008 0:39:09 GMT -5
Weren't' the Illyrians heavily influenced by the Greeks?
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jan 26, 2008 1:34:21 GMT -5
In the Theban legend, Harmonia was the daughter of Ares and Aphrodite. Zeus himself married her to Cadmus; the wedding took place on the Cadmea, the citadel of Thebes, and the gods attended it, as they did later for the marriage of Thetis and Peleus. They brought presents, the most famous of which was a robe and a necklace. The robe was a present from Athena (or Aphrodite), and had been woven by the Charities (Graces); the necklace was Hephaestus' gift. According to other stories, both the necklace and the robe were given to Harmonia by CADMUS himself, who had obtained them from Europa; she had been given them by Zeus as love offerings. Yet another tradition asserts that the robe had been made by Athena and Hephaestus, and were impregnated by those two deities with a philtre which poisoned Harmonia's children. The reason for this unkind action was the hatred Hephaestus and Athena felt for Harmonia, the love-child of Ares and Aphrodite. These two presents from the gods were destined to play an important role later in the legend of the Seven Chiefs (see ALCMAEON, AMPHIARAUS, and ERIPHYLE). Later still they became an ex-voto offering at Delphi, where they were stolen in the days of Philip of Macedon.
In the Samothracian traditions, Harmonia was the daughter not of Ares and Aphrodite, but of Zeus and Electra, one of Atlas' daughters; she was therefore the sister of Dardanus and Iasion (Table 7). In other versions Cadmus met her as he made his way through the island, in search of his sister Europa who had been carried off by Zeus. Harmonia's marriage to Cadmus took place in Samothrace, in the same way as in the Theban tradition. It was also said that Cadmus had carried Harmonia off with Athena's help. Cadmus and Harmonia had several children (Table 3). At the end of their lives, they abandoned the throne of Thebes and went to Illyria, where they were eventually transformed into snakes.
So, in the second myth Illyria already existed. But there are other Myths...
Now Cadmus story: Agenor was pretty pissed off that his daughter had been abducted - for that's what it was, Zeus or no - and sent his three sons off to find her, prohibiting them from returning until she was found. Well, it was a hopeless quest, and they were basically exiles from their home; Phoenix founded Phoenicia, Cilix Cilicia, and Cadmus Thebes. (Why not Cadmia? I don't know.) He didn't just found it, though; he consulted the oracle at Delphi and received a typically gnomic utterance, the gist of which was that he should follow a cow that he would soon see, and where it lay down, he should found a city. So he and his men followed a cow until it lay down, and when it did, he ordered his men to bring water so that he could offer a sacrifice to Athena, as I suppose was the custom, but unfortunately they encountered a dragon or serpent which was sacred to Ares, and were all killed. Cadmus went looking for his comrades and found them slain; he engaged in a fearful battle of his own, eventually slaying the serpent. He then heard a mysterious prophesy that he himself would one day become a serpent.
After his indenture was up, he got to be ruler of Thebes and married Harmonia, daughter of Ares and Aphrodite; they had four daughters and a son. When Cadmus and Harmonia grew old they moved to Illyria, where they were transformed into serpents, just as the voice had foretold so long before. Besides his adventures with serpents and gods, Cadmus introduced into Greece the sixteen simple Cadmean letters of the Greek alphabet.
Thanks to the Encyclopedia Mythica (www.pantheon.org/mythica.html)
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jan 26, 2008 2:04:14 GMT -5
So...there are many myths re: the pertinence of the Snake in Illyrian's culture. And Alexander's mother worshiped them. Now, not to be mean, but according to Plutarch, even Phillip himself somehow believed Alexander was born by a snake=thus was Divine or something (as an antipode of his retarted brother).. In all this story, I may assume that we know for sure the mother of Alexander, but we don't know for sure his father and I have asked a question once: was Alexander ever called "a bastard"?
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Post by albquietman on Jan 26, 2008 2:35:38 GMT -5
Weren't' the Illyrians heavily influenced by the Greeks? Of course, all the world is influenced by the greeks...I heard there was life in Mars long time ago...influenced by the greeks too...
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Post by BibleRiot on Jan 26, 2008 6:24:07 GMT -5
" It's a wise child that knows its own father." Homer, Odyssey 1.215 "It's a wise father that knows his own child" Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice, Act II Scene 2 Olympias' snake worship is usually taken to indicate Thracian "Dionysian" cultural influences ... but the fact that the Molossian royal family were Greek is just not a matter of dispute. All authorities agree.
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Post by grksdied4you on Jan 26, 2008 8:19:26 GMT -5
Alexander's father Philip II was said by a later biographer (Satyrus) to have fought his wars by marriages - in all, he notched up seven wives, several of them concurrently. A special position was occupied by his GREEK wife Olympias, who gave birth to his heir apparent, Alexander, in 356.
Cartledge, Paul. Ancient Greece: Cambridge Illustrated History Cambridge University Press: United Kingdom. 1998, 191.
That source is from the top historians in the world. Have you ever heard of Cambridge University???
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