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Post by albpatriot18 on Jul 19, 2009 17:59:39 GMT -5
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Post by Kassandros on Jul 19, 2009 18:07:28 GMT -5
Since you can tell that the area of Epirus was full of Albanians in the 1800's.... I'm sure you could tell where all the Greeks have gone from there since the area was full of Greeks since 3,000 BC as the monuments, theatres like Dodoni etc etc reveal.. Just one day pfffst... disapeared on the open air and gave their place to others?
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Post by Arxileas on Jul 19, 2009 18:11:13 GMT -5
Source is wikipedia ? Wikipedia is that kind of asylum for any kind of lunatics and nerds like Highduke, who think they can change the history Nuff said...
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jul 19, 2009 18:12:42 GMT -5
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Post by Arxileas on Jul 19, 2009 18:14:11 GMT -5
Since you can tell that the area of Epirus was full of Albanians in the 1800's.... I'm sure you could tell where all the Greeks have gone from there since the area was full of Greeks since 3,000 BC as the monuments, theatres like Dodoni etc etc reveal.. Just one day pfffst... disapeared on the open air and gave their place to others? Basili I have sources that show the Albs were a minority in the South until Enver Hoxia moved hundred thousand Greeks from Northern Epiros aka South Albania to the North Albania in order to try and change things. Try not to take the all knowing Oracle too seriously. .
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jul 19, 2009 18:14:15 GMT -5
Source is wikipedia ? Wikipedia is that kind of asylum for any kind of lunatics and nerds like Highduke, who think they can change the history Nuff said... The maps are not made by Wikipedia. They are contemporary maps made by ethnographers, politicians and geographers in the Balkans. These maps have been circulating around Illyria Forums as well for years.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jul 19, 2009 18:15:09 GMT -5
Since you can tell that the area of Epirus was full of Albanians in the 1800's.... I'm sure you could tell where all the Greeks have gone from there since the area was full of Greeks since 3,000 BC as the monuments, theatres like Dodoni etc etc reveal.. Just one day pfffst... disapeared on the open air and gave their place to others? Basili I have sources that show the Albs were a minority in the South until Enver Hoxia moved hundred thousand Greeks from Northern Epiros aka South Albania to the North Albania in order to try and change things. Which source exactly? I didnt know you could read?
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Post by Arxileas on Jul 19, 2009 18:16:41 GMT -5
Why you ask for sources when deep down you know all this to be true from me...
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jul 19, 2009 18:17:53 GMT -5
I know the truth for myself. Just bring the source so I can have a laugh
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Post by Arxileas on Jul 19, 2009 18:26:45 GMT -5
I know the truth for myself. Just bring the source so I can have a laugh And what is that truth that you know ?
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jul 19, 2009 18:32:11 GMT -5
That Albanians were a majority in the northern region of Epirus since the 1500s when Albanian tribes started settling in the region and expelling the Greeks into more south safehavens like Jannina. By the 1800 is was not just Albanian, but majority Muslim as well. With all the major cities being Muslim majority. In the early 20th century it was made even more Albanian when 1) The region was given to Albania and a number of Greeks, and/or Grekofils, Albanian speaking Orthodox Christians who identified with Greeks, left the region once again to live in a Greek state and 2)when the Chams were expelled from Greece first in the 20s then in 44-5. Greek pockets are isolated in three Himara villages (not recognized as minority), along with regions in the deep south, such as Finiq, Mesopotam, Politsani, Livadhja along with three other villages in the area around Sarande. Sarande itself is Albanian majority with mostly Muslims. Incidentally, these are also the regions that vote for the Omonia party during the elections, this you can view for yourself in the voting results from either this election or last election (Omonia is in yellow). Here is a map from T.J. Winnifrith's book Badlands Borderlands: A History of Southern Albania/Northern Epirus (note Winnifrith is neither pro-Greek nor Albanian, he is actually pro-Vlach). img11.imageshack.us/img11/2290/001rjnund.jpgSouthern Epirus was, on the otherhand, always Greek majority. The only other person who knows things about this issue is Kastorianos, and he will pretty much confirm what I said here.
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Post by Kassandros on Jul 19, 2009 18:51:30 GMT -5
Since you can tell that the area of Epirus was full of Albanians in the 1800's.... I'm sure you could tell where all the Greeks have gone from there since the area was full of Greeks since 3,000 BC as the monuments, theatres like Dodoni etc etc reveal.. Just one day pfffst... disapeared on the open air and gave their place to others? Basili I have sources that show the Albs were a minority in the South until Enver Hoxia moved hundred thousand Greeks from Northern Epiros aka South Albania to the North Albania in order to try and change things. Try not to take the all knowing Oracle too seriously. . I know I know... just talking......
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Post by Kassandros on Jul 19, 2009 18:52:33 GMT -5
Albanians were a majority in the northern region of Epirus since the 1500s when Albanian tribes started settling in the region and expelling the Greeks into more south safehavens like Jannina. By the 1800 is was not just Albanian, but majority Muslim as well ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In other words... you accept that under and with the help of Ottoman rule... Greeks lost their land from Muslim Albanians.. only because Greeks were not Muslims. Right? What is your problem then with the Chams?
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jul 19, 2009 18:55:10 GMT -5
"That Albanians were a majority in the northern region of Epirus since the 1500s when Albanian tribes started settling in the region and expelling the Greeks into more south safehavens like Jannina. By the 1800 is was not just Albanian, but majority Muslim as well." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In other words... you accept that under Ottoman rule... Greeks lost their land from Muslim Albanians. Right? What is your problem then with the Chams? Before the Ottomans arrived. Albanians began making their group in Epirus in large numbers after they defeated the Greek Despotate of Epirus by killing Nicophoros II in battle at the Axhoos River. From there on Albanians started a southward march into Epirus and then deeper Greece (created Preveza).The Ottomans actually allowed Greeks to return to areas where they had previously been depopulated from. The Greeks of Ioannina were actually the ones to call in the Ottomans against the Albanians in order to restore order in Epirus. Shahin Bej entered the area and in a few years Albanians were pushed back into southern Albania. From that time Greeks were able to repopulate parts that they had fled from. If the Ottomans didnt arrive, Ioannina was on the verge of falling to Albanians. Read the book The Despotate of Epiros particularly the chapter 'The Albanian Despotate of Arta' and the concluding chapter on the arrival of the Turks. The only area that remained a safezone for Greeks was Ioannina, which was flooded with Greeks. They were so paranoid of Albanians that they wouldnt even allow Albanian mercenaries within the city walls. The city was never able to be captured by Albs because of: 1) inter-tribal wars between Albanians, often brewed by the city. 2) Strong defenses The city eventually fell into the hands of the Serbs (Thomas). The chronicles about him are pretty vicious, calling him a tyrant. He, nevertheless, won fame for being 'The Albanianslayer'(Alvanoktonos). However, eventually he too was defeated and was forced to make a marriage treaty with Bua Shpata.
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Post by Arxileas on Jul 19, 2009 18:59:43 GMT -5
That Albanians were a majority in the northern region of Epirus since the 1500s when Albanian tribes started settling in the region and expelling the Greeks into more south safehavens like Jannina. By the 1800 is was not just Albanian, but majority Muslim as well. With all the major cities being Muslim majority. In the early 20th century it was made even more Albanian when 1) The region was given to Albania and a number of Greeks, and/or Grekofils, Albanian speaking Orthodox Christians who identified with Greeks, left the region once again to live in a Greek state and 2)when the Chams were expelled from Greece first in the 20s then in 44-5. Greek pockets are isolated in three Himara villages (not recognized as minority), along with regions in the deep south, such as Finiq, Mesopotam, Politsani, Livadhja along with three other villages in the area around Sarande. Sarande itself is Albanian majority with mostly Muslims. In the Northern region ? are you sure melty...Then how do you explain the Northern Greek Epirotes kicking your Albanian butts into agreeing for Autonomy "called protocol of Corfu of 1914" which later was signed and agreed with other powers of that day ? I'll be back laters. .
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jul 19, 2009 19:02:16 GMT -5
Where did they 'kick' Albanian butt? Oh you mean the irregular troops funded and equipped by the Greek state to kill Albanian Muslims when Albania was at the time facing simultaneous occupation from Serbia in the north, Bulgaria on the east and Italy from west?
The Protocol of Corfu was created because Albania had no choice but to sign it. Just like the Turks were put under pressure to sign the lausanne treaty, Albanians were put under foreign pressure to sign the Corfu Protocol, which was signed by a king Albanians didn't not accept (Weid).
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jul 19, 2009 19:16:00 GMT -5
From the same book that i mentioned above: img31.imageshack.us/img31/326/002auc.jpgAfter 1913, Greece was supposed to remove all of its troops from southern Albania... it did not. It kepts troops there to terrorize Albanians and 'entice' them to move north. This continued to keep the troops there, and what is more, it armed the existing pro-Greeks with military equipment. This created the violence and terror that got the west to turn attention. The irregulars were sent int various areas and made to look like locals.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jul 19, 2009 19:33:12 GMT -5
Here you go. The reason why its in '' is because the term andartes does not exist in English. There you go coksuker. The next time an Albanian ever kills a Greek in Albania, it will be because we remember everything. We still have the charred burns of houses that the Greek troops torched, mosques they burned down and those they killed...
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Post by Arxileas on Jul 19, 2009 23:53:08 GMT -5
The Protocol of Corfu was created because Albania had no choice but to sign it. Just like the Turks were put under pressure to sign the lausanne treaty, Albanians were put under foreign pressure to sign the Corfu Protocol, which was signed by a king Albanians didn't not accept (Weid). And it still exists till this day haunting you...I personaly don't think it's warrented for them to break way not up to Greece BUT If they want it, their rights should be respected as equals in Albania nation at least. I know Albanians suffered extreme cruelty as well during the communist years, but to state that they didn't is absurd. Since 1913, the Government of Albania has illegally occupied Epirus, now is the time to DEMAND that Epirus be given the opportunity to exercise the self-determination that is hers by right! Those rights were established in the Corfu Protocol of 1914 and signed by the governments of England, France, Germany, Austria, Russia and Italy, this Protocol was unconditionally accepted by the government of Albania. To date, Albania has refused to implement the Corfu Protocol.members.cox.net/epirus/The power of the day then recognized the Hellenic characheter of the entire Epirus region, as for the current Greek Epirus dream on. .
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Post by Kastorianos on Jul 20, 2009 4:47:53 GMT -5
As you should have seen yourself...the maps are not unitary....everyone drew whatever he wanted back then...when did Kastoria have a nameable albanian population? Never...as for Epirus...it did always have a greek majority...seen as a whole...while the western coastal regions were traditionally albanian speaking...except for Parga and Preveza city.
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