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Post by Teuta1975 on Jan 5, 2008 0:37:09 GMT -5
Herodotus - Hostories
LVI. But my own belief about it is this. If the Phoenicians did in fact carry away the sacred women and sell one in Libya and one in Hellas, then, in my opinion, the place where this woman was sold in what is now Hellas, but was formerly called Pelasgia, was Thesprotia; [2] and then, being a slave there, she established a shrine of Zeus under an oak that was growing there; for it was reasonable that, as she had been a handmaid of the temple of Zeus at Thebes , she would remember that temple in the land to which she had come. [3] After this, as soon as she understood the Greek language, she taught divination; and she said that her sister had been sold in Libya by the same Phoenicians who sold her.
LVII. I expect that these women were called “doves” by the people of Dodona because they spoke a strange language, and the people thought it like the cries of birds; [2] then the woman spoke what they could understand, and that is why they say that the dove uttered human speech; as long as she spoke in a foreign tongue, they thought her voice was like the voice of a bird. For how could a dove utter the speech of men? The tale that the dove was black signifies that the woman was Egyptian1 .
[3] The fashions of divination at Thebes of Egypt and at Dodona are like one another; moreover, the practice of divining from the sacrificed victim has also come from Egypt.
LVIII. It would seem, too, that the Egyptians were the first people to establish solemn assemblies, and processions, and services; the Greeks learned all that from them. I consider this proved, because the Egyptian ceremonies are manifestly very ancient, and the Greek are of recent origin.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 5, 2008 1:00:08 GMT -5
In order to asses weather Herodotus said what you found here... you have to go deeper and compare .... People over time have altered the interpretation of what he said to suit their needs... so when I see people quoting him .... I am always 90% sure he is misquoted..
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jan 5, 2008 1:36:21 GMT -5
Tell me your interpretation Canaris...
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 5, 2008 1:42:42 GMT -5
I hate doing that... I want to see what is a universally accepted version of the above script... mind you it could be valid as it is..I just want a little more validation.
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Post by Niklianos on Jan 5, 2008 2:44:03 GMT -5
What is your source for that translation Teuta?
In the Penguin Classics version translated by Aubrey De Selincourt is different and more accurate. You left out a large portion of the passage which leads to his conclusions.
" About the oracles- that of Dodona in Greece and of Ammon in Libya- the Egyptians have the following legend: according to the priests of the Theban Zeus, two women connected with the service of the temple were carried off by the Phoenicians and sold, one in Libya and the other in Greece, and it was these women who founded the oracles in the two countries. I asked the priests at Thebes what grounds they had for being so sure about this, and they told me that careful search had been made for the women at the time, and that though it was unsuccessful, they had afterwards learned that the facts were just as they had reported them. At Dodona, however, the priestesses who deliver the oracles have a different version of the story: two black doves, they say, flew away from Thebes in Egypt, and one of them alighted at Dodona, the other in Libya. The former, perched on an oak, and speaking with a human voice, told them that there, on that very spot, there should be an oracle of Zeus. Those who heard her understood the words to be a command from heaven, and at once obeyed. Similarly the dove which flew to Libya told the Libyans to found the oracle of Ammon- which is also an oracle of Zeus. The people who gave me this information were the three priestesses at Dodona - Promeneia the eldest, Timarete the next, and Nicandra the youngest - and their account is confirmed by the other Dodonaeans connected with the temple. Personally, however, I would suggest that if the Phoenicians really carried off the women from the temple and sold them respectively in Libya and Greece, the one who was brought to Greece (or Pelasgia as it was the called) must have been sold to the Thesprotians; and later, while she was working as a slave in that part of the country, she built, under an oak that happened to be growing there, a shrine to Zeus; for she would naturally remebber in her exile the god whom she had served in her native Thebes. Subsequently, when she had learned to speak Greek, she established an oracle there, and mentioned, in addition, that the same Phoenicians who had sold her, also sold her sister in Libya. The story which the people of Dodona tell about the doves came, I should say, from the fact that the women were foreigners, whose language sounded to them like the twittering of birds; later on the dove spoke with a human voice, because by that time the woman had stopped twittering and learned to talk intelligibly. That, at least, is how I should explain the the obvious impossibility of a dove using the language of men. As to the bird being black, they merely signify by this that the woman was an Egyptian. It is certainly true that the oracles at Thebes and Dodona are similar in character. Another form of divination - by the inspection of sacrificial victims - also came from Egypt.
It was the Egyptians too who originated, and taught the Greeks to use ceremonial meetings, processions, and processional offerings: a fact which can be inferred from the obvious antiquity of such ceremonies in Egypt, compared with Greece, where they have been only recently introduced. The Egyptians mee i solemn assembly not once a year only, but on a number occasions, the most importan and best attended being the festival of Artemis at Bubastis:........."
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Post by Niklianos on Jan 5, 2008 2:44:37 GMT -5
Now that we have a full version what is it that you like about the passages?
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jan 5, 2008 13:33:04 GMT -5
Mine is taken from: Herodotus "Histories", 2:54-57-58 I don't know what translation is the one of yours, but my translation is from Alfred Denis Godley. You could find it at Perseus too. And in all other places where Herodotus is quoted is quoted excactly from the following Greek language: in Greek now: LIV. chrêstêriôn* de peri tou te en Hellêsi kai tou en Libuêi tonde Aiguptioi logon legousi. ephasan hoi hirees tou Thêbaieos Dios duo gunaikas hireias ek Thêbeôn exachthênai hupo Phoinikôn, kai tên men auteôn puthesthai es Libuên prêtheisan tên de es tous Hellênas: tautas de tas gunaikas einai tas hidrusamenas ta mantêia prôtas en toisi eirêmenoisi ethnesi. [2] eiromenou de meu hokothen houtô atrekeôs epistamenoi legousi, ephasan pros tauta zêtêsin megalên apo spheôn genesthai tôn gunaikôn touteôn, kai aneurein men spheas ou dunatoi genesthai, puthesthai de husteron tauta peri auteôn ta per dê elegon. LV. tauta men nun tôn en Thêbêisi hireôn êkouon, tade de Dôdônaiôn phasi hai promanties*: duo peleiadas melainas ek Thêbeôn tôn Aiguptieôn anaptamenas tên men auteôn es Libuên tên de para spheas apikesthai, [2] hizomenên de min epi phêgon audaxasthai phônêi anthrôpêiêi hôs chreon eiê mantêion autothi Dios genesthai, kai autous hupolabein theion einai to epangellomenon autoisi, kai spheas ek toutou poiêsai. [3] tên de es tous Libuas oichomenên peleiada legousi Ammônos chrêstêrion keleusai tous Libuas poieein: esti de kai touto Dios. Dôdônaiôn de hai hireiai, tôn têi presbutatêi ounoma ên Promeneia, têi de meta tautên Timaretê, têi de neôtatêi Nikandrê, elegon tauta: sunômologeon de sphi kai hoi alloi Dôdônaioi hoi peri to hiron. LVI. egô d' echô peri autôn gnômên tênde: ei alêtheôs hoi Phoinikes exêgagon tas hiras gunaikas kai tên men auteôn es Libuên tên de es tên Ellada apedonto, dokeei emoi hê gunê hautê tês nun Hellados*, proteron de Pelasgiês kaleumenês tês autês tautês*, prêthênai es Thesprôtous, [2] epeita douleuousa autothi hidrusasthai hupo phêgôi pephukuiêi* hiron Dios, hôsper ên oikos amphipoleuousan en Thêbêisi hiron Dios, entha apiketo, enthauta mnêmên autou echein: [3] ek de toutou chrêstêrion katêgêsato*, epeite sunelabe tên Hellada glôssan: phanai de hoi adelpheên en Libuêi peprêsthai hupo tôn autôn Phoinikôn hup' hôn kai autê eprêthê. LVII. peleiades de moi dokeousi klêthênai pros Dôdônaiôn epi toude hai gunaikes, dioti barbaroi êsan, edokeon de sphi homoiôs ornisi phthengesthai: [2] meta de chronon tên peleiada* anthrôpêiêi phônêi audaxasthai legousi, epeite suneta sphi êuda hê gunê: heôs de ebarbarize+, ornithos tropon edokee sphi phthengesthai, epei teôi an tropôi peleias ge anthrôpêiêi phônêi phthenxaito; melainan de legontes einai tên peleiada sêmainousi hoti Aiguptiê hê gunê ên. [3] hê de mantêiê hê te en Thêbêisi têisi Aiguptiêisi kai en Dôdônêi paraplêsiai allêlêisi tunchanousi eousai. esti de kai tôn hirôn* hê mantikê ap' Aiguptou apigmenê. LVIII. panêguris de ara kai pompas kai prosagôgas prôtoi anthrôpôn Aiguptioi eisi hoi poiêsamenoi, kai para toutôn Hellênes memathêkasi. tekmêrion de moi toutou tode: hai men gar phainontai ek pollou teu chronou poieumenai, hai de Hellênikai neôsti epoiêthêsan. What I like in both passages is that Egyptians contributed much in Greek's world....
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Post by Niklianos on Jan 5, 2008 14:45:47 GMT -5
Actually the Egyptian contributed very little to the Greek world. The Ancient Greek historians always tried to find a reason and connection to an older civilization. They were always trying to figure out where their rituals and traditions started. It is acknowledged by most experts today that the Egyptians had little influence on the Greeks. Their religious practices were completely different, their belief in the after life was different and their customs were completely different. The only thing in Greece that was influenced by the Egyptians was the Archaic period Kouroi statues. You can look it up yourself and see the differences. Here is a book that discusses such issues. Read the passages yourself. linkSo please show us exactly what influences the Egyptians had on the Greeks?
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Post by albanesehoney on Jan 5, 2008 18:32:35 GMT -5
Actually the Egyptian contributed very little to the Greek world. The Ancient Greek historians always tried to find a reason and connection to an older civilization. They were always trying to figure out where their rituals and traditions started. It is acknowledged by most experts today that the Egyptians had little influence on the Greeks. Their religious practices were completely different, their belief in the after life was different and their customs were completely different. The only thing in Greece that was influenced by the Egyptians was the Archaic period Kouroi statues. You can look it up yourself and see the differences. Here is a book that discusses such issues. Read the passages yourself. linkSo please show us exactly what influences the Egyptians had on the Greeks? With pleasure.. Through the "Caananites/Phoenicians, this is what Greeks "copped" from Egyptians. 1. Geometry (sacred or not)...Egyptian, when 'greeks were known as Phoenicians or went under in their dark ages. The original unfinished "flower of life" can be found on several pillars within "The Osireon"(The tomb of Osiris) at Abydos in Egypt. link2. Language writing, the Alphabet.. webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/alphabet.htmlThe Origin of the Alphabet The original alphabet was developed by a Semitic people living in or near Egypt.* They based it on the idea developed by the Egyptians, but used their own specific symbols. It was quickly adopted by their neighbors and relatives to the east and north, the Canaanites, the Hebrews, and the Phoenicians. The Phoenicians spread their alphabet to other people of the Near East and Asia Minor, as well as to the Arabs, the Greeks, and the Etruscans, and as far west as present day Spain. The letters and names on the left are the ones used by the Phoenicians. The letters on the right are possible earlier versions. If you don't recognize the letters, keep in mind that they have since been reversed (since the Phoenicians wrote from right to left) and often turned on their sides! 3. Medicine in Ancient Egypt..2500BC they were treating people with all kinds of afflictions prior to Greeks even conceiving Medicine. MEDICINE IN ANCIENT EGYPT Hesyre was the oldest known physician in history. He was the “Chief of Dentists and Physicians” at the time of King Zoser (3rd dynasty, 2700 - 2625 BC). link4. The whole Oedipus story was based on the Pharoah Ahknaten story. home-3.tiscali.nl/~meester7/engoedipus.htmlNiklianos, would you like me to continue? ;D
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jan 5, 2008 22:22:35 GMT -5
I have deleted all the poetry and I will have it reposted in another thread as they have no connection with the thread here which I find interesting.
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Post by Niklianos on Jan 8, 2008 23:23:24 GMT -5
Actually the Egyptian contributed very little to the Greek world. The Ancient Greek historians always tried to find a reason and connection to an older civilization. They were always trying to figure out where their rituals and traditions started. It is acknowledged by most experts today that the Egyptians had little influence on the Greeks. Their religious practices were completely different, their belief in the after life was different and their customs were completely different. The only thing in Greece that was influenced by the Egyptians was the Archaic period Kouroi statues. You can look it up yourself and see the differences. Here is a book that discusses such issues. Read the passages yourself. linkSo please show us exactly what influences the Egyptians had on the Greeks? With pleasure.. Through the "Caananites/Phoenicians, this is what Greeks "copped" from Egyptians. 1. Geometry (sacred or not)...Egyptian, when 'greeks were known as Phoenicians or went under in their dark ages. The original unfinished "flower of life" can be found on several pillars within "The Osireon"(The tomb of Osiris) at Abydos in Egypt. link2. Language writing, the Alphabet.. webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/alphabet.htmlThe Origin of the Alphabet The original alphabet was developed by a Semitic people living in or near Egypt.* They based it on the idea developed by the Egyptians, but used their own specific symbols. It was quickly adopted by their neighbors and relatives to the east and north, the Canaanites, the Hebrews, and the Phoenicians. The Phoenicians spread their alphabet to other people of the Near East and Asia Minor, as well as to the Arabs, the Greeks, and the Etruscans, and as far west as present day Spain. The letters and names on the left are the ones used by the Phoenicians. The letters on the right are possible earlier versions. If you don't recognize the letters, keep in mind that they have since been reversed (since the Phoenicians wrote from right to left) and often turned on their sides! 3. Medicine in Ancient Egypt..2500BC they were treating people with all kinds of afflictions prior to Greeks even conceiving Medicine. MEDICINE IN ANCIENT EGYPT Hesyre was the oldest known physician in history. He was the “Chief of Dentists and Physicians” at the time of King Zoser (3rd dynasty, 2700 - 2625 BC). link4. The whole Oedipus story was based on the Pharoah Ahknaten story. home-3.tiscali.nl/~meester7/engoedipus.htmlNiklianos, would you like me to continue? ;D Incorrect for as for Geometry! The Babylonians knew about geometry earlier than the Egyptians. This geometry was a very basic form that was primarily based on 'trial and error' and were never formalized. www.math.uncc.edu/~droyster/math3181/notes/hyprgeom/node4.htmlThe ancient knowledge of geometry was passed on to the Greeks. They seemed to be blessed with an inclination toward speculative thinking and the leisure to pursue this inclination. They insisted that geometric statements be established by deductive reasoning rather than trial and error. This began with Thales of Milete. He was familiar with the computations, right or wrong, handed down from Egyptian and Babylonian mathematics. In determining which of the computations were correct, he developed the first logical geometry. This orderly development of theorems by proof was the distinctive characteristic of Greek mathematics and was new. This new mathematics of Thales was continued over the next two centuries by Pythagoras and his disciples. The Pythagoreans, as a religious sect, believed that the elevation of the soul and union with God were achieved by the study of music and mathematics. Nonetheless, they developed a large body of mathematics by using the deductive method. T heir foundation of plane geometry was brought to a conclusion around 400 B.C. in the Elements by the mathematician Hippocrates. This treatise has been lost, but many historians agree that it probably covered most of Books I-IV of Euclid's Elements, which appeared about a century later, circa 300 B.C. As for the Flower of Life: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower_of_LifeEgypt, the oldest known example The Temple of Osiris at Abydos, Egypt contains the oldest known examples of the Flower of Life.[4][10] Corroborated photographic evidence of Greek text, still to be deciphered, alongside the FOL circles shows that these can be dated to no earlier than 535 B.C.[1] and may be as late as 400 A.D.Possibly five Flower of Life patterns can be seen on one of the granite columns of the Osirion. Some are very faint and hard to distinguish. They have not been carved into the granite being drawn in red ochre with careful precision.[1] So it seems that it is believed that it may be no older than the 5th century a.c.e. You must remember that Greeks ruled Egypt for more than 250 years! Even after the Romans defeated Cleopatra the Greeks were still heavily influential in Egypt. COnsidering that the Greeks were the ones who created logical Geometry then it is most likely of Greek geometric origin. Oedipus = Akhenaton That is pure conjecture and a huge stretch. Everything mentioned can be manipulated to fit different events and people. Just like Nostradamus. www-english.tamu.edu/pers/fac/dickson/oedipus.notes.htm1. What is the sequence of events in the undoing of Oedipus? * Laius is warned by Apollo that if he has a son, his son will kill him. * Laius ignores warning; he has a son, but pierces his ankles and abandons him to die. * Shepherd gives him to the Corinthian shepherd/messenger who then gives the child to Polybus. * Oedipus goes to Delphi to learn who his father is; there he learns he will lie with his mother and kill his father. * Oedipus tries to escape the oracles by fleeing from Corinth. * Laius is on his way to Delphi when he is met and killed by Oedipus. * a plague descends on Thebes--the riddling Sphinx. * Oedipus solves the riddle. * Shepherd returns to find Oedipus on the throne; he asks to be sent away . . . MANY YEARS LATER . . . * another plague descends on the city. * Creon is sent to Delphi. * Creon returns with the news that an old defilement is the cause of the pollution. * Tiresias proclaims Oedipus is the pollutant. * Oedipus sends for the Shepherd to determine how many men killed Laius. * Messenger appears with news of Polybus' death. Oedipus thinks he has outwitted the prophecies. * the true origin of Oedipus is revealed. * Jocasta hangs herself. * Oedipus blinds himself. So out of all these main events how many are similar to Akhenatons story both ASSUMED and factual?? By the way the name Thebes is Greek! The city in Egypt was called Thebes by the Greeks. The Egyptians called it 'Niwt' = The City. Look it up. So it throws that ridiculous theory out the window with just one of the first ASSUMPTIONS made by the person your used as a source! As of rmedicine that predates the Egyptians and goes all the way back to the Upper Paleolithic (30,000 years ago) and later as far back as 7,000 years ago in Neolithic EUROPE! So why is it not possible that medicine such as many other things developed seperately in various parts of the world naturally. After all it was a natural part of survival for humans to want to cure and heal ailments. Just because something was written down first in one area such as Mesopotamia and later Egypt does not mean that medicine originated there! That is poor logic. It like saying that since the oldest written text about medicine was in Mesopotamia that all other humans learned from them. So that would lead to a conclusion that all other humans just died from their wounds, sicknesses and injuries! That would be a purely idiotic view of humanity! Yes Teuta BRING IT ON! I really enjoy being challenged!
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Post by Niklianos on Jan 8, 2008 23:42:58 GMT -5
Actually the Egyptian contributed very little to the Greek world. The Ancient Greek historians always tried to find a reason and connection to an older civilization. They were always trying to figure out where their rituals and traditions started. It is acknowledged by most experts today that the Egyptians had little influence on the Greeks. Their religious practices were completely different, their belief in the after life was different and their customs were completely different. The only thing in Greece that was influenced by the Egyptians was the Archaic period Kouroi statues. You can look it up yourself and see the differences. Here is a book that discusses such issues. Read the passages yourself. linkSo please show us exactly what influences the Egyptians had on the Greeks? With pleasure.. Through the "Caananites/Phoenicians, this is what Greeks "copped" from Egyptians. 1. Geometry (sacred or not)...Egyptian, when 'greeks were known as Phoenicians or went under in their dark ages. The original unfinished "flower of life" can be found on several pillars within "The Osireon"(The tomb of Osiris) at Abydos in Egypt. link2. Language writing, the Alphabet.. webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/alphabet.htmlThe Origin of the Alphabet The original alphabet was developed by a Semitic people living in or near Egypt.* They based it on the idea developed by the Egyptians, but used their own specific symbols. It was quickly adopted by their neighbors and relatives to the east and north, the Canaanites, the Hebrews, and the Phoenicians. The Phoenicians spread their alphabet to other people of the Near East and Asia Minor, as well as to the Arabs, the Greeks, and the Etruscans, and as far west as present day Spain. The letters and names on the left are the ones used by the Phoenicians. The letters on the right are possible earlier versions. If you don't recognize the letters, keep in mind that they have since been reversed (since the Phoenicians wrote from right to left) and often turned on their sides! 3. Medicine in Ancient Egypt..2500BC they were treating people with all kinds of afflictions prior to Greeks even conceiving Medicine. MEDICINE IN ANCIENT EGYPT Hesyre was the oldest known physician in history. He was the “Chief of Dentists and Physicians” at the time of King Zoser (3rd dynasty, 2700 - 2625 BC). link4. The whole Oedipus story was based on the Pharoah Ahknaten story. home-3.tiscali.nl/~meester7/engoedipus.htmlNiklianos, would you like me to continue? ;D Incorrect for as for Geometry! The Babylonians knew about geometry earlier than the Egyptians. This geometry was a very basic form that was primarily based on 'trial and error' and were never formalized. www.math.uncc.edu/~droyster/math3181/notes/hyprgeom/node4.htmlThe ancient knowledge of geometry was passed on to the Greeks. They seemed to be blessed with an inclination toward speculative thinking and the leisure to pursue this inclination. They insisted that geometric statements be established by deductive reasoning rather than trial and error. This began with Thales of Milete. He was familiar with the computations, right or wrong, handed down from Egyptian and Babylonian mathematics. In determining which of the computations were correct, he developed the first logical geometry. This orderly development of theorems by proof was the distinctive characteristic of Greek mathematics and was new. This new mathematics of Thales was continued over the next two centuries by Pythagoras and his disciples. The Pythagoreans, as a religious sect, believed that the elevation of the soul and union with God were achieved by the study of music and mathematics. Nonetheless, they developed a large body of mathematics by using the deductive method. T heir foundation of plane geometry was brought to a conclusion around 400 B.C. in the Elements by the mathematician Hippocrates. This treatise has been lost, but many historians agree that it probably covered most of Books I-IV of Euclid's Elements, which appeared about a century later, circa 300 B.C. As for the Flower of Life: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower_of_LifeEgypt, the oldest known example The Temple of Osiris at Abydos, Egypt contains the oldest known examples of the Flower of Life.[4][10] Corroborated photographic evidence of Greek text, still to be deciphered, alongside the FOL circles shows that these can be dated to no earlier than 535 B.C.[1] and may be as late as 400 A.D.Possibly five Flower of Life patterns can be seen on one of the granite columns of the Osirion. Some are very faint and hard to distinguish. They have not been carved into the granite being drawn in red ochre with careful precision.[1] So it seems that it is believed that it may be no older than the 5th century a.c.e. You must remember that Greeks ruled Egypt for more than 250 years! Even after the Romans defeated Cleopatra the Greeks were still heavily influential in Egypt. COnsidering that the Greeks were the ones who created logical Geometry then it is most likely of Greek geometric origin. Oedipus = Akhenaton That is pure conjecture and a huge stretch. Everything mentioned can be manipulated to fit different events and people. Just like Nostradamus. www-english.tamu.edu/pers/fac/dickson/oedipus.notes.htm1. What is the sequence of events in the undoing of Oedipus? * Laius is warned by Apollo that if he has a son, his son will kill him. * Laius ignores warning; he has a son, but pierces his ankles and abandons him to die. * Shepherd gives him to the Corinthian shepherd/messenger who then gives the child to Polybus. * Oedipus goes to Delphi to learn who his father is; there he learns he will lie with his mother and kill his father. * Oedipus tries to escape the oracles by fleeing from Corinth. * Laius is on his way to Delphi when he is met and killed by Oedipus. * a plague descends on Thebes--the riddling Sphinx. * Oedipus solves the riddle. * Shepherd returns to find Oedipus on the throne; he asks to be sent away . . . MANY YEARS LATER . . . * another plague descends on the city. * Creon is sent to Delphi. * Creon returns with the news that an old defilement is the cause of the pollution. * Tiresias proclaims Oedipus is the pollutant. * Oedipus sends for the Shepherd to determine how many men killed Laius. * Messenger appears with news of Polybus' death. Oedipus thinks he has outwitted the prophecies. * the true origin of Oedipus is revealed. * Jocasta hangs herself. * Oedipus blinds himself. So out of all these main events how many are similar to Akhenatons story both ASSUMED and factual?? By the way the name Thebes is Greek! The city in Egypt was called Thebes by the Greeks. The Egyptians called it 'Niwt' = The City. Look it up. So it throws that ridiculous theory out the window with just one of the first ASSUMPTIONS made by the person your used as a source! As of rmedicine that predates the Egyptians and goes all the way back to the Upper Paleolithic (30,000 years ago) and later as far back as 7,000 years ago in Neolithic EUROPE! So why is it not possible that medicine such as many other things developed seperately in various parts of the world naturally. After all it was a natural part of survival for humans to want to cure and heal ailments. Just because something was written down first in one area such as Mesopotamia and later Egypt does not mean that medicine originated there! That is poor logic. It like saying that since the oldest written text about medicine was in Mesopotamia that all other humans learned from them. So that would lead to a conclusion that all other humans just died from their wounds, sicknesses and injuries! That would be a purely idiotic view of humanity! Yes Teuta BRING IT ON! I really enjoy being challenged!
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jan 8, 2008 23:56:24 GMT -5
You posted the same thread twice! But I can give you only one carma for now... Anyway, I'll be back on this when I have more time. PS: I like who likes to be challenged.
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Post by albanesehoney on Jan 9, 2008 0:08:56 GMT -5
1. The Origins of Geometry Nik's site... In the beginning geometry was a collection of rules for computing lengths, areas, and volumes. Many were crude approximations derived by trial and error. This body of knowledge, developed and used in construction, navigation, and surveying by the Babylonians and Egyptians, was passed to the Greeks. www.math.uncc.edu/~droyster/math3181/notes/hyprgeom/node4.htmlGood link, said what I did. lolol ;D Here's another to refute your claim... Schwaller de Lubicz who studied the Temple at Luxor from 1837 to 1952 amassed evidence that the Egyptians had used the Golden Mean ratio Phi (-pronounced 'phee' like in Sophie) ingeniously in many ways in the architecture of the temple. Before de Lubicz’s research, the discovery of the Golden Mean was credited to the Greeks. His findings were irrefutable proof that the Egyptians had a mathematical understanding of this remarkable constants a thousand years before Pythagoras and that this knowledge was employed by Egypt's mystery schools to initiate its members into a higher level of consciousness. linkThe Flower of Life (commonly abbreviated as FOL) is the modern name given to a geometrical figure composed of multiple evenly-spaced, overlapping circles, that are arranged so that they form a flower-like pattern with a sixfold symmetry like a hexagon. The center of each circle is on the circumference of six surrounding circles of the same diameter. The earliest known example of the Flower of Life symbol dates to at least 400AD, and is possibly much older than that.[Good site, it repeats the same info I gave you...lololahahahh!! 2. Ahkanaten story..Wiki doesn't cite this claim. =http://www-english.tamu.edu/pers/fac/thingyson/oedipus.notes.htm "The Web site cannot be found The Web site you are trying to access has an IP address that is configured not to accept requests that specify a port number. " Get a better link or site that corroborates your claim. hehehe... Here, bone up on the dynastic periods in Ancient Egypt and open your eyes to who gave birth to knowledge and worship of God. Predynastic period Early Dynastic Old Kingdom First Intermediate Middle Kingdom Second Intermediate New Kingdom Third Intermediate Late period Graeco-Roman period www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/armarnafamily.htmlSuggested dates for Akhenaten's reign (subject to the debates surrounding Egyptian chronology) are from 1353 BC-1336 BC or 1351 BC–1334 BC. Akhenaten's chief wife was Nefertiti, made world-famous by the discovery of her exquisitely moulded and painted bust, now displayed in the Altes Museum of Berlin, and among the most recognised works of art surviving from the ancient world. In case you forgot, Greeks got their letters ca. 800bc, with Homer's first works. 1350/1335bc, Greeks were in their dark age period. Oh, and you had yet to be called "Greek". lololololol!!! 3. On the Alphabet:Ancient graffiti may display oldest alphabetLOS ANGELES (AP) Researchers have photographed what may be the earliest known alphabetical writing — graffiti carved by Semitic soldiers on an Egyptian cliff wall about 4,000 years ago. link More on the alphabet... US scientists believe they have found the earliest surviving alphabet in ancient Egyptian limestone inscriptionsnews.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/521235.stm4000 years ago? lol...no such thing as Greece existed in the known world. Keep bringing it Niklianos, you need to brush up on your websites. They all either repeat what I said or they don't exist. Basically Nik ,you need to brush up on your debating skills,... BTW Nik, what's up with double posting of your message? You know I'd get to it sooner or later.
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Post by grksdied4you on Jan 9, 2008 8:18:06 GMT -5
AlbaneseHoney,
Brush up on your manners. You should be banned from these boards all together.
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nina
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by nina on Jan 9, 2008 9:08:47 GMT -5
You know why I like herodotus in whole?
He doesn't mention albanians anywhere. ;D
As for the heritage of greek culture the answers are all in the magnificent culture of Minoans.
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Post by slowdent on Jan 9, 2008 9:12:21 GMT -5
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Post by slowdent on Jan 9, 2008 9:16:27 GMT -5
albanesehoney www.math.uncc.edu/~droyster/math3181/notes/hyprgeom/node4.htmlif you read 2 paragraphs below The ancient knowledge of geometry was passed on to the Greeks. They seemed to be blessed with an inclination toward speculative thinking and the leisure to pursue this inclination. They insisted that geometric statements be established by deductive reasoning rather than trial and error. This began with Thales of Milete. He was familiar with the computations, right or wrong, handed down from Egyptian and Babylonian mathematics. In determining which of the computations were correct, he developed the first logical geometry. This orderly development of theorems by proof was the distinctive characteristic of Greek mathematics and was new. you ve been had (once again) ta ta
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Post by greekslav on Jan 9, 2008 9:17:55 GMT -5
AlbaneseHoney, Brush up on your manners. You should be banned from these boards all together. Why? All I see is Albanese Honey responding to a discussion. Her responses simply goes againest your beliefs. Make discussion and stop changing the subject because you can not respond.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 9, 2008 9:19:47 GMT -5
You know why I like herodotus in whole? He doesn't mention albanians anywhere. ;D As for the heritage of greek culture the answers are all in the magnificent culture of Minoans. Welcome Nina.... to Illyria forums... or the zoo.... ;D
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