highduke
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Post by highduke on Nov 4, 2007 10:34:35 GMT -5
www.geocities.com/capitolhill/lobby/7681/index.htmlThe Alexiad by Anna Comnena a chronicle of the events of the late 11th century: Medieval Dalmatia was populated and ruled by Serbs This section features scanned pages from a translation of The Alexiad by Byzantine scholar E.R.A Sewtrer originally written in 1125 AD. The author was a noblewoman of the ruling house of Byzantium. She is unsurprisingly anti-Serb because the Serb princes of Zeta had brought all Serbs outside of Byzantium under their rule and were warring with Byzantium to liberate Lipenium (Lipnik, Kosovo) & the Zygum Mountains (Prokletije, Kosovo). This is the period immediately following Croatia’s voluntary forfeiting of its independence to Hungary and gives us a good look at the ethnic order of Dalmatia, Kosovo & Macedonia right after Croatia’s brief occupation of Dalmatia and B&H that started in 920 AD, had ended. Comnena refers to Serbs and Dalmatians in the same sense. Comnena refers to Vukan (Bolkan) and Bodin (Bodinus) Nemanjic as Dalmatians several times and she identifies Dalmatia, Zeta, Serbia and Raska as Serb lands ruled by Vukan & Bodin’s royal house. Comnena also shows that no croatization of the Dalmatian population ever occurred during their brief Medieval occupation by Croatia. The map below shows, among other things, the city of Servia in the vicinity of Thessaloniki founded by the Serbs in the 6th century, still standing in the late 11th century, Map of the Roman Empire in 1118 AD (taken from 1969 translation) Excerpts from Books 1 and 2 Excerpts from Books 1 and 4 Excerpts from Books 6 and 7 Excerpts from Books 8 and 9 Excerpts from Book 12 Genealogy of the Medieval Rulers of Dalmatia: from the House of Nemanjic
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Nov 5, 2007 11:25:36 GMT -5
^ Dude this is instigatory. This is about Serbs not about Croatia. So it belongs in your Subforum or it belongs in the Serbia Forum. At this rate, you should be lucky to even claim Kosovo at the rate things are going. Dude calm yourself, and quit spreading propaganda that will instigate people to be a$$holes to you.
If another Mod agrees with me, this will be locked and eventually moved to your subforum.
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highduke
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Post by highduke on Nov 5, 2007 12:14:28 GMT -5
This is about a territory occupied by Croatia whose people think they are ethnic Croats, when they are merely Croatianized Serbs.
Expect more provocatory threads in the future.
Threads can't be deleted in the New Illlyria Forums.
This means that I can start my project of integrating my website into Illyria forums.
I'll elaborate later.
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Demonel
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Post by Demonel on Nov 5, 2007 13:51:29 GMT -5
Highdyke trebo bi se zapitati da li je Kosovo ikad bilo Srpsko, pusti ti moju Dalmaciju na miru.
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Post by radovic on Nov 5, 2007 17:04:06 GMT -5
Those claims are idiot. Historical documents refer to the populations in Dalmatia mostly as Morlachs (a Vlach grouping that no longer exists) well into the 18th century. For your claim to be valid one must assume that Vlach was synonymous with Serb in the area, and it was not. Catholic Morlachs = Croats, Orthodox Morlachs = Serb. The only area of the Croatian coast where one can definitively claim that the population was at any time Serb might be Dubrovnik where in the 19th century. The reason I say is because a large number of Dubrovnik catholics in the 19th century came to epouse a Serb national ideology and political goals ( links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0037-6779%28198323%2942%3A3%3C448%3ATC%22ATD%3E2.0.CO%3B2-O&size=LARGE). Before someone claims that this is propaganda the peace I link to was written by Ivo Banac -- a Croat.
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highduke
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Post by highduke on Nov 5, 2007 17:13:27 GMT -5
radovic:
Your link is to an article by Croatian historian Ivo Banac and has no original documentation.
I can provide more documents proving that Dalmatia is Serbian. And I will in the fututre.
For now, people had better start considering the possibility that Catholics & Muslims in B&H, Dalmatia & Raska had Serb ancestors in the medieval period.
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Post by radovic on Nov 5, 2007 17:17:41 GMT -5
radovic: Your link is to an article by Croatian historian Ivo Banac and has no original documentation. I can provide more documents proving that Dalmatia is Serbian. And I will in the fututre. For now, people had better start considering the possibility that Catholics & Muslims in B&H, Dalmatia & Raska had Serb ancestors in the medieval period. I think it sources. The article is 27 pages, only 1 shows up -- " one needs to be a subscriber to JSTOR to see rest (I am not).
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highduke
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Post by highduke on Nov 6, 2007 9:47:32 GMT -5
What difference does it make. Banac obviously doesn't include Anna Comnena's account. Or the FULL account of De Administrando Imperio, which is also located on my website. www.geocities.com/capitolhill/lobby/7681/index.htmlDe Administrando Imperio by Byzantine Emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus a chronicle of the events of the early 7th & 10th centuries: Macedonia, Bosnia, Hercegovina, Dalmatia & Serbia were populated & ruled by SerbsThis section features scanned pages from the only available English translation of De Administrando Imperio by Byzantine scholar Gyula Moravcsik The Serbs had been resettled from Macedonia to Bosnia, Hercegovina, Dalmatia, Zeta & Raska by the same Emperor Heraclius who had invited both Serbs & Croats to settle in the Balkans. According to Porphyrogenitus, Serbs formed the original population of those regions from the early 7th century up to 955 AD . This means that D.A.I was written a full 2 decades after Bosnia & Dalmatia had been first occupied by Croatia De Administrando Imperio is rejected by Catholic and Muslim academics in Bosnia & Croatia, although it is internationally recognized. They reject this work because it so clearly and specifically identifies Bosnia, Hercegovina & Dalmatia as exclusively Serb populated territory that it leaves no room for legitimate debate or questioning. The Medieval Dalmatian state of Travunija The Medieval Dalmatian State of Pagania / Arenta The Medieval Dalmatian State of Zahumlje Thhe Medieval Serbian Territory of Bosnia The Cetina River of Dalmatia: The Border Between Serb Lands and Croatia Examining the Foreign Policy of Byzantium toward the Serbs & Croats 610 AD – 630 AD
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Demonel
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Post by Demonel on Nov 6, 2007 11:19:47 GMT -5
Slab si ti meni sa DAI, ironija je veca kad spominjes "the FULL account of De Administrando Imperio", koga ti zajebavas? Znas li ti sta uopste pise u cjelom DAI-u? Ako neznas mogu te i to nauciti, samo reci.
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highduke
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Post by highduke on Nov 6, 2007 16:43:58 GMT -5
Pokazi mi.
Tacno znam sta pise. Znas i ti. Nema nista o Hrvatima u BiH i Dalmaciji a kao sto vidis, ima mnogo o SRBIMA.
Priznaj svoje srpsko poreklo i ne brukaj vise tvoje Srpske dedove koji bi te smatrali izdajnikom.
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Post by terroreign on Nov 6, 2007 17:41:01 GMT -5
Bodin je bio dukljanin, nije on bio srbin sto deres ti stari nemas ti dokaz da reci ovo
I zeta nije srpska nikad bila, pravi ime je bila Duklja, ali srbi su ratovali s nama i pobjedili, i onda su promjenili ime za "Zetu"
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highduke
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Post by highduke on Nov 6, 2007 19:09:16 GMT -5
Kako nemam kad se to Bosin spominje kao Srpski kralj ovde dole:www.geocities.com/capitolhill/lobby/7681/index.htmlThe Alexiad by Anna Comnena a chronicle of the events of the late 11th century: Medieval Dalmatia was populated and ruled by Serbs This section features scanned pages from a translation of The Alexiad by Byzantine scholar E.R.A Sewtrer originally written in 1125 AD. The author was a noblewoman of the ruling house of Byzantium. She is unsurprisingly anti-Serb because the Serb princes of Zeta had brought all Serbs outside of Byzantium under their rule and were warring with Byzantium to liberate Lipenium (Lipnik, Kosovo) & the Zygum Mountains (Prokletije, Kosovo). This is the period immediately following Croatia’s voluntary forfeiting of its independence to Hungary and gives us a good look at the ethnic order of Dalmatia, Kosovo & Macedonia right after Croatia’s brief occupation of Dalmatia and B&H that started in 920 AD, had ended. Comnena refers to Serbs and Dalmatians in the same sense. Comnena refers to Vukan (Bolkan) and Bodin (Bodinus) Nemanjic as Dalmatians several times and she identifies Dalmatia, Zeta, Serbia and Raska as Serb lands ruled by Vukan & Bodin’s royal house. Comnena also shows that no croatization of the Dalmatian population ever occurred during their brief Medieval occupation by Croatia. The map below shows, among other things, the city of Servia in the vicinity of Thessaloniki founded by the Serbs in the 6th century, still standing in the late 11th century, Map of the Roman Empire in 1118 AD (taken from 1969 translation) Excerpts from Books 1 and 2 Excerpts from Books 1 and 4 Excerpts from Books 6 and 7 Excerpts from Books 8 and 9 Excerpts from Book 12
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Nov 6, 2007 21:36:33 GMT -5
^ Half of your links don't work. Also according to your excerpts, he fought the Serbs as well as the Romans. So how the hell did you get a Dalmatian Serbia, out of Bodin fighting the Romans and Serbs?
Also, the maps at the bottom of your excerpts are the ones you made for all I know. It looks too unprofessional.. And the other maps you have shown that Dalmatia is labled Dalmatia. There is no other name for it I guess.
So the answer to your question "Were Dalmatians Serbs in the past?" is a pure and simple no.
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Demonel
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Post by Demonel on Nov 7, 2007 7:10:43 GMT -5
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Vidi ovo majke ti, vidio sam ranije al' nisam obrac'o paznju www.geocities.com/capitolhill/lobby/7681/alexiad_map.htmlNjegova vlastita stranica ga demantuje, vidi majmune jedan gdje ti je Bosna, gdje Zeta, gdje Raska, a gdje Dalmacija, ako je to Dalmacija i ako su samo u vecem djelu iste bili Srbi to bi se moglo odnositi na jednu od onih knezevina gdje su se nazelili Srbi.
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highduke
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Post by highduke on Nov 7, 2007 11:40:21 GMT -5
WHICH LINKS DON'T WORK?
tHEY ALL WORK.
Demonel: how does the map discredit me?
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Post by terroreign on Nov 7, 2007 13:37:52 GMT -5
first off, Bodin was not a Nemanjic, and during his time the land was not known as Zeta but as Duklja
Duklja was a catholic land, and was in cooperation with the Vatican, The Docleans did not say they were Croats nor Serbs especially, but simply as Slavs,
the first king of Duklja was known as 'Rex Sclavorum', The King of Slavs, These Doclean slavs battled against Serbs many times, attempting to invade their lands
Stefan Nemanja later attacked Duklja, killing off the Dukljan princes and burning the cities on the coast, destroying towns and burning Doclean Books of our latin script
Later forcefully converting the Doclean Slavs to Orthodoxy, and changing the name of our country to "Zeta", from then on ruling as despots and slowly attempting to change history to make us part of their people, i.e Assimilation.
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Post by radovic on Nov 7, 2007 14:21:08 GMT -5
first off, Bodin was not a Nemanjic, and during his time the land was not known as Zeta but as Duklja I won't argued with this. Zeta was formed later. Only coastal areas could have had large catholic populations. Historical documents show that all of Montenegro except Boka Kotorska were under Byzantine (Orthodox) control. Sdecond. Historical records classify the inhabitants of Doclea as being Serbs. They though rival states. Duklja was inhabited by Serbs as were the neighbovuring areas they battled. First of all. Only coastal areas would have been converted and second Zeta was formed in 1356 (157 years after Stefan Nemanja's death) so your claim that the name of Duklja was changed by Stefan Nemanja is false. And no assimilation occured, Montenegrins were always ethnically Serb and after the Ottomans arrive did Montenegrins become a distinct nation.
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Demonel
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Post by Demonel on Nov 7, 2007 15:08:37 GMT -5
Ako je mapa napravljena po Alexiadi na koju se ti pozivas, zasto je na mapi Bosna koju ti navodis kao dio Dalmacije? Zasto je Dalmacijom oznacen samo priobalni pojas? Zar ne zavrsava Dalmacija na Savi?
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Nov 7, 2007 15:12:50 GMT -5
The geneology links.
BTW, calm down. Just because your beliefs are being destroyed and picked upon, doesn't mean you have to show outrage.
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Demonel
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Post by Demonel on Nov 7, 2007 15:42:04 GMT -5
Tako je, kad propadas, propadaj dostojanstveno.
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