Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Oct 31, 2009 17:15:41 GMT -5
If you as a Tourko Alb feel so close to your brethren tourkos why can't the sh -ites unite under the same umbrella.... now I know you read books.... but no one said they make any sense..real life situations do.. and you still have a alot to learn... Remember anyone can read that garbage you read and repeat on these pages what you read....
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Post by todhrimencuri on Oct 31, 2009 17:58:29 GMT -5
Canaris, you remind me of those village people who regard books, intellectuals and knowledge to be byproducts of the devil and that only experience chopping wood or building houses makes a person intelligent... along with the bible.
Who do you mean? Shiite/Sunni difference is history long. Go to any Sunni Muslim forum and youll see thousands of posts and topics talking about the "crimes of the Shiites", "falsity of the Shiites". The rift is huge in Islam and has historically defined borders of empires. Kurds were historically pro-Ottoman, even as they were linguisticall closer to Iranians. Azeris founded an anti-Ottoman Persian cultured dynasty in Iran that fought the Ottomans for centuries. Afghanistan and iran have never had any real connection (hell Afghanistan itself can barely keep itself together).
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Oct 31, 2009 18:20:56 GMT -5
Regarding the Kurds and their situation, I cannot tell in Turkey, but here in Sweden, a great deal of them are assimilated into Turkish culture & identity. Most of the 'Turks' I have seen in Sweden have been, mostly, of Kurdish origin. They acknowledge this but don't feel particularly strong about their Kurdish background, rather they feel happy with Turkey for whom they cheer for instance in football occasions etc. There are many of these borderline examples which almost always seem to result into assimilation into the Turkish identity. I have seen and known Kurds who speak Turkish as their mother tongue, knowing only some phrases in Kurdish (including one of my best friends). The exception seems to be the southeastern corner around Diyarbakir where there is a very conservative gathering of Kurdish patriots/nationalists and traditionalists.
It is quite different with Kurds from Iraq who seem to have preserved their identity quite strongly. But Turkish Kurds ... well, if the situation is comparable to that in Sweden, and guessing from an increased urbanization it seems plausible, the Kurds seem to be assimilating rather fast. I can count the number of 'real' Turks on my hand here in Sweden -- almost all have been 1/2 Kurdish, 1/4 Kurdish, some 100 per cent Kurdish and so on.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Oct 31, 2009 18:23:48 GMT -5
Interpretation is what bugs me.... you read one thing but your mind steers you to another. We all suffer from that ... it's called blind belief.. we are all biased in the Balkans.Sunnis and Shiites could have their troubles but when it concerns the world they are united.Why do you think they are all anti jew?
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Oct 31, 2009 18:32:29 GMT -5
Lets look how similar has been the border of older Persian states to what I stated. Also if some Kurds can feel affinity towards people fully unrelated to them (Turks) now imagine how much such inter-Iranian affinity would become stronger f they were controlled by their own close kin. Azeris appear to be for most part also linguistically assimilated locals gravitating mainly towards Iran. The Achaemenid Empire at its greatest extent, at about 500 BCGeographical extent of Iranian influence in the 1st century BC. The Parthian Empire (mostly Western Iranian) is shown in red, other areas, dominated by Scythia (mostly Eastern Iranian), in orange.The Sassanid Empire (224 – 651 AD) at its greatest extent.Map of Iranian Dynasties c. 1000Khwarezmid Empire around 1200The Safavid Empire at its 1512 (beginning) borders.Some info on last one "The Safavids were an Iranian[61] Shia dynasty of mixed Azeri[62] and Kurdish[63] origins, which ruled Persia from 1501/1502 to 1722. Safavids established the greatest Iranian empire[64] since the Islamic conquest of Persia, and established the Ithnāˤashari school of Shi'a Islam[5] as the official religion of their empire." As far as how much Kurds are in love with Turkish state lets look at bellow quote "Several large scale Kurdish revolts in 1925, 1930 and 1938 were suppressed by the Turkish government and more than one million Kurds were forcibly relocated between 1925 and 1938. The use of Kurdish language, dress, folklore, and names were banned and the Kurdish-inhabited areas remained under martial law until 1946.[45] The Ararat revolt, which reached its apex in 1930, was only suppressed after a massive military campaign including destruction of many villages and their populations. In quelling the revolt, Turkey was assisted by the close cooperation of its neighboring states such as Soviet Union and Iran. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds#In_Turkeynow about the close kinship between Kurds and Iranians "In the 17th century, a large number of Kurds were settled by Shah Abbas I to Khorasan in Eastern Iran and resettled in the cities of Northern Khorasan province (Quchan, Bojnurd, Shirvan, DareGaz, and Esfaraeen) to defend Iran's frontier against Uzbeks. "en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds#In_IranGenetics "According to a recent genetic study based on genetic distances and haplotypes, Kurds are classified as part of the Iranics, close to the Persians. [6]" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_Kurds#Connection_with_other_Middle_Eastern_and_Mediterranean_groupsPS: So is history likely to repeat itself countless time again or is perhaps some little arrogant balkanoid majmun more correct.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Oct 31, 2009 18:52:59 GMT -5
Im sorry admin. only u, a person reliant on wiki knowledge can be classified as a majmun. . Arrogant is u thinking that u as a random laborer, other some ther menial worker, in astoria can stand up to me in any intellectual cntest. Dynasts are not the discussion here (whatever mixture the Safavids had Kurdish in them, they were a Persian cultured Turkic speaking group). And the movement of peples doesnt imply kinship u retard. These were tribes and people movements placed in the peripheral zones and given land in exchange for defense. Turks did the same in the peripheral territory of the east with kurds, and at times even Armenians and ther groups. In the Balkans Serbs were used as well. Can we speak of Ottoman-Serb kinship? LOL! Empires do this constantly. Romans settled germanic tribes in certain territories and had them fight against other germans. Do u think the Safavids, a Turkic speaking grup, and the Kurdish illiterate tribes had any knolwedge of any such kinship? LOL! At most Iran might make closer links with the Tajiks, but the Kurds are Sunni and would never fall into it.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Oct 31, 2009 20:08:03 GMT -5
Ok my little Simpanza let me explain
1) Kin as in both being Iranic.
2) The religion will cease to be a factor fully not that far into the future so Sunni or not will not make a difference. Interest will.
Kurds under Iran will also guaranty Kurds in one state (which is , like them, Iranic). This alternative has not been properly presented to them (or if that does not work then it has not been forced on them - if it has, within new Persia, they would become Persian within 2 generations - hell .. they already are ). Ethnic Kurds (not assimilated ones) in Turkey are almost new Ottoman Armenians as far as their rights go much less about some Kurdish romanticism towards Istanbul.
PS: New Persia will become reality the moment Turkey become fully obsolete in the eyes of the western world.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Nov 1, 2009 10:44:41 GMT -5
Your posts are so dumb I have the urge to think that they are joke just to toy around with me.... but I know your not too bright.
Lol. Okay. A person with absolutely no knowledge of the situation is trying to inform me. Okay. Iran, being a nation 50 years behind Turkey plus will eventually expand at its cost. Especially one suffering deep political turmoil and awaiting a counter revolution that would send it back nearly a century before it can recover.
Oh and the last of the maps you posted were Turkic in character. The Persians have no ruled their own land since the Sassanids.
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Nov 1, 2009 16:51:18 GMT -5
"American interpretation of Turkey 2050." Vizier, remember a map released by the US showing her aims of the middle east, in that map a Kurdish republic is born. I wouldn't take american thoughts too seriously, they are a two faced nation. I remember that map. It is already history due the American weaknesses, not due to their poker faces. ;D An independent Kurdish republic destruction of 4 nation states. Turkey, Iran, Syria, Iraq. Not really possible. The Western imperialists are not as powerful as they used to be, they are more of some paper tigers, just like their stock markets. ;D
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Nov 1, 2009 17:11:55 GMT -5
PS: If anything should be taken into consideration is probable future united Persia that will include all Iranic speaking groups (and possibly Shiite Arabophone Iraq) and stretch from Indus river in Pakistan to Tigris and Euphrates in present Iraq ending in eastern Anatolian Kurdistan. I do not know where you got that map, but Iran has strong Turkic element, who are mostly Azeris, Turkmen and Turks. The Kurds are more close to the Turks than to the Iranians. In fact, Iranians are like 35 million peoples whereas the Turks/Azeris/Turkmen/Uzbeks who live within the map you show is about 120-125 million peoples. ;D
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Nov 2, 2009 2:21:36 GMT -5
If you as a Tourko Alb feel so close to your brethren tourkos why can't the sh -ites unite under the same umbrella.... now I know you read books.... but no one said they make any sense..real life situations do.. and you still have a alot to learn... Remember anyone can read that garbage you read and repeat on these pages what you read.... Why didnt Greece union with Russia and Ukraine instead of non-Orthodox Italy, Germany, the UK, France, Holland, Belgium? ;D If Russia did not help you to execute a " revolution", then you could have been polishing the shoes of Albo-Turco pashas in Chios. ;D
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Post by thracian08 on Nov 2, 2009 18:04:51 GMT -5
Sure there is opposition to Turkey joining the EU, my point is that whether the countries like it or not, it will happen eventually due to demographics of Turkey and the EU needing to do so, or else, they will not be able to compete in the business world.
And you talk without having any knowledge of the Turkish economy. All you say is geographic and we all know that' s not the case. That is why Turkey is looking to go into the EU and not have an alliance with USA as much because it is an economic partnership, not a American vs. Soviet Union going on anymore.
Your own country's human rights are a disgrace actually. You also have no clue about Turkey and rights people have there - anyone regardless of their ethnic background has a right to education, jobs, etc. Greeks & Armenians go to their own schools. In fact, many Kurds have gov't scholarships, and they also have their own party in parliament. And the PKK killers - the armed ones have not been killed b/c Turkey's laws are lax - there is no capital punishment. In the US, if anyone wants to ced from US, the punishment is death.
Have you ever thought that Russian men are drunkards, and don't take care of their families. That's why Russian women marry foreigners? That is what I have heard from Russians themselves.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 2, 2009 19:23:36 GMT -5
"Today, Turkey wages a dirty war against the Kurds who are fighting for recognition of their identity, and the right to express their language and culture. Almost 30,000 Kurds, government forces and civilians have been sacrificed. Three million Kurds are now refugees, and 3,000 Kurdish villages have been razed to the ground by Turkish troops."www.lobbyforcyprus.org/statements/fact_files/humanrights_in_turkey/Cyprus_45.htm
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 2, 2009 19:27:11 GMT -5
"Have you ever thought that Russian men are drunkards, and don't take care of their families. That's why Russian women marry foreigners? That is what I have heard from Russians themselves."
I was trying to tell you that you might be faced with a shortage of males to pick and choose from, unless your parents have arranged someone for you to marry.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Nov 2, 2009 22:02:45 GMT -5
"Today, Turkey wages a dirty war against the Kurds who are fighting for recognition of their identity, and the right to express their language and culture. Almost 30,000 Kurds, government forces and civilians have been sacrificed. Three million Kurds are now refugees, and 3,000 Kurdish villages have been razed to the ground by Turkish troops."www.lobbyforcyprus.org/statements/fact_files/humanrights_in_turkey/Cyprus_45.htmDid u really quote from "Lobby for Cyprus"?
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Nov 3, 2009 1:32:30 GMT -5
Did u really quote from "Lobby for Cyprus"? Seems like he really did.
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Post by EriTopSheqeri on Nov 3, 2009 2:57:32 GMT -5
ROFL , epic fail
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 3, 2009 7:54:24 GMT -5
"Human Rights Watch is critical of Turkey, too, describing its campaign against the PKK in the 1980s and '90s as "marked by scores of 'disappearances' and extrajudicial executions" and saying about 3,000Kurdish villages were "virtually wiped from the map." " www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_532537.htmlAgain, Turkey is extremely lucky that its strategic position has covered up its appalling human rights record. "ROFL , epic fail" Don't call it an epic fail yet, hold your horses for a moment.
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Post by aaayyy on Nov 3, 2009 13:30:32 GMT -5
Ottomans would have hampered the development of Europe, as they did with Balkans.
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Post by thracian08 on Nov 3, 2009 14:57:06 GMT -5
You take an article from Greek Cypriots, who harboured the PKK and pose it as fact. The Greek Cypriots should look at themselves for killing and discriminating against Turkish Cypriots ! They are such hypocrites! And then they complain that Turks came and invaded the island. Turkey had every right to come and save the Turks on that island, as the Greeks started killing them to make a greater Greece.
Also, Kurdish refugees came from Iraq to escape Saddam's gasing of the Kurds.
Turks set up refugee camps to take them in.
Between 1984 and 1999, the PKK and the Turkish military engaged in open war, and much of the countryside in the southeast was depopulated, as Kurdish civilians moved to local defensible centers such as Diyarbakýr, Van, and Þýrnak, as well as to the cities of western Turkey and even to western Europe. The causes of the depopulation included PKK atrocities against Kurdish clans they could not control, the poverty of the southeast, and the Turkish state's military operations.
Yes, many people have died in the conflict, I am not disputing this.
What you state that Kurds wanting cultural rights has nothing to do with the PKK.
PKK fights against Turkey to have their own Kurdish country.
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