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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 21, 2009 7:36:15 GMT -5
And u would know that.. I dont reckon that anyone from abroad inprisioned our leaders before??
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 21, 2009 8:00:05 GMT -5
Tito was a foreigner in every sense of the word.
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 21, 2009 8:02:23 GMT -5
And his rule was also foreign. He gained power from direct outside force, he stayed in power through tyranny alone and he had no regard for local traditions.
I can't believe you as a Serb can idolize a man (and I use that term loosely) like that.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 21, 2009 8:51:31 GMT -5
And his rule was also foreign. He gained power from direct outside force, he stayed in power through tyranny alone and he had no regard for local traditions. I can't believe you as a Serb can idolize a man (and I use that term loosely) like that. Just tell me this one thing. Did ur parent complain when they got their salury? that is if they ever lived in yu? I bet they didnt have problems with heating and lack of clothing like u had in Aussie during the hottest months?
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 21, 2009 9:03:53 GMT -5
Oh so now we should thank Tito for the "wonderful" weather in the Balkans? You're out of your damn mind.
The fact is that Yugoslavia's economic downfall was the direct result of Tito's "management" of the economy. Perhaps we should thank him for that as well?
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 21, 2009 9:45:43 GMT -5
Oh so now we should thank Tito for the "wonderful" weather in the Balkans? You're out of your damn mind. The fact is that Yugoslavia's economic downfall was the direct result of Tito's "management" of the economy. Perhaps we should thank him for that as well? U know very well what i ment.. Weather is not it.. Well it worked just find until he died.. And then the real Serbian patriots took over. And serbia got poorer and poorer.. But good that the trend is changing to the better...
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 21, 2009 10:12:03 GMT -5
Real Serb Patriots? "Serbia" was ruled by Leftists until Kostunica came to power. And the economic decline started a decade before Tito died.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 21, 2009 10:19:22 GMT -5
Real Serb Patriots? "Serbia" was ruled by Leftists until Kostunica came to power. And the economic decline started a decade before Tito died. Yugoslavia was once a regional industrial power and economic success. Two decades before 1980, annual gross domestic product (GDP) growth averaged 6.1 percent, medical care was free, literacy was 91 percent, and life expectancy was 72 years. [8] But after a decade of Western economic ministrations and five years of disintegration, war, boycott, and embargo, the economy of the former Yugoslavia collapsed. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Socialist_Federal_Republic_of_YugoslaviaAnd ay.. Next time when u are in ur hometown.. Feel free to ask around a little what people thought about him and ask them how it was before...
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paja
Membrum
Posts: 193
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Post by paja on Apr 21, 2009 11:00:18 GMT -5
So, in 1960? My father told me when he was born, 1950, there was starvation across the country.
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Post by radovic on Apr 21, 2009 11:26:12 GMT -5
So, in 1960? My father told me when he was born, 1950, there was starvation across the country. Never was.
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Post by radovic on Apr 21, 2009 11:28:11 GMT -5
Real Serb Patriots? "Serbia" was ruled by Leftists until Kostunica came to power. And the economic decline started a decade before Tito died. Economic decline start after Tito died. 1970-80, 6.1%/ya growth on average [Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Croatia was slightly higher, Slovenia was at some 4%, Kosovo was probably at 0%]. 1981-1990, growth average .5% and the 1989 and 1990 there were relatively alrge drops.
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Post by radovic on Apr 21, 2009 11:37:52 GMT -5
Oh so now we should thank Tito for the "wonderful" weather in the Balkans? You're out of your damn mind. The fact is that Yugoslavia's economic downfall was the direct result of Tito's "management" of the economy. Perhaps we should thank him for that as well? U know very well what i ment.. Weather is not it.. Well it worked just find until he died.. And then the real Serbian patriots took over. And serbia got poorer and poorer.. But good that the trend is changing to the better... "Real Serb patriots", I'm guessing your talking about Slobo. Sorry but he was irrelevant on the political scene until 1987. The economy had already gone to hell by the time he came to power. Not only that but while he was coming to power the federal government pushed through IMF diktats that caused the economy to go to hell even more, from 1989 on wards he criticized the federal government for listening to the IMF. Regardless the economy went to hell udner him because of IMF sanctions and the bombing. And also, before you start talkin about how everything got better after Milosevic. Be aware of the followings: - After Milosevic Djindjic came, under Djindjic's premiership we had 4.8%, 4.2% and 2.5% economic growth [this was actually less then during Slobo's era after the worst effects of the sanctions, since in 1994 the economy grew 6.5%, 95 at 6%, 96 at 4.6%, 97 at 7.4%, 98 at 2.4%]. ^ So much for the lies of how great Djindjic was. Had their been no nato bombing it is fair to assume that the economy would have continued at the levels prior to 1998- I hope when you talk of patriots you talk about Kostunica. Since during his tenure as premier the economy grew at rates of 8.2% in 2004, 6% in 2005, 5.6% in 2006, 7.1% in 2007, and in the first 6 months of of 2008 at around 8%. The growth in the last 6 months of 08 was lower then in the earlier 6 motnhs and with the wonders of the pro-EU crowd it is expected to be -5% <-- although I expect -2%.
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Post by radovic on Apr 21, 2009 11:41:28 GMT -5
The man laying a wreath for Djindjic, it looks like Gerhard Schroeder. Germanic scum who pushed for bombing. It is, www.fond-djindjic.org/en/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45. Anyways. It shows how retarded the EU has made our people. william Montgomery the former U.S. ambassador has his career destroyed for shaking hands with Sreten Lukic [Hague indictee] at a private event. While Tadic has Schroeder take part in his 2007 parliamentary campaign and Serbs do nothing. Imagien what would happen if an Iraqi politician brought Bush to help campaign for him during this years parliamentary elections in Iraq. I would suggest Schroeder be arrested next time he comes to Serbia. They place our leaders on trial we should place theirs on trial. They poison one of ares, we put a bullet to the head of theirs.
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 21, 2009 11:43:10 GMT -5
Yugoslavia was once a regional industrial power and economic success. Thanks to slave labour during the 1940s/1950s and handouts from both the USA and USSR. I stated that it started to decline a decade before his death which would be 1970. Two decades before his death is 1960. Perhaps you should check out the rise of inflation from 1970 onward and the rise in dissent throughout all of Yugoslavia which forced Tito to rewrite the constitution. annual gross domestic product (GDP) growth averaged 6.1 percent, medical care was free, literacy was 91 percent, and life expectancy was 72 years. [8] But after a decade of Western economic ministrations and five years of disintegration, war, boycott, and embargo, the economy of the former Yugoslavia collapsed. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Socialist_Federal_Republic_of_Yugoslavia1. GDP can rise even when the economy is in the crapper. The GDP of Yugoslavia under Milosevic continued to rise despite his "mismanagement" and the embargo. 2. The fact that it wasn't 100% just shows how pitiful it was. I must say that people who went to Yugoslavian schools during Tito's reign tend to be the dumbest people I have ever met save those who were also home schooled by their parents (which happens to be a lot, thankfully). 3. Socialized medical care is horrible. 4. Hundreds of thousands of people migrated from Yugoslavia during Tito's reign for economic reasons. The funniest thing about this is that even people who escaped the tyranny of Tito tend to speak highly of him and when you point out that they tried to get away from his "utopia", they get all prissy and refuse to talk to you. Like I previously wrote, they are the dumbest people I have ever met. And ay.. Next time when u are in ur hometown.. Feel free to ask around a little what people thought about him and ask them how it was before... LOL. In Zenica? My grandfather tried praising Tito before the war started and nearly got decapitated.
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Post by soko on Apr 21, 2009 17:25:36 GMT -5
Ehem..
Yugoslavia had free schooling.. free healthcare..
Most of Yugo was owned by Yugo banks and Yugo state....
You had security, you knew that once you grew up, chances were you could get a home, start a family, get a car., you knew that if your parents got ill when they were old they would get health care, you knew your children would get health care...
you knew you would get your salary..
Yugoslavia had an aerospace industry... made computers, parts for nuclear reactors, was able to feed it self through slavonia and vojvodina...
we were not sucking up to any great powers, we had said to both the US and the USSR to go eff them selfs, and unlike the rest of Europe were not tacking it up the ass from either the US or USSR...
we had the forth largest army in europe....
and before you start by saying that germany or america had better economies in terms of bigger cars or homes, you forget the state of Yugoslavia, hell we had been a feudal state not long ago, a lot of places did not even have electric power, yet alone paved roads... Yugo was made from scratch after ww2, only places that were "modern" were downtown Beograd Zagreb and Ljubljana
yeah, life sure sucked under Tito... I'm not one of those that idolize him, I'm against the whole thing of turning him into a God, and the cult around him... and the undemocratic nature of the communist party of Yugoslavia that led to that many people abused it for their own gain to get even with others....
but compeered to the options, these nationalists, who have sold all of our industries, destroyed our countries, and encouraged ethnic cleansing.... I will take a Tito any day over this..
anyways, the link to wiki says the IMF effed over our economy....
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 21, 2009 17:37:01 GMT -5
Svaka ti cast... Exhault
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Post by soko on Apr 21, 2009 18:06:26 GMT -5
^^ hvala =)
lol, schools in Yugo produced smarter people then most western schools do today...
and socialized medical care works, people get help based on their need, not on the "need" to get a boobjob or facelift.... also, without freehealth poeple whos family members get seriously sick have the choice between going broke, or letting their father/mother die....thats horrible..
hell, anything other then socialized medicine is inhuman... are you saying a person who earns 200,000 $ a year from stocks is more deserving of surgery then a family father who earns 50k from a 8-16 job, has two kids.., bljak.. gdje ti je dusa bolan?
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 21, 2009 18:30:25 GMT -5
Yugoslavia had free schooling.. free healthcare.. You mean bad schooling and bad healthcare. Most of Yugo was owned by Yugo banks and Yugo state.... State ownership is a bad thing. It means people become dependent on the state thus have no choice but to protect the state regardless of whether the state is good or evil. You had security, you knew that once you grew up, chances were you could get a home, start a family, get a car., you knew that if your parents got ill when they were old they would get health care, you knew your children would get health care... People had security? From what? The only thing that was to be feared was Tito's police. you knew you would get your salary.. If you had a job at all. Many people didn't. Yugoslavia had an aerospace industry... made computers, parts for nuclear reactors, was able to feed it self through slavonia and vojvodina... Yugoslavia had a fairly impressive industry before WW2 and I'm certain that had Tito not gained power then Yugoslavia's industry and technological level would be greater still. we were not sucking up to any great powers, we had said to both the US and the USSR to go eff them selfs, and unlike the rest of Europe were not tacking it up the ass from either the US or USSR... Actually Yugoslavia had to suck up to both since it was getting handouts from both. we had the forth largest army in europe.... Iraq had the fifth largest army in the world under Hussein. Iraq was not a pleasant place to live in. and before you start by saying that germany or america had better economies in terms of bigger cars or homes, you forget the state of Yugoslavia, hell we had been a feudal state not long ago, a lot of places did not even have electric power, yet alone paved roads... Actually Serbia/Yugoslavia hasn't been a feudal state since at least the 17th century. Yugo was made from scratch after ww2, only places that were "modern" were downtown Beograd Zagreb and Ljubljana Actually most of the things the Commies "made" was inherited by the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. The Steel Works in Zenica (second largest in Europe) was made by Monarch. yeah, life sure sucked under Tito... I'm not one of those that idolize him, I'm against the whole thing of turning him into a God, and the cult around him... and the undemocratic nature of the communist party of Yugoslavia that led to that many people abused it for their own gain to get even with others.... Life sucked under Tito. Period. but compeered to the options, these nationalists, who have sold all of our industries, destroyed our countries, and encouraged ethnic cleansing.... I will take a Tito any day over this.. Nationalists had nothing to do with the break-up of Yugoslavia. Had there been more Yugoslavian Nationalists then Yugoslavia wouldn't have broken up in the first place. Yugoslavia fell apart because of Commie crooks. Had Yugoslavia stayed a kingdom under the benevolent Karadjordjevics then it would be much more prosperous, much more secure and above all else, it would still be together. Let’s not forget that it was the Commies who created the artificial borders that later become the "Republic of Slovenia", the "Republic of Croatia", "Bosnia and Herzegovina", the "Republic of Montenegro", the "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" and the two autonomous regions within the "Republic of Serbia". The whore that was known as Tito was the cause of the destruction of Yugoslavia and his corpse should be taken from the mausoleum and burnt. And it was his creation of these artificial borders that ensured ethnic cleansing would take place as his minions vied for power on the new world stage.
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 21, 2009 18:33:16 GMT -5
lol, schools in Yugo produced smarter people then most western schools do today... Says you. I know better. and socialized medical care works, people get help based on their need, not on the "need" to get a boobjob or facelift.... also, without freehealth poeple whos family members get seriously sick have the choice between going broke, or letting their father/mother die....thats horrible.. hell, anything other then socialized medicine is inhuman... are you saying a person who earns 200,000 $ a year from stocks is more deserving of surgery then a family father who earns 50k from a 8-16 job, has two kids.., bljak.. gdje ti je dusa bolan? In the "western world" there is thing called "health insurance" that prevents that type of thing happening. What's more, the healthcare here is infinitely better than anything (and I mean anything) any Commie country can offer or could ever offer.
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Post by radovic on Apr 21, 2009 19:12:10 GMT -5
Free schooling -- so does Serbia and every country in Europe. Your point.
Free healthcare -- so what, Tito visited several private clinics in the west in the last year of his life. Your point.
Most of those banks were essentially bankrupt before the dissolution (by actions the government of Ante Markovic undertook) and the central bank went bankrupt at least twice in the 80s.
Get a home. The situation was the same as know, their was a lack of housing. In 1989 Serbia lacked 100,000 homes, know adays it is 150,000. Which means in reality the housing situation is better know given the lack of construction in the 90s, fewer people living in villages and the refugees and that the 50% increase has essentially occured in the last 10 years.
A car. That's very illogical, their was no large growth in the population and the number of cars per capita increased during the 90s by 60%. <-- Car wise the only thing that decreased was the production by Zastava.
Yes we had an aerospace idnustry, but those that really matter. Yugoslavia was too small to have a significant. Honestly, the major aerospace companies are multinational efforts or based in giant countries -- Boeing is American, Airbus in European [essentially Germany, UK, France with places like Belgium making the wheels], Russia now has essentially 1 plane maker and Brazil has Embraera. Even if Yugoslavia continued to exist that aerospace industry would probably have ceased to exist.
So what if Yugoslavia exported computers. They were crap, they weren't exported and the industry relied on expensive import duties to survive. While Yugoslavia was making shitty computers Taiwan was taking over the market.
Yugoslavia did not make parts for nuclear weapons. The parts for Vinca came from Russia, the parts for Krsko came from Westinghouse in America and from Norway and had the other 4 planned reactors been built they would be CANDU parts from Canada.
Serbia can feed it's self through Vojvodina still and could through out the 90s. In fact if anything Yugoslavia barely used it's cap[acity- Vojovinda could alone feed 20 million people but production was never that high -- the maximum production ever was less then 50% of that.
Instead Yugoslavia was busy formulating the policy of "Total National Defense" arming the population to the point that seljaks and brdjani in Croatia and Bosnia started shooting at them selves. So much for the great external threat.
No, Yugoslavia took it up the ass another way. Yugoslavia took loans from USSR and USA and it's economy was so shitty that Yugoslavia with a large GDP then it's successor state and a quarter of the debt of it's successor states couldn't pay the loans and was a basket case through out the 80s.
The army drained a large part of GDP for an invasion that never happenned and the army was so incompetent it couldn't deal with seperatists at all.
South Korea was worst in 1953 and same with post-WWII Japan was also, yet they developed better then Yugoslavia. Now if you claim this is a stupid analogy, so was Franco's Spain and by the time he died they were better then Yugoslavia. Same goes with Greece.
Who exactly sold these industries?
Was it Slobo -- no he only sold Telekom Srbija and the price he would of accepted for Lafarge was 8 times that Djindjic accepted.
Was it Kostunica -- no when the worst sales occured he left DOS.
Who encouraged ethnic cleansing?
Was it Slobo -- sadly it wasn't him.
Was it Kostunica -- debatable, since Kostunica never organized paramilitaries and had less then 1% support during the wars.
Was it Seselj -- yes it was.
Was it Draskovic -- yes it was.
Was it Djindjic and his DS -- yes it was. ^ The people you love Djindjic and the DS helped organize paramilitaries. Ljubisa Savic "Mauzer" organized the Panthers and lead DS branch in RS. Not only that but Djindjic famously went to Pale to roast an ox with Karadzic at least twice.
^ If anything about indicates that those who did the leaders encouraging cleansing were all Bosnian Serbs, this means right know we should get rid of all Bosnian Serbian politicians in Serbia from holding positions of power.
Well. If I'm not mistaken the great Tito took those loans and his "economic miracle" was a direct result of those loans.
He essentially had the same policies of Kim Il Sung. He took out loans from the USSR, which all wne t well upto the late 80s when their economy stopped being competitive with the south. And now you have South Korea as one oft he worlds great economies and you have the north at a GDP per cpaita probably less then $1000/ya.
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