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Post by plisbardhi on Apr 11, 2008 16:27:01 GMT -5
"Voisava Tripalda, figlia del signore serbo di Polog"
Thats what I have from genealogy page.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 11, 2008 16:29:57 GMT -5
Exactly, "Triballi".
Ethnonyms in a mediaeval context can be a source of confusion occasionally. In that quote, "serbo" can be a religious term, as in a follower of the Serbian rite. But she could indeed also have been Serbian. There were Serb lords in contemporary FYROM, such as Marko Kraljevic.
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Post by plisbardhi on Apr 11, 2008 16:38:50 GMT -5
"I would also like to inform you that Vlora and the town of Canina (Kanina) with all their estates were part of our dynasty in ancient times and belong to you. If anyone should oppose you, asserting that they were ruled by Mark, King of Serbia, reply that this is true, but only in the following manner. You should know, my sons, as I mentioned earlier, that King Balsha was married to Lady Comita Musachi, the daughter of Lord Andrew Musachi the Despot. To him she bore a daughter called Regina who was married to Marko, King of Serbia. Gjin Molosachi, the brother of the said Comita, bequeathed to the said Regina, his niece, the said towns of Vlora and Kanina with all their estates as a dowry . However, the said niece latter died without leaving behind any heirs by her husband. Nor did her mother, Lady Comita, leave any heirs by her husband, King Balsha. And since they now have no heirs, the said land returns to its bequeathers and, as such, it belongs to you and thus returns rightly to the domains of the Musachi dynasty." www.albanianhistory.net/texts/AH1515.html Back then as you can see it was all mixed up with different rulers and alliances. Thats why saying so and so was half this or that is futile.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 11, 2008 16:47:28 GMT -5
Exactly. Serbs put much effort in claiming Skanderbeg based on an uncertain argument that Serbian blood flowed in his veins. Yet they conveniently forget that Dusan, their beloved "car", was 3/4 Bulgarian; his father Stefan Decanski's mother was Bulgarian, as was his wife (Dusan's mother), princess Theodora. Dusan too married a Bulgarian princess!
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Post by terroreign on Apr 11, 2008 16:57:28 GMT -5
"Probably" Doesn't cut it pal, what we know is they spoke Slavic, and it was official. Skadar being the capital is very important due to the fact that Slavic was the language of the Dukljans, and skadar being the center of their kingdom, in which slavic language is again, used. The Balshas just continued the legacy. This is actually not accurate, it was Stefan Crnojevic (Father of Ivan), who married Mara Kastrioti, older sister of Skanderbeg. Then in turn, their child Ivan Crnojevic, married Goislava, sister of Albanian Cheiftain Gjergj Arianiti. And the Balsha's did control some of Albania, all the way down to Berat at one point, and battled the Topia's for control.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 11, 2008 17:03:51 GMT -5
Actually, the Balsha's distanced themselves quite alot from the Slav Orthodox sphere by adopting Latin as an official language, openly embracing Catholicism and forging closer ties with Catholics. For some reason, they didn't want to carry on the Duklja legacy.
Shkodra was the centre simply because it was grande and suitable -- there was nothing equivalent in Zeta. Likewise, Nikola wanted to make Shkodra Montenegro's capital, despite it being a purely Albanian city.
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Post by terroreign on Apr 11, 2008 17:44:39 GMT -5
Duklja was Catholic, pal ;D
Nikola never wanted to do such thing, just wanted Skadar so that he can have complete control of the Lake.
Skadar back during Duklja's time was full of Montenegrin Polabian Slavs, who were highly mixed with Illyrians and spoke a archaic slav language. Catholicism being the type of Christianity practiced.
No evidence proving otherwise.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 12, 2008 10:45:48 GMT -5
Even during Balsha's days, i.e. the late 1300s?
Any proof?
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Post by terroreign on Apr 12, 2008 21:54:12 GMT -5
Duklja was renamed to Zeta after around 1180 or so, after it was attacked and annexed by Stefan Nemanja, ruler of neighboring country Serbia.
With annexation the population was forcefully converted to orthodoxy-greek rite, and cities were burnt as well as books containing the latin script.
The Balsha's were just bringing back the old Dukljan customs.
The proof is in the pudding, the Kingdom of Duklja had its capital in Skadar, and the Roman empire along with the Docleans themselves classified the population as slavs, naturally being mixed with illirians.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 13, 2008 7:14:10 GMT -5
You do not know that the Nemanja dynasty was originally from Montenegro, Podgorica to be exact!?
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Post by terroreign on Apr 13, 2008 7:37:44 GMT -5
Not quite accurate, Stefan Nemanja was born in Podgorica, his father came from Serbia (ran away due to inter-family fight), and Nemanja was chrstianed as a catholic in Duklja.
He later left Duklja and went to Raska/Serbia where he became ruler and attackd/annexed Duklja.
Before he did this, Duklja was much stronger than serbia.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 13, 2008 7:52:13 GMT -5
You need to learn your history better. The Nemanjids were descendants of the House of Vojislavljevic, kings who's realm included Zeta. Its founder, Stefan Dobroslav I Vojislav, was a lord from Travunia (Trebinje) which you've called "the heart of Montenegro". By your definition, they were indeed Montenegrins.
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Post by terroreign on Apr 13, 2008 8:15:54 GMT -5
The "Nemanjids" have no blood connection to the Vojislavljevici.
As I told you before, the Nemanjic's originate from raska/Serbia.
Here's a history lesson for you:
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Apr 22, 2008 14:45:46 GMT -5
The way you guys are fighting amongst each-other proves to me that we are indeed brothers. In case you haven't noticed "brothers" fight the hardest amongst themselves.
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Apr 22, 2008 23:32:46 GMT -5
why would i accept you slavinized albanians as brothers when i don't accept slavophile albanians?!
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Post by terroreign on Apr 23, 2008 8:37:00 GMT -5
^^Maybe you're a fascist?
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Post by plisbardhi on Apr 23, 2008 12:48:02 GMT -5
Dr. G. Kostic thote se Malazezet me Shqiptaret kalojne ma mire, sepse "shqipen e nxane ma lehte, kane te njajtat zakone dhe jane te se njajtes race".
Thats from an Albanian scholarly article written by a diaspora Albanian in the sixties. Translates to Dr. G. Kostic says that Montenegrins and Albanians get along better (than with the other Serb colonists in Kosovo from Dalmatia, Lika, and Herzegovina), because "they accommodate Albanian more easily, have the same customs and are of the same race".
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