|
Post by ilirdardani on May 29, 2009 21:43:00 GMT -5
^ Few words for you....edi rama is a naked maniac who cannot even create his own family, just look at his face...he's a criminal waiting to happen...all he wants is to steal and destroy Albania as a country...has already destroyed the opposition. What kind of leader never goes to the parliament? What kind of leader doesn't even run and yet expects to become the prime minister?
The socialists in Albania are all low level IQ for wanting him to win. Simple as that, you can hate on Berisha all you want, but until you have a real politician competing against him, you're not going to win. PS at this moment is full of thieves hoping to get their hands on the country's budget, just look at the names.
|
|
|
Post by leshte on May 29, 2009 22:23:31 GMT -5
Illiridian car thua. I paske mesuar permendesh fjalet e Sales. Nderroje ndonjehere kanalin. Nejse ke shume gjera aty qe ia ke fut kot e s'e ke idene fare. Edi Rama eshte kryetar bashkie jo deputet o lal. Deputeti shkon ne parlament. Kryetari bashkise drejton bashkine. E dyta c'lidhje kane fotot nudo me se si drejton ai. Ku eshte lidhja ketu. Dhe kur thua manjak per car lloji manjaku e ke fjalen. Per cfare e ke fjalen qe nuk "run". Sme duket shume e drejte qe nje person te jete edhe kryetar bashkie edhe deputet. S'me duket e drejte qe nje person qe populli i Tiranes e ka zgjedhur per te drejtuar qytetin ti thote njerezve mos me cani koken une do ik do ta le kete pune. Tjetra, Edi Rama e ka nje cun, per cfar familje e ke fjalen. Dhe cfare nenkupton qe e ka prishur opoziten. Ne cfare menyre. Kush ua ka bere ket test per IQ gjithe ketyre socialisteve te Shqiperise. Politikan me te mire se Sala? Shumica e PD-se eshte me e mire se Sala. Shumica e atyre qe jan larguar nga PD jane me te mire se Sala. Ja nje emer kot po ja fut. Spartak Ngjela eshte me i mire se Sala per shume arsye. 1. Ka bere burg ne kohen e Komunizmit se ishte jo komunist, Sala ishte sekretar i partise komuniste per spitalet dhe mjek personal i Enver Hoxhes. 2. Edhe kur ishte me PD-ne ne cdo moment vinte kushtetuten para partise, PD-se. 3. Nuk e cante koken per Salen nese nje gje nuk i dukej e drejte Perse thua ti se Sala e "ngrivi" pastaj e perjashtoi nga grupi i deputeteve te PD-se ne parlament dhe me vone nga PD. Prec Zogaj eshte me i mire se Sala. Besnik Mustafaj eshte me i mire se Sala. Meqe ra fjala Prec Zogajn e ka rrafur shiku ne qender te Tiranes dhe e ka lene pa ndjenja ne sy te te birit te tij qe ateheresh ishte femije. Po te kesh nevoje ta dish kush ishte SHIK pyet mos ki turp. Une nuk urrej Berishen, une po te tregoj nje fakt. Nejse, nejse uroj qe kur PD te dale ne opozite te ndodhesh aty afer mitingjeve te Sales. Po mbijetove hajde shkruaj ketu.
|
|
|
Post by ngadhnjyesi on Jun 2, 2009 10:23:13 GMT -5
The socialists in Albania are all low level IQ for wanting him to win. Simple as that, you can hate on Berisha all you want, but until you have a real politician competing against him, you're not going to win. PS at this moment is full of thieves hoping to get their hands on the country's budget, just look at the names. Ilir before you come here and spout your nonsensical garbage have a sneak peek at life in Albania under Berisha's regime.
|
|
|
Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 2, 2009 18:41:58 GMT -5
^ Few words for you....edi rama is a naked maniac who cannot even create his own family, just look at his face...he's a criminal waiting to happen...all he wants is to steal and destroy Albania as a country...has already destroyed the opposition. What kind of leader never goes to the parliament? What kind of leader doesn't even run and yet expects to become the prime minister? The socialists in Albania are all low level IQ for wanting him to win. Simple as that, you can hate on Berisha all you want, but until you have a real politician competing against him, you're not going to win. PS at this moment is full of thieves hoping to get their hands on the country's budget, just look at the names. Lol, a malok talking about the IQ of others, when the average Catholic Albanian IQ is probably no higher 3. Low IQ? Have you heard Berisha talk? Lol! The areas of Albania that have the most amount of intellectuals are places that have Socialist leaders in them, while you malok trash who can do little other than pick your noses and look retarded keep voting in PD members.
|
|
|
Post by insomniac on Jun 2, 2009 19:56:56 GMT -5
^ It takes time to evolve... 500 years since Skanderbeg and nothing has changed. Probably people were richer back then... Fushe Aliaj ... nc nc nc www.top-channel.tv/new/video.php?id=6748I've already gotten used to the fact that our Maloks are the same as America's rednecks. You know Mississipi, Texas and such... It's not hard to find the similarities between two. They are only good for fighting wars and enrolling them in the army... It will always be like that.
|
|
Lib-Fier
Amicus
Bricklayer 'works for meals'
Posts: 1,092
|
Post by Lib-Fier on Jun 3, 2009 6:53:20 GMT -5
The socialists in Albania are all low level IQ for wanting him to win. Simple as that, you can hate on Berisha all you want, but until you have a real politician competing against him, you're not going to win. PS at this moment is full of thieves hoping to get their hands on the country's budget, just look at the names. i don't know about that mate, the democratic party electorate is pretty much composed of northern albs(poorly educated and isolated, who have a stereotype for being a little dim, not everyone of course), you have your section of society who were persecuted under the communist regime, another poorly educated layer of population because they were prevented and always dismissed for over 50 years by the regime, you have your mercenaries and thug-like pseudo political prisoners and then you have a sneaky, opportunistic section of the middle class that just jump on the berisha bandwaggon for favors, and a very limited section of the students cut, those affiliated of family inclined to support the Democratic Party.
|
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Jun 3, 2009 10:29:04 GMT -5
I can understand your resentment for Berisha, but don't put all "maloks" in the same basket. Many of these stereotypes don't entirely comply with reality, like "all maloks vote PD because they are tribal" etc etc. If this was true, how come LSI won in Lezhe? Or PS won in Malsia e Madhe, the heartland of "maloks"? Edi Rama seemed to enjoy alot of support in Tropoje, the hometown of Sali Berisha himself, when he visited it;
Also, given how scarcely populated the north is in relation to Central Albania and Southern Albania, it is quite evident that PD isn't in this current position due to "tribal loyalties", because if its loyal constituencies were restricted to the north, they would not be governing now, nor would the polls show that their support is above forty per cent most of the cases. This becomes even more evident when we see that not all of the north is fanatically pro-PD. Obviously PD is enjoying support elsewhere as well, not just among the highlanders.
It's easy to be critical of people with little economic opportunities and possibilities. Firstly, that video seems a little exaggerated. Ndoshta vertet njerezit jetojne neper stalla me bagetine e tyre, por me duket si montazh, and TopChannel's pro-socialist inclination is already known. Nevertheless, perhaps the reasons for the backwardness of the north should be sought in lack of investments & general negligence. Firstly, the constant conflicts with Ottomans and other invaders left their imprint on the local infrastructure (or lack thereof) and economy. Secondly, these areas were generally where Enver Hoxha encountered resistance to his communist ideology (ex. Prek Cali, the Catholic clergy, Dibra). Why develop a region which had fought him with such conviction?
That, rather than the (supposedly) total ineptitude of "maloks", is the reason behind the comparatively backward situation of the north. Not to mention the geography itself, composed mostly of mountains and hills, with the exception of a few rich fields like Zadrima.
|
|
|
Post by ngadhnjyesi on Jun 3, 2009 13:36:36 GMT -5
I can understand your resentment for Berisha, but don't put all "maloks" in the same basket. 100% true. Tropoja is a Socialist stronghold and Berisha hasn't set foot there in years (as far as I know). It's also true that Berisha in 2005 won areas that had voted Socialist 4 years earlier. Elbasani and Durres come to mind. There are only a couple of Democratic strongholds in Albania, Shkoder and Kavaje and a couple of Socialist strongholds Vlore and Tepelene (Skrapar is LSI). The rest is fair game.
|
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Jun 3, 2009 14:01:49 GMT -5
Tropoja too? Shyt. Explains Rama's reception there in the video.
|
|
Lib-Fier
Amicus
Bricklayer 'works for meals'
Posts: 1,092
|
Post by Lib-Fier on Jun 3, 2009 15:17:26 GMT -5
I can understand your resentment for Berisha, but don't put all "maloks" in the same basket. Many of these stereotypes don't entirely comply with reality, like "all maloks vote PD because they are tribal" etc etc. If this was true, how come LSI won in Lezhe? Or PS won in Malsia e Madhe, the heartland of "maloks"? Edi Rama seemed to enjoy alot of support in Tropoje, the hometown of Sali Berisha himself, when he visited it; Also, given how scarcely populated the north is in relation to Central Albania and Southern Albania, it is quite evident that PD isn't in this current position due to "tribal loyalties", because if its loyal constituencies were restricted to the north, they would not be governing now, nor would the polls show that their support is above forty per cent most of the cases. This becomes even more evident when we see that not all of the north is fanatically pro-PD. Obviously PD is enjoying support elsewhere as well, not just among the highlanders. It's easy to be critical of people with little economic opportunities and possibilities. Firstly, that video seems a little exaggerated. Ndoshta vertet njerezit jetojne neper stalla me bagetine e tyre, por me duket si montazh, and TopChannel's pro-socialist inclination is already known. Nevertheless, perhaps the reasons for the backwardness of the north should be sought in lack of investments & general negligence. Firstly, the constant conflicts with Ottomans and other invaders left their imprint on the local infrastructure (or lack thereof) and economy. Secondly, these areas were generally where Enver Hoxha encountered resistance to his communist ideology (ex. Prek Cali, the Catholic clergy, Dibra). Why develop a region which had fought him with such conviction? That, rather than the (supposedly) total ineptitude of "maloks", is the reason behind the comparatively backward situation of the north. Not to mention the geography itself, composed mostly of mountains and hills, with the exception of a few rich fields like Zadrima. hey Donnie, what's been up, libo here, obviously all i mentioned doesn't follow a clear cut logic, but when talking about bread and butter, those sections of societies are it, they make up the core...you also have to take into account that many malsors have settled in tirana where they have prospered and multiplied in numbers which translates into votes and those areas make up some of the strongholds, i did not mean to insult malsors i just talked about stereotypes and to a certain they are based on reality whether we like to admit or not, those areas make up some of the least educated pockets of voters but that's not their fault its just the rut they find themselves in for reasons you touched upon.
|
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Jun 3, 2009 15:57:16 GMT -5
Hej Libo, paske nderru nofken! Didn't know it was you ... all good?
I understand what you mean. But let's analyze the stereotype first. The stereotype in this case is uneducated Malsors voting for PD & Berisha simply because Salo is from Tropoje, because they are supposedly ignorants who care nothing of political conviction and visions, but everything for "clan loyalties" and to vote "in spite".
Now, I agree there are many Malsors who've left their old homes and moved to Tirana which has experienced a massive influx (not just from the north one might add). Yet already here I think the stereotype breaks down and faces a crisis of definition. Shouldn't the most ignorant of Malsors be those who remain in the villages? And those who moved to Tirana or other towns be more educated? The rule is generally so. Yet, if we assume all urbanized Malsors vote pro-PD, how come all the ignorant peasants left are voting for left parties, such as LSI in Lezhe and PS in Malsia e Madhe & Tropoje? This contradicts the notion that the educated vote PS and uneducated vote PD, because if anything, the urbanized voters have better access to education and intellectual life ... whereas the Malsors left should be the ones most exposed to the "clan society" with "tribal loyalties" ...
Yet there is no such pattern, these preconceived ideas do not correspond with reality. Some of the most undeveloped mountainous areas are voting PS ... and there is no reason their urban counterpart should be anymore fanatically pro-PD than they. The Shkoder example contradicts this as well. Shkodra with its tradition of being a centre of intellectual life & literature, the northern rival of Korca, is staunchly pro-PD, while the predominantly rural Malsia e Madhe is pro-PS. So the real "Maloks" here seem to be more leftist than anything ... contradicting this stereotype yet again.
I think many of these stereotypes have their roots in the communist period, especially considering how agressively anti-communistic the north was for quite some time. The northerners are thus perceived as these hopeless right-wingers who will only vote for their own. Yet facts and history contradicts this. Even Zogu was, despite his northern origin, despised by most Malsors and Kosovars who saw him as a traitor and usurper, though this stereotypical logic would make us assume they were his main supporters. And these statistics do as well. I mean, what region is more undeveloped and more "malok" than Tropoje; who, if not they, should fit into this category of "tribal loyalty" when Berisha himself is from this mountainous town? And even they favour Edi Rama and PS over Berisha and PD. The "Malok" card and stereotype might be valid in some instances ... but by the same definition, one might argue that vlonjats and other southerners vote pro-PS simply because Rama is a southerner ... in reality however, there doesn't seem to be a clear-cut pattern.
|
|
|
Post by ngadhnjyesi on Jun 3, 2009 16:05:07 GMT -5
Tropoja too? Shyt. Explains Rama's reception there in the video. I wanna clarify my answer that I was talking about Bajram Curri not the whole Tropoja, which is undoubtedly a PD stronghold. Sali Berisha woudn't set foot in Bajram Curri after '97 for fear of the Haklaj clan who controlled the town after PS won. They even managed to kill Tropoja's representative in the parliament at the time Azem Hajdari.
|
|
|
Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 3, 2009 16:10:04 GMT -5
I was wondering how that could be...
|
|
|
Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 3, 2009 17:03:45 GMT -5
|
|
Lib-Fier
Amicus
Bricklayer 'works for meals'
Posts: 1,092
|
Post by Lib-Fier on Jun 4, 2009 4:43:53 GMT -5
Hej Libo, paske nderru nofken! Didn't know it was you ... all good? yeah, all good in the hood, they banned me and took down my profile, no reason given and no prior warning. back on the topic, politics in albania its not as it once were after the collapse of the regime, nowdays a good portion of voters are undecided and an even bigger portion affiliate themselves with a certain side purely for favors and benefits such as a job or money, i think the core of voters are still somewhat devided in geographical areas and social status, however that is not to say that all of the north is pro PD and uneducated and most importantly not all idolise Berisha, and here we seem to be getting confused because we are debating micro politics within a region when the comment was intended as a generalisation for the country as a whole, of course you have your isolated pockets of pro-PS counties in the north, but that has more to do with the old communist era politics where these areas were viewed as calloborators with the regime, but there are other reasons for it as well, its clan mentality whereby i become a member of LSI and the whole tribe/village votes for me, so parties deliberately target people with high numbers of followers, Although the number of followers of PS in the north pales in comparison with that of PD, point is, there are exclusion to stereotypes if you delve in that deep. the exodus of malsors from north to Tirana hasn't really propelled them into a highly educated status, don't forget that they mostly dwelled in informal areas in the suburbs where make shift neighbourhoods sprung up overnight and there no hospitals, schools, jobs, infrastructure and many have become disillusioned with life there, so they haven't exactly elevated themselves from poverty, in fact in most cases they have worsened their situation, so i wouldn't call this a highly civilised portion of voters. from my personnal experience, 90% of malsors i've spoken to adore Berisha, i haven't met everybody of course but enough to convince me that there is a tribal element involved, some have even gone so far as to say that 'we know he is a lunitic and demagogue but there is smth about him that draws us to him'
|
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Jun 4, 2009 8:24:02 GMT -5
Fier,
Perhaps indeed an overwhelming majority of Malsors do support PD, even though it isn't necessarely reflected in the actual elections. But this isn't my main concern. My irritation arises when some people explain northern votes for PD as the result of "tribal loyalties" and people being "uneducated" (apo "malok") ... while southerners who vote for PS regularly aren't any of that. Afterall, just like you say some ninety per cent of Malsors you've encountered favor PD over PS, a majority of southerners I've met (either in real life or through the web) all seem to accordantly favour PS and Rama and loathe Berisha and PD.
Now, why is the staunch PS support of Vlore any less "tribal" than the traditional PD support of Shkoder? The "tribal" card would seem valid if all northerners belonged to one "tribe", but they don't. Sali Berisha is from the Berishe clan, with its nucleus in the Puke-Iballe region. But there are many other clans; Kastrat, Shkrel, Kelmend, Hot, Bytyc, Krasniqe, Gash, Helshan, Kabash, Thac, Mirdite, Lume, etc etc .... so, how can someone who isn't of Berisha's clan/tribe, be "tribal" with Berisha when he votes for him, if they aren't of the same clan? "Geg" in this context doesn't cut, as it is a dialectal definition, not a tribal one, just as Tosk. So, some ordinary northerner from let's say Bajza, who isn't Berishe, suddenly decides to vote for Berisha; how is this more "tribal" than a vlonjat voting for Edi Rama? I mean, at best this can be described as being regionally biased (in both ends) rather than tribal. On the other hand, what occured in the referendum of Montenegro in 2006 could, perhaps, be described as "tribal voting" since the votes pro/against independence/secession from Serbia ran along tribal lines, with the tribes/clans of Old Montenegro centered around Cetinje voting for secession, while those of Brda voting for keeping the union.
Not entirely correct. Malsia e Madhe was anything but an area viewed as collaborationist. Here, the communists faced a determined resistance. Perhaps there were collaborators here and there, but overall, the contempt for the communists and communism was preserved and the memory of Prek Cali and the like not forgotten. Still, the PS was voted in this district ... which is perhaps the result of the locals' realization that PS policies better comply with their reality and suits them more than PD's more right-oriented line.
|
|
|
Post by EriTopSheqeri on Jun 4, 2009 8:41:36 GMT -5
Maloket jane me Berishen se u dha toka kur zbriten nga malet ne qender dhe riviere...dhe i ka bere lemsh sa 17 vjet me vone pronesia eshte problem...pikerisht per faj te tij
Une lashe Sukthin ne 97-ten se ishte mbushur me maloke qe kishin marre pa dokumenta tokat e ish-Ndermarrjes Bujqesore (me e madhja ne Shqiperi)
Me 2005 asnje qe nuk i ishte i PD-e nuk u la te votonte...ndersa maloket sollen edhe femijet per te votuar
Te keni turp qe mbani anen e dikujt qe ska hapur nje here gojen per Kosoven apo kundra Serbise ne kaq kohe...lere me qe ka bere pazar koke me koke me Sllobon
Saliu nuk ka lene gje pa thene kundra oficereve te ushtrise te cilet votojne PS-ne...e njejta ushtri qe ne 98-ten luftoi serbin dhe sterviste UCK-ne ne tanke T-59 ndersa Sala i fuste ne burg komandantet e UCK-se
|
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Jun 4, 2009 8:55:07 GMT -5
Ndoshta kjo eshte edhe arsyeja pse po e votojne PS'ne nje perqindje e konsiderueshme te ketyre "malokeve" ?
|
|
Lib-Fier
Amicus
Bricklayer 'works for meals'
Posts: 1,092
|
Post by Lib-Fier on Jun 4, 2009 9:55:34 GMT -5
Donnie,
i think we first need to agree on a basic premise here, which is that the majority(resounding) of the Malsors vote for PD, then we can hypothesise on the reasons why, just as we can hypothesise the minority that vote for PS and their reasons for doing so,
now i strongly believe that Berisha is the reason a lot of Malsors vote for PD but its not the only reason, the north was heavily persecuted by the regime of yore, so they identify themselves as the resistance and the people who longed for the days of democrasy and they despise PS on the basis of it being affiliated with the comunist party albeit reformed.
|
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Jun 4, 2009 10:31:20 GMT -5
I don't deny a majority of Malsors vote PD. I only question how wide the difference between these two major parties is in the north. Does anybody has a map of the former elections?
|
|