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Post by soko on Apr 21, 2009 19:54:40 GMT -5
look, I don't care about Djindjic, and I sure as hell do not love the man.. and skolarine cost a lot today in Serbia and in exyu, and yes having free education all the way into uni, makes it possible for other people then tatini sinovi to be doctors lawyers engineers.... anyways, I don't have a lot of statistics in my head, so there is no point in me writing anything more then the obvious, life was a lot better, and we were a sovereign country Yugoslav aerospace was about to make a supersonic fighter right before its end, so it wasn't that bad, it wasn't making A380's or Tu-160s.... But it was as good as, or better then Brazil is today
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 21, 2009 20:10:17 GMT -5
Life wasn't better back then. It was the same as it is now. Actually it was worse because there were informers and police everywhere looking for an excuse to put you in jail.
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Post by radovic on Apr 21, 2009 20:29:09 GMT -5
look, I don't care about Djindjic, and I sure as hell do not love the man.. and skolarine cost a lot today in Serbia and in exyu, and yes having free education all the way into uni, makes it possible for other people then tatini sinovi to be doctors lawyers engineers.... Yes, Tito's system of free education was so great that except Slovenia, most of the republics had barely less then 10% of the population having a university degree. Amazing. Or even better yet, it took the average person 9 years to finish a program that should last 4 years. It's fucking amazing how great the education was. Life was great because it was built on lies on international loans. It's just how Tadic can claim how life was great under Djindjic, when if anything it was worst. Even if Tito lived and the wars idn't happen what Tito build was going to collapse because he built a house next to an eroding cliff. And no we were not a sovereign country, we were beholden to the interests of international bankers -- just less then know. A myth, that supersonic jet was years from completion. "Novi Avion" was in the developmental stages for 20 years. Romania with a far worst economy was closer to finishing it's supersonic jet then Yugoslavia ever was. Not only that but in the late 80s the supersonic jet program ended since the public and Slovenians thought it was a waste of money. The porjected costed billions, the jets would be several times more expensive then just buying them and there would be no buyers and the need for them ended. The jet was failure just like Yugoslavia's failed nuclear weapons program.
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Post by SKORIC on Apr 21, 2009 20:53:01 GMT -5
Check mate to radovic
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 21, 2009 22:56:35 GMT -5
What about me?
;_;
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Post by SKORIC on Apr 22, 2009 1:42:55 GMT -5
NO SOUP FOR YOU! Anyways im really on Soko's and Dario's side. Im a little Yugonostalgic myself JUGOSLAVIJAAARGH!!!
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Post by SKORIC on Apr 22, 2009 1:56:38 GMT -5
One thing in common with both Yugoslavia's is that deers were public enemy numero uno.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 22, 2009 4:31:19 GMT -5
lol skoric u know its not about being Yugonostalgic or not.. Just that things where much better then. And it was. Little twat Zadnji bosanac surly dont know shit and hes talking out of his ass. I can bet 1000€ that if i ask 50people 45 would say that things where better before, that doesnt mean everyone of them wants communism back and Tito as president. But to say it was all that bad before, why didnt people move overseas then? Like they did during 90's? Zadnji bosanac, its funny how pathetic and dumb u really are.. U havent an idea how many Engineers,Doctors,lawyers etc etc moved to Sweden in the 70's 80's.. Even today u can hear Swedes saying that the imigrants from YU in 70's 80's where the best manpower they got. Do u know what we did for the aerospace? Do u have a clue wich construction companies we had over seas? Theres alot of buidlings in Arab emirate that Yugoslav engineers and designers builded. What the hell do we build now? And u say that those people where the dubmest? U are one damn dumb serb who lives in Aussie and clearly dont have clue about what going on.. Ur nothing more than a internet warrior lol..
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 22, 2009 4:41:54 GMT -5
Despite their common origins, the economy of socialist Yugoslavia was much different from the economies of the Soviet Union and other Eastern European communist countries, especially after the Yugoslav-Soviet break-up of 1948. Rather than being owned by the state, Yugoslav companies were socially owned and managed with workers' self-management much like the Israeli kibbutz and the anarchist communes of Spanish Catalonia. Unlike the Soviet Union and East European economies, Yugoslavia's socialist economy was not centrally planned. The occupation and liberation struggle in World War II left Yugoslavia's infrastructure devastated. Even the most developed parts of the country were largely rural, and the little industry the country had was largely damaged or destroyed.
With the exception of a recession in the mid-1960s, the country's economy prospered formidably. Unemployment was low and the education level of the work force steadily increased. Due to Yugoslavia's neutrality and its leading role in the Non-Aligned Movement, Yugoslav companies exported to both Western and Eastern markets. Yugoslav companies carried out construction of numerous major infrastructural and industrial projects in Africa, Europe and Asia.
The fact that Yugoslavs were allowed to emigrate freely from the 1960s on prompted many to find work in Western Europe, notably West Germany. This contributed to keeping unemployment in check, and also acted as a source of capital and foreign currency.
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Post by fazlinho on Apr 22, 2009 6:23:37 GMT -5
Yugoslavia had it's very good and very bad sides. Imho it could have survived perfectly, and I mean perfectly if the head of the state started some reforms. All the working class socialism bs needed to be left outside as time changed. The big fault of Yugoslavia is that it was too closely associated to communism and everything pertaining it. The party system and all that. It's bs saying we couldn't live together, we perfectly could if things went different. If every parts of the society took place in national policies, if nationalism wasn't suppressed but made part of yugoslavia, it would have perfectly work. I want to say, Italy is a country that was formed in the 1870, a person from the north of Italy can't in ANY WAY understand a southern italian. Official Italian is a dialect, that is the dialect of the city of Firenze. Yet they didn't impose Italy by force on people, erasing what was there, pretending to create a new Italy. Yugoslavia shouldn't have tried to impose new fake values to everyone, instead it should have incorporated every values there were already on the field, respected them more and make an organization to make them prosper. It greatly failed IMHO because of it's too tight closeness to Communism.
All of that is said by me, who will continue to go on Tito's grave in Belgrade, as I already did. He did his good and bad things, and I will remember him for the good ones.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 22, 2009 6:34:14 GMT -5
Exalt ^^ Bravo
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Post by radovic on Apr 22, 2009 8:06:48 GMT -5
Despite their common origins, the economy of socialist Yugoslavia was much different from the economies of the Soviet Union and other Eastern European communist countries, especially after the Yugoslav-Soviet break-up of 1948. Rather than being owned by the state, Yugoslav companies were socially owned and managed with workers' self-management much like the Israeli kibbutz and the anarchist communes of Spanish Catalonia. Unlike the Soviet Union and East European economies, Yugoslavia's socialist economy was not centrally planned. The occupation and liberation struggle in World War II left Yugoslavia's infrastructure devastated. Even the most developed parts of the country were largely rural, and the little industry the country had was largely damaged or destroyed. With the exception of a recession in the mid-1960s, the country's economy prospered formidably. Unemployment was low and the education level of the work force steadily increased. Due to Yugoslavia's neutrality and its leading role in the Non-Aligned Movement, Yugoslav companies exported to both Western and Eastern markets. Yugoslav companies carried out construction of numerous major infrastructural and industrial projects in Africa, Europe and Asia. The fact that Yugoslavs were allowed to emigrate freely from the 1960s on prompted many to find work in Western Europe, notably West Germany. This contributed to keeping unemployment in check, and also acted as a source of capital and foreign currency. "Worker controlled| in theory.SOE's throughout the country were regularly stopped from pursuing trades and investments the government opposed. But unemployment was low. That is bullshit. Unemplyoment was low in the 40s/50s when there was "forced labour." But by the time in the 60s people were allowed to work abroad the economy had gone to hell na dallowing as much as 20% of the work force abroad kept the unemployment at a rate of 15%. 15% was by far the largest in Europe (according to some), I think post-Franco spain had it higher. The only place the low unemployment applies to is Slovenia.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 22, 2009 8:34:02 GMT -5
Lol according to u guys we where all poor sons of bitches down there.. Funny how everyone thinks that Yugoslava was a Economic succes before :/ But sure u know better..
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Post by SKORIC on Apr 22, 2009 8:48:27 GMT -5
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Post by radovic on Apr 22, 2009 9:42:14 GMT -5
Lol according to u guys we where all poor sons of b***hes down there.. Funny how everyone thinks that Yugoslava was a Economic succes before :/ But sure u know better.. Economically succeful if one compares it to such ``great economic`powers as Eastern Europe. Reality is that with the exception of Portugal and Greece, every capitalist country in Europe by far outperformed Yugoslavia. So yes it`s an economic success comapred to ideologically constrained communist states. And again like I stated it`s success is based on foreign loans. That`s like calling Bush era America a great economic model for the futureé
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Post by radovic on Apr 22, 2009 9:44:17 GMT -5
Yugoslavia had it's very good and very bad sides. Imho it could have survived perfectly, and I mean perfectly if the head of the state started some reforms. All the working class socialism bs needed to be left outside as time changed. The big fault of Yugoslavia is that it was too closely associated to communism and everything pertaining it. The party system and all that. It's bs saying we couldn't live together, we perfectly could if things went different. If every parts of the society took place in national policies, if nationalism wasn't suppressed but made part of yugoslavia, it would have perfectly work. I want to say, Italy is a country that was formed in the 1870, a person from the north of Italy can't in ANY WAY understand a southern italian. Official Italian is a dialect, that is the dialect of the city of Firenze. Yet they didn't impose Italy by force on people, erasing what was there, pretending to create a new Italy. Yugoslavia shouldn't have tried to impose new fake values to everyone, instead it should have incorporated every values there were already on the field, respected them more and make an organization to make them prosper. It greatly failed IMHO because of it's too tight closeness to Communism. All of that is said by me, who will continue to go on Tito's grave in Belgrade, as I already did. He did his good and bad things, and I will remember him for the good ones. They did try to reform, look at what Markovic did. His reforms failed and within a year of success it went crashing down as every single republic opposedthem.
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Post by zgembo on Apr 22, 2009 9:55:33 GMT -5
I think it's silly to argue about the economic benefit of Tito's age. And you don't have to be a communist to like him either. Tito's greatest value was in creating a country with a reputation around the world. We had 20 million people but we were much bigger than that. People from other communist countries envied us. The whole world knew about Yugoslavia and had a positive image of it.
Today we are known for war, nationalism, the mafia. We are associated with "the Balkans", as ugly of a word as there exists. And we are all powerless. It's all so pathetic.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 22, 2009 10:04:15 GMT -5
X2 ^
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Post by radovic on Apr 22, 2009 10:04:44 GMT -5
? Exalt.
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Post by SKORIC on Apr 22, 2009 11:05:47 GMT -5
Stalin came third as Russia's most popular heroes just a few months ago for exactly that reason of bringing his country reputation etc Now im not comparing Tito to Stalin but it goes to show your not a good man and your cause isnt good if you bring your country "reputation". It also shows how much people are still blinded by such men.
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