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Post by albanesehoney on Jan 9, 2008 12:04:33 GMT -5
albanesehoney The ancient knowledge of geometry was passed on to the Greeks. you ve been had (once again) ta ta No one's been had Slow... If you took time to read Niklianos's post to Teuta, you would have seen what his request was, hence this part of the passages debate re: Egyptian contribution to Greeks. I copied for you, since you have little inclination to understand the point of this thread and debate: Actually the Egyptian contributed very little to the Greek world. The Ancient Greek historians always tried to find a reason and connection to an older civilization. So please show us exactly what influences the Egyptians had on the Greeks?Since the Egyptians created, discovered and initiated the Phi method in their engineering principles for their pyramid and temple constructions, You can count this as one of the greatest discoveries for mankind which was later 'handed' to the Greeks, which was brushed up for mental certainty by them. Hence, in mathematics, Greeks did not discover but took or inherited this discovery from the Egyptians/Babylonians. And, in this field, Greeks too were simple copiers of other civilizations's greatest discoveries and triumphs for humanity. Here is the person who discovered what the Egyptians knew before handing the baton to the Greeks.Schwaller de Lubicz who studied the Temple at Luxor from 1837 to 1952 amassed evidence that the Egyptians had used the Golden Mean ratio Phi (-pronounced 'phee' like in Sophie) ingeniously in many ways in the architecture of the temple. Before de Lubicz’s research, the discovery of the Golden Mean was credited to the Greeks. His findings were irrefutable proof that the Egyptians had a mathematical understanding of this remarkable constants a thousand years before Pythagoras and that this knowledge was employed by Egypt's mystery schools to initiate its members into a higher level of consciousness. linkTY Strategos for your support.
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Post by slowdent on Jan 9, 2008 12:46:36 GMT -5
honey the thing is that you missed my other post where I write
The ancient knowledge of geometry was passed on to the Greeks. They seemed to be blessed with an inclination toward speculative thinking and the leisure to pursue this inclination. They insisted that geometric statements be established by deductive reasoning rather than trial and error. This began with Thales of Milete. He was familiar with the computations, right or wrong, handed down from Egyptian and Babylonian mathematics. In determining which of the computations were correct, he developed the first logical geometry. This orderly development of theorems by proof was the distinctive characteristic of Greek mathematics and was new.
here's where I say that you've been had once again.....
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Post by albanesehoney on Jan 9, 2008 13:00:44 GMT -5
The ancient knowledge of geometry was passed on to the Greeks. Slow, this is what negates everything you said. You had yourself...
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Post by slowdent on Jan 9, 2008 13:02:04 GMT -5
if this is your way to admit that you have nothing to say..... suit yourself
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Post by albanesehoney on Jan 9, 2008 13:15:07 GMT -5
This is the point you lost, Golden Mean ratio Phi - one of the cornerstones in the foundation of Geometry is an Egyptian discovery/understanding which was used in the Osiris temple (ca. 2500bc) cuts the point between what is Egyptian and what is Greek. This Golden Mean ratio defines Egyptian discovery in their most ancient temples ancient Luxor. Schwaller de Lubicz who studied the Temple at Luxor from 1837 to 1952 amassed evidence that the Egyptians had used the Golden Mean ratio Phi (-pronounced 'phee' like in Sophie) ingeniously in many ways in the architecture of the temple. Before de Lubicz’s research, the discovery of the Golden Mean was credited to the Greeks. His findings were irrefutable proof that the Egyptians had a mathematical understanding of this remarkable constants a thousand years before Pythagoras and that this knowledge was employed by Egypt's mystery schools to initiate its members into a higher level of consciousness. link
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 9, 2008 13:30:43 GMT -5
.
and yet the very word 'geometry ' is still Greek....
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Post by slowdent on Jan 9, 2008 13:31:12 GMT -5
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Jan 9, 2008 13:39:44 GMT -5
. and yet the very word 'geometry ' is still Greek.... Almost !!! now if you take the word Geometry and add an "isi" to it "Geometrisi"/ Ge ametrisi in its original Pelasgo- illyro form with the syllables cut up Ge Om At Tris ...these words mean the angle of the hind left leg of a goat that is perpendicular to its level under body 42 days before breeding season while its tail is at a 67 degree angle to the sun when its at an acute angle to the earths crust. Ge Om At Tris = G O A Tyou like ;D Exhalt me one for this one baby you got any other word I can decipher for ya Canaris ?
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Post by albanesehoney on Jan 9, 2008 16:38:30 GMT -5
Although Euclid does not use the term, we shall call this the golden ratio. From your link Slow...www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/Golden_ratio.html#s14Phi and the Egyptian Pyramids? The Rhind Papyrus of about 1650 BC is one of the oldest mathematical works in existence, giving methods and problems used by the ancient Babylonians and Egyptians. The papyrus also demonstrates knowledge of solving first order linear equations[3] and summing arithmetic and geometric series.[3] The Egyptian use of proportion in calculation. In the Rhind Papyrus is briefly discussed in Gillings. In particular the use of the Remen which has two values is reflected in the foot which has two values, (the second being the nibw or ell which is two feet), and the cubit which has two values. Doubling is also seen in the subdivisions such as fingers and palms. Since doubling is the basis of most of the unit fraction calculations, up to and including the calculations of circles with dimensions given in khet (see Ancient Egyptian units of measurement), looking at how the remen and seked were used provided many insights to Greek and Roman geometers and architects. In the Rhind Papyrus we first encounter the remen which is defined as the proportion of the diagonal of a rectangle to its sides when its other sides are whole units. In its earliest form it is the diagonal of a square, with its sides a cubit. We also find problems using the seked or unit rise to run proportion. Typical of the Classical orders of the Greeks and Romans, it was built upon the canon of proportions derived from the inscription grids of the Egyptians. This document is one of the main sources of our knowledge of Egyptian mathematics. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhind_Mathematical_Papyrus It's not Greek...Uppps..
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Post by slowdent on Jan 10, 2008 3:01:31 GMT -5
Although Euclid does not use the term, we shall call this the golden ratio.
it is a good thing they did not decide to call it Kebab
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Post by albanesehoney on Jan 11, 2008 2:15:02 GMT -5
Although Euclid does not use the term, we shall call this the golden ratio. it is a good thing they did not decide to call it Kebab No matter what you say Slow, your own link said what Teuta and I have shown...that Egyptians via Babylonians and Caanites-Phoenicians have given Greeks the secret knowledge of Phi to use in their calculation to build their huts and early stone houses in athens. This is the quote from your site slow.. In the beginning geometry was a collection of rules for computing lengths, areas, and volumes. Many were crude approximations derived by trial and error. This body of knowledge, developed and used in construction, navigation, and surveying by the Babylonians and Egyptians, was passed to the Greeks. The Greek historian Herodotus (5th century B.C.) credits the Egyptians with having originated the subject, The Rhind Papyrus shows us how old their earliest conception of : Phi and the Egyptian Pyramids? The Rhind Papyrus of about 1650 BC is one of the oldest mathematical works in existence, giving methods and problems used by the ancient Babylonians and Egyptians.
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Post by Niklianos on Jan 12, 2008 1:15:41 GMT -5
Albhoney you seem to not be understanding what is being stated in the article.
"The ancient knowledge of geometry was passed on to the Greeks. They seemed to be blessed with an inclination toward speculative thinking and the leisure to pursue this inclination. They insisted that geometric statements be established by deductive reasoning rather than trial and error. This began with Thales of Milete. He was familiar with the computations, right or wrong, handed down from Egyptian and Babylonian mathematics. In determining which of the computations were correct, he developed the first logical geometry. This orderly development of theorems by proof was the distinctive characteristic of Greek mathematics and was new.
You are confusing an idea that goes through trial and error to achieve something, which was not called or part of what became geometry. It was the Greeks who created the field and formalized it by creating and developing the theories which we know today call Geometry!
So once again the Greeks created Geometry.
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Post by albanesehoney on Jan 12, 2008 20:49:16 GMT -5
Albhoney you seem to not be understanding what is being stated in the article. "The ancient knowledge of geometry was passed on to the Greeks. They seemed to be blessed with an inclination toward speculative thinking and the leisure to pursue this inclination. They insisted that geometric statements be established by deductive reasoning rather than trial and error. This began with Thales of Milete. He was familiar with the computations, right or wrong, handed down from Egyptian and Babylonian mathematics. In determining which of the computations were correct, he developed the first logical geometry. This orderly development of theorems by proof was the distinctive characteristic of Greek mathematics and was new. You are confusing an idea that goes through trial and error to achieve something, which was not called or part of what became geometry. It was the Greeks who created the field and formalized it by creating and developing the theories which we know today call Geometry! So once again the Greeks created Geometry. I understand clearly what the article said. Calling several self evident truths an "Axiom" and proceeding to prove a postulate from a few Axioms, does not make the Euclid/Greeks "Creators" of this whole ancient foundation of Geometrical mathematical discipline. It just makes the Greeks the 'classifiers and organizers and even pretty good teachers" of this ancient recognized knowledge. That is why Egyptians and Babylonians and Hebrews called it "Sacred Knowledge" and only those worthy can be initiated into this group of learned people who studied and created those 2700BC pyramids from the lower Nile cities to the Upper Nile city of Memphis. Euclid was following in the tradition of the great teachers Socrates and Aristotle. Now, we could give the Greeks this compliment and credit. Creating the whole system of education and classification of knowledge and disciplines.
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Post by Niklianos on Jan 13, 2008 19:09:07 GMT -5
The only thing the Egyptians and Babylonians had were a few Geometric concepts based on trial and error. The Greeks created the science and added much more to the field.
If the Egyptians, Babylonians and the Hebrews considered it "Sacred Knowledge" then why and how could the Greeks have been given geometry? Why would a "Sacred Knowledge" known ONLY by those within a very tight circle give away their secrets to someone outside of their sacred circle and a foreigner?
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jan 13, 2008 19:33:56 GMT -5
"There are good reasons to believe that Greek Mythology is an embellished version of real history. The so-called 'gods' were just ordinary men and women whose deeds have been exaggerated so that they could be made into gods. I will go into this argument in detail in my forthcoming new book, but basically they are as follows: Ouranos and Gaia represent Noah and his wife. Titan, Kronus and Iapetus are Shem, Ham and Japheth. This is evident from a Chaldean fragment (1) which says "After the Flood, Titan and Prometheus lived, and Titan undertook a war against Kronus". Prometheus (not shown in the diagram), is a son of Iapetus in Greek mythology, and he appears in the Chaldean fragment in place of his father. Kronus must be Ham, because he appears in the Egyptian king list of Manetho (2) among the demi-gods that precede the first dynasty. This leaves only Shem to be accounted for, and he is given the name Titan which is a collective name for all the children of Ouranos and Gaia. Kronus achieves notoriety by castrating his father Uranus, an exaggerated version of the story about Ham seeing his father naked in his tent. By comparison of the Greek and Egyptian mythologies, it is possible to show that the Greek Zeus is the Egyptian Osyris, and since he is a son of Ham, he must be Mizraim. Oceanus and Tethys were additional children of Noah, born after the flood (and there is nothing in the Bible to suggest that this should not happen). They got married and had both sons and daughters. Their sons were called 'River Gods' and their daughters were called 'Oceanids'. One of the Oceanids, either Clymene or Asia, married Iapetus (Japheth) and they had a son called Atlas who had a daughter called Electra. She married Zeus who is the same as the Egyptian Osiris and the Biblical Mizraim. Zeus and Electra had a son called Dardanus who became the first king of Troy. References 1. Hodges, E.R., Cory's Ancient Fragments, A New and Enlarged Edition, Reeves & Turner, London, 1876. Facsimile reprints from Ballantrae, Ontario, Canada. This Chaldean fragment is from Alexander Polyhistor.
2. Cory's Ancient Fragments. King list of Manetho.
3. Virgil - The Aneid, Penguin Classics.
4. Cory's Ancient Fragments. See the fragments of Berosus from Apollodorus and Abydenus. And even Greeks (Hellens and Hellenized) believed in 12 Gods, that according to Herodotus, (Book 2.4.1) appears as follows: "IV. But as to human affairs, this was the account in which they all agreed: the Egyptians, they said, were the first men who reckoned by years and made the year consist of twelve divisions of the seasons. They discovered this from the stars (so they said). And their reckoning is, to my mind, a juster one than that of the Greeks; for the Greeks add an intercalary month every other year, so that the seasons agree; but the Egyptians, reckoning thirty days to each of the twelve months, add five days in every year over and above the total, and thus the completed circle of seasons is made to agree with the calendar. [2] Furthermore, the Egyptians (they said) first used the names of twelve gods1 (which the Greeks afterwards borrowed from them); and it was they who first assigned to the several gods their altars and images and temples, and first carved figures on stone. Most of this they showed me in fact to be the case. The first human king of Egypt, they said, was Min. [3] In his time all of Egypt except the Thebaic2 district was a marsh: all the country that we now see was then covered by water, north of lake Moeris,3 which is seven days' journey up the river from the sea". Some people dispute the passages blaiming the translation. (see the bold words above) See, you made me post the same article twice...lol..
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 13, 2008 20:03:12 GMT -5
Where did we get Jesus and the 12 apostles? Why the similarity.... ?
I don't understand the fascination with Egyptians.....? Over at ALbania dot com.... the albs are saying that Albanians were Ancient Greeks.... Modern Greeks are semitic and gypsies... you won't catch them putting Egyptians on a pedestal that would take away from their greatness of coming from ancient stock... Do you understand this mentality? I am sick of it... some of you need testicular electroshock therapy... It's the dreaded Albhoney syndrome.. when claiming Alexander as an alb..... they stopped during the movie which depicted him as gay.... everyone said he is a gay Greek....
Now that faded out, ALex is an alb again.....
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Post by rex362 on Jan 13, 2008 20:14:12 GMT -5
Hillary Clinton is Albanian and Obama is 1/2
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 13, 2008 20:31:47 GMT -5
Martin Luther King and Jesse Jackson are Greeks.
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Post by rex362 on Jan 13, 2008 20:54:29 GMT -5
thats evident ...
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 13, 2008 21:05:50 GMT -5
You been looking in their pants again?
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