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Post by iskender on Feb 24, 2008 13:09:15 GMT -5
this romantic idea is very beautiful.Damaded but you dont have single fact
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Feb 24, 2008 13:30:46 GMT -5
Well all the facts point out that in where fyrom is now from 700-1945 lived Bulgarians, all described them as Bulgarians, they thought as Bulgarian. Every single fact points it out. But of course you dont wanna see it.
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Post by iskender on Feb 24, 2008 13:34:28 GMT -5
Ohoh.But look the other side.You can also see very and much better fact that We are only """FYROMnian""" and allways will be that.But <----------edit, attack ideas not users---------> cant see that and I have no time do listenig your propaganda material
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Post by terroreign on Feb 24, 2008 17:23:24 GMT -5
Modern day """FYROM"""(Skopia) was a part of Macedonia in Roman times, I do believe this predates the Bulgarian conquests.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Feb 25, 2008 0:50:05 GMT -5
Modern day """FYROM"""(Skopia) was a part of Macedonia in Roman times, I do believe this predates the Bulgarian conquests. 10 percent of fyrom in the south. The fyrom should be called Peonia, cause Thracian Peonians lived there as in the whole of Bulgaria. We are their ansestors too.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 25, 2008 1:14:25 GMT -5
Ioan - No, Skopia, Bitola, all of modern day "Fyrom" was known as Macedonia in Roman times.
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Post by Arxileas on Feb 25, 2008 2:47:11 GMT -5
Terror the Slavs came during the 600 AD, what are you refering to now ? proto Slavs ?
Or ....................... <---- fill in the gap for us.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 25, 2008 3:26:42 GMT -5
I am not trying to prove a connection between today's slav Macedonians to the ancient ones.
I am soley referring to geographical claims. In which "FYROM" has the right to claim its name as Macedonia due to geographical history.
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Post by Arxileas on Feb 25, 2008 3:33:07 GMT -5
In which "FYROM" has the right to claim its name as Macedonia due to geographical history. This argument would loose in any world court...Geographical reasons doesn't give one the right to claim it's past occupants history. If it was possible the Turks would have after 400 plus years of rule over us in the Balkans.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 25, 2008 3:39:48 GMT -5
You meant to say "lose", and I don't think you get it. This does not involve claiming history, this is claiming a geographical name. And "FYROM" would win, right away.
Why is Croatia able to call one of their regions "Dalmatia"? Does that mean that they are direct descendents of the Illyrian Dalmatians? Are they stealing history by using this name?
No, they aren't, and that is why there are no problems concerning it.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 25, 2008 3:40:58 GMT -5
A people's history is an internal issue and cannot be contested by another country.
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Post by Arxileas on Feb 25, 2008 3:43:00 GMT -5
As far as evidence is concered in the world scale of things it all shows that the Macedonians were and are of Hellenic origin.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 25, 2008 3:49:56 GMT -5
Greek macedonians are of hellenic origin, obviously, because they were GREEK. They don't see their ethnicity as Macedonian but greek.
Ethnic Macedonians dont see themselves as greek.
Both of these peoples are Macedonian by national sense, but only one is by ethnic sense.
Is this hard for you to grasp.
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Post by Arxileas on Feb 25, 2008 4:29:57 GMT -5
Greek macedonians are of hellenic origin, obviously, because they were GREEK. They don't see their ethnicity as Macedonian but greek. Ethnic Macedonians dont see themselves as greek. Both of these peoples are Macedonian by national sense, but only one is by ethnic sense. Is this hard for you to grasp. There is no or never was such thing as an ethnic Macedonian never was only a Hellenic tribe BC times. The Hellenic tribes were united under Philip the Macedon leadership "Alexanders father"....Then under the leadership of Philip the Macedon we became a united country called Greece. NOT a Slavic one. Can you grasp this fact ? Besides the Macedonians had always Greek names, Greek toponyms, Greek ways, Greek heroes, Greek gods, Greek dialects and spread Greek Language and Civilization to the World. .
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Post by terroreign on Feb 25, 2008 15:14:31 GMT -5
There is such a thing now, that's what matters.
If you want to rely on ancient BC times, you might as well say that we're all africans as well.
Greeks had greek names of course. The argument has to do with geography not with history, understand.
A people's history is an internal issue, greece has no control over "FYROM" history, and never will.
If you feel slighted, then tough luck.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Feb 26, 2008 0:24:54 GMT -5
Ioan - No, Skopia, Bitola, all of modern day "Fyrom" was known as Macedonia in Roman times. That was when Philiph and Alex conquered the northern Peonians. It was not a classical Macedonian land. The classic Macedonia is in north Greece. With that logic u must Macedonia must include the whole of Bulgaria cause Philiph took it.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Feb 26, 2008 0:27:00 GMT -5
Why is Croatia able to call one of their regions "Dalmatia"? Does that mean that they are direct descendents of the Illyrian Dalmatians? Are they stealing history by using this name? As geographic region they are allowed (as in Croatia), but your example is NOT applicable to them cause they re naming the whole of the country.
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Post by Arxileas on Feb 26, 2008 0:50:17 GMT -5
If you want to rely on ancient BC times, you might as well say that we're all africans as well. Greeks had greek names of course. The argument has to do with geography not with history, understand. Why not India Alexander did invade India on his Hellenic quest and Afghanistan. Did he not. Yes we do it's our name and is why we have an Article 11 in the interim accord. Article 11. Greece has the right to bloc FYROM’s aspirations for any affiliation with NATO or with the EU with a name not agreed to by Greece. Have no right to just become what ever they wanted to. Their ethnic conscious was beginning to be formed for political reasons just before 1900's but it was Tito who created their nation in 1945 having been named as the region of varder before then, so when they had their fake country in 1991 declaring independence they were declaring independence from ex-Yugoslavia [ Slavs with an Bulgarian concious] not Greece. And we know Macedonia was and is Greek. Ethnic conscious was beginning to be formed pre- 1900's and fake nation at 1945 thanks to Tito.Shame on them that we cannot find any treaties that mentions any Macedonian nation, any where so having said that then we have no country to even start naming for their lies and accusations that we even annexed it. Bre can one annex a none existent nation. .
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Post by iskender on Feb 26, 2008 17:33:03 GMT -5
The anciet macedonian has not dissapiar.No, they have a multietnic live with slavs.That two nation has performed today macedonian nation.But because the antic macedonians has biggest and they show macedonian culturial riches and language.So today for that we call Macedonians=Slavs+anciet macedonian,and we speak antic macedonian and we have original macedonian culture
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Post by iskender on Feb 26, 2008 17:35:09 GMT -5
The macedonians have bigest right for macedonian antic kings and history
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