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Post by slowdent on Mar 13, 2008 15:46:45 GMT -5
says terro who is frequenting the places to be for gay montenegrins who want to be albanians
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Post by slowdent on Mar 13, 2008 16:01:59 GMT -5
Atlantis What albs were doing during this time: About thirty Albanians rose to the position of grand vizier, chief deputy to the sultan himself. In the second half of the seventeenth century, the Albanian Köprülü family provided four grand viziers, who fought against corruption, temporarily shored up eroding central government control over rapacious local beys, and won several military victories. countrystudies.us/albania/18.htmThat qualifies for Albanians ki$$ing a$$ of the ottomans and there is no similar record for Greeks yes man you are right, In the beginning we had to k1ck alb collaborators out and then start fighting the ottomans. Tripolitsa is a good example, where ALL the guards were albanians the bad thing about being a muslim is spelling…… who says that the patriarchate represented Greece or Greeks ? You are so right. Thats why albania was liberated early….. or am i mistaken ?
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Post by terroreign on Mar 13, 2008 16:12:16 GMT -5
slowdent gets his name from going to a gay greek bar and getting wasted on ouzo, later getting knocked up with his boyfriends.
The next morning he couldnt walk straight and there was crater-like dent in his buttocks
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Post by slowdent on Mar 13, 2008 16:22:48 GMT -5
terro
greetings from your dad. I told him to sit down and write something, but he cannot. his a$$ is sore
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Post by terroreign on Mar 13, 2008 18:19:45 GMT -5
wow, so original. How's that crater in your buttocks doing
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 13, 2008 23:25:22 GMT -5
Moved for many reasons. One being this is an Albanian issue. And it really belongs here.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Mar 14, 2008 0:26:56 GMT -5
Arxileas, It is an Albanian concern, not an issue. It's becoming an issue due to the inappropriate use by part of the Greeks. As AlbQ stated here, and as you read from your material, the Treaty of San Stefano, and the League of Prizren, Albanians were pressed by the Supreme Port to chose between separating Albania among Greece, Montenegro, Serbia or remain as an Entity under Ottoman's sovereignty. They had but no choice. By the other hand, Greeks (referring to AlbQ's article) collaborated with Turks for little interests such as: trading and shipping and so. Albanians had a higher aim: to exist as Albanians. And I don't think there is any reason at all to call Albanians TurkoAlvanos because they did the same as Greeks did; collaborated with Turks...but if Greeks did it for the trade, Albanians needed to exists. Re: the schooling. Albanians were always separated in Vilayets and Clans. As we all know, the cultural center is always the one that is in contact with the civilization. What civilizations were Albanians in contact with? Latin, Greek-Byzant, Ottoman. Is more than comprehensible their alphabet wold be either one (the Phonems) not the spoken language as Arxileas' material shows. If the clash of 3 civilizations happen right there, of course the Religion divergences will be right there! And of course the influences are negative and positive. Albanians happen to have the worst for they were never an entity (but clans); to risk the very existence. And they always fought to preserve their being, even though never united! (Some fights and sporadic battles here with the Montenegreens in Shkodra, some over there in Korica with Greeks and so it went). All the Empires entered Albania and tried to give something (language, customs,) and took some part of Albanians' identity (by imposing their language, their religion and by identifying them as part of the Empire) but never had they tried to entirely wipe off Albanian's identity from the Balkans, even though within the Empires, Albanians were there somewhere...and when the time came, (the broke of the Ottoman Empire) Albanians understood it was the moment they would be risking the very existence and this time they could lose everything! The very Albanians who fought against Ottomans under Skenderbeu and were helped by Venedik!!! And I can go on forever giving reasons (simple to extract them form the materials exposed) of Albanians' "allying" with Turks (not all of them though, only one fraction of the League) but I can also go on forever and ever...and yet cannot find in all this why Albanians should be labeled TurkoAlvanos. Or should I accept a term used 500 years ago for Albanians and others used many centuries ago, (for Greeks) thus calling Terroreign for help and reconsider his idea?
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 14, 2008 1:12:15 GMT -5
I understand and respect your views and opinions but off course they aren't always based on facts, but as you know this cannot be resolved on message boards, especially irritating it’s user’s forum. In fact it is an internet / social issue only way is if you police the whole internet and public social behaviour, which is impossible to do on everyone.
What can we say ?
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Post by Teuta1975 on Mar 14, 2008 1:19:47 GMT -5
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Post by albquietman on Mar 14, 2008 7:28:59 GMT -5
Moving or deleting a thread especially when it's opened by a moderator doesn't sound right to me, Arxileas. Of course you have the right to do whatever you think in the greek forum, but sometimes I fail to see the reason of your actions. This thread it's not an albanian problem, because if it was it would had been opened in the albanian forum. The reason Teuta opened this thread in your forum was to get as much as possible exposure and opininons especially by the greeks who use this derogatory made up word. Since some of you are the ones using this word (not including you, because I haven't seen you using that so far), I think it's not an albanian problem, but a greek problem. In my previous post here I was trying to make a point that when a country is invaded especially for such long periods of time like Albania and Greece were invaded by the ottomans, of course there will be people that will coollaborate with the invader in a way or another, and greeks are not imune to that. So, I find it non-sense to label a whole nation for the actions of some people, when in our case the whole world knows how hard we fought the ottomans, despite the fact that we were just a small nation without anyone behind our back to support us.
A good neiborough and friend doesn't look in your past for gray areas in order to put you down, like you guys have done so far...but we still hope you'll get over it in the future...if not, well, we'll do the same thing for you, but that's not the way to go if we really want a Balkan without balkanization...
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Post by Kassandros on Mar 14, 2008 8:14:54 GMT -5
Teuta first of all I want to clarify something. The term Turkalvanos is not an official Greek term. Its most a term used by Greek people and transferred from generation to generation. Since during the Ottoman era the troops Greek revolutionaries had to face were mixed groups of Turks and Muslim Albanians. The term Turkalvanoi couldnt described better the obvious.
Now... why it stills exists and it not fades? That is a question for you.. not for the Greeks. Its easy for everybody who has access in the web to see an ultimate "love" between Muslim Albanians of today with Turks. Even after 500 years, there is that connection. Show since that connection and those "mixed troops" still exist.... the term Turkalvanoi cannot fade. Its also a modern and current situation and it is obvious again.
I dont understand why that term has to change or fade... since it is still part of modern era?
And as you said.. why not German-Albanians etc.... it has to do with the time. 500 years its a big time for that mixed troops. If German occupation was for 500 years... most propably the term would be Germalbanians. Since it was only for 4 years... and since the Albanians of today are not culturaly attached with the present Germans.... that term cannot be used.
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Mar 14, 2008 14:26:44 GMT -5
Actually it is an issue for the Greeks. Just because Albania and the Albanians have good relations with Turkey and the Turks, doesn't mean we should be called "turkalbanians". We are simply Albanians, nothing more or less.
If you are jealous of this relationship, perhaps you should consider a different approach when adressing Albanians and issues dealing with our two nations, instead of your usual "you are in reality Greeks" or similiar BS to that. Understand?
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Post by grksdied4you on Mar 14, 2008 15:53:43 GMT -5
Albanians came into Greece with the Turks, and they left the same way with the Turks. Maybe that may be a reason as well.
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Post by ilirdardani on Mar 14, 2008 16:02:32 GMT -5
Albanians were in Greece before the Ottomans and remain there to this day. (arvanitet)
grksdied4you, who the big fear of Albanians? I've seen your post all over the site, and all you do is put the Albanians down and discriminate. Did you know that Albanians died 4 you and your country?
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Post by terroreign on Mar 14, 2008 18:07:25 GMT -5
He's a chauvanist greek, he's probably never seen an albanian in his life, and spends too much time in gay bars.
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Post by speedy on Mar 14, 2008 18:23:07 GMT -5
albanians are scared for real debate on key issues
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Post by Teuta1975 on Mar 14, 2008 18:36:19 GMT -5
Well...ok...Albanians are scared....BUT...what's your opinion re: this issue?
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 14, 2008 20:49:58 GMT -5
I have seen Albanians,especially in kosovo praying in the middle of the street.... I also know there are places in Kosovo that look like eastern Turkey... Now I understand some Christian Albs get offended at the term.... I agree with you that it is offensive.... but to the mulsim albs in was never really offensive 100 years ago..in fact some of them thought of it as a compliment.... it just it the last 30 years... and the ongoing self realization that has been sweeping parts north of Greece.. some people are proud to be called Albanians ,Bosnians ect..instead of being tied in to the Turks...
Donnie ,your type have had "good' relations with Turks ever since Scandeberg died..basically you sold him out and stabbed him in the back...and you're proud of it.... and have that 'matter of fact' attitude about the whole thing..to us it reeks putrid meat... just laying out the facts we Greeks believe in, weather or not you give a chit or not.... we don't either.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Mar 14, 2008 20:56:57 GMT -5
Basil, Thank you Basil; for I heard Arxileas saying here that he guessed Greek historians use the term based on the historical facts (he guessed...Arxileas, you understand now how wise was your word? Saved you from Rex this time...don't be angry ;D) so...in spite of what happened in the history as it happened a lot indeed not only with Turks and Germans but also Italians and others already discussed), do you agree that it is a mentality and as such, a misconception? I understand what you mean by living as Turks and adapting their religion, but shouldn't be forgotten two facts: 1. Albs. had a strong reason to do that 2. Now Ottoman Empire doesn't exist anymore and Albania is a country that doesn't need to fight for independence in 2008. I am afraid you're not very correct here. It is not "love" what you see in internet; it's called political allies... and supporters...same as Greeks with Serbs...but we don't call you Serbs. (If I were to use your terms, I have also noticed that "love" between Serbs and Greeks) Because it's not a term to begin with...It's a word that expresses disgust for Albanians by Greeks but for my Generation it means nothing...you know what I thought when I first heard it? What a naivety!!! And I didn't take it as offensive...but in order to offend someone, the point is for the other to understand its meaning!!! And the term must be connected to an actual and current event...at least that's what I think... Good reasoning. But " too
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Post by ilirdardani on Mar 14, 2008 23:33:01 GMT -5
albanians are scared for real debate on key issues What key issue? Linking us to the Turks? Thats not an issue, thats a lie created by our enemies which are the Serbs and the Greek.
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