Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Aug 12, 2009 22:37:37 GMT -5
Some people such as Gunther & Coon hypothesize that Dinaricisation is a process. Others that there is a Dinaric origin. In any case whichever of these is true it can fit in with my hypothesis that the Balkan Dinarics are both native but also (in the majority) Slavic settlers. I say there are significant differences between Albanian Dinarics & Slavic ones! So where did the Slavic Dinarics come from?
Start here…
en.allexperts.com/e/s/se/serboi.htm
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/7681/origins_6.html
Denikers Races of Europe
OK so this is not new theory but has anyone used Denikers European racial map as support? I've roughly overlayed a map of Europe over Denikers European racial map. You can see that there is somewhat a Dinaric trail leading from the Russian north Caucasus Kuban district through Ukraine & into Slovakia which is classified as entirely Dinaric. The south slav Balkans are then entirely classified as Dinaric with a few spots in Albania (possibly representing a Slavic penetration
). Serbia & Montenegro are unclassified but are Dinaric.
Now when you look at the trail of present day Dinarics it’s almost as though it was written to tell the exact story of the Serboi.
These are the geographic references…
1.Sarmatian Beginnings North of the Caucuses in present day Russia.
- Tacitus (ca. 50 AD): described the Serboi tribe near the Caucasus, close to the hinterland into the Black Sea.
- Pliny the Younger in his Geographica in the first century AD (69-75) mentions the Serboi as living on the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov.
- Herodotus (2nd century) writes in his Persian Wars that Serboi or Sirboi live behind the Caucasus, near the hinterland of the Black Sea.
- Ptolemy (2nd century) identifies the 'Serboi' as a Sarmatian tribe who lived north of the Caucasus, and other sources identify the Serboi as an Alan tribe in the Volga-Don steppe in the third century.
2. Migration to the Carpathian Mountains
- In late Roman documents, the Eastern Carpathian Mountains were referred to as In late Roman documents, the Eastern Carpathian Mountains were referred to as Montes Sarmatici. The Western Carpathians were called Carpates. The name Carpates is first recorded in Ptolemy's second century book Geographia. Around 310 AD the Carpathians are mentioned as Montes Serrorum by the Flavius Galerius Valerius Licinianus Licinius.
- In the fourth century, Serboi, together with Huns and Alans, moved to Central Europe, and were found dwelling near the Elbe, in a region designated as White Serbia, in what is now Sachsen (eastern Germany) and western Poland. The Serboi, it is argued, intermarried with the indigenous Slavs of the region, adopted their language, and transferred their name to the Slavs. Since the white colour was designation for the west, name 'White Serbia' actually could mean 'Western Serbia'.
Now obviously ancient people are not going to necessarily always leave a genetic trace on whoever resides there in modern times so is this Dinaric trail just a coincidence? There are a couple of areas that we can look at which have the Dinaric type. The Russian district known as Kuban in the north Caucuses & the Dinaric areas of Ukraine & the Carpathians through Slovakia & Romania.
So far a quick search has found this… very interesting!
The anthropological type of the Ukrainians, then, reveals complete individuality as opposed to the Polish, White Russian and Russian type, and betrays no noticeable trace of a Mongolian admixture. The difference of the Ukrainian type from the types of other Eastern Slavs caught the attention of the great geographer, Reclus, in the eighties of the past century. At that time he noticed the closer relationship of the Ukrainians to the Southern Slavs. Toward the end of the 19th Century, Hamy divided all the Slavs into two large groups, a tall brachicephalous group with dark hair, and a short, less brachicephalous group with light hair. In the first group he included the Serbians, Croatians, Slovenes, Czechs and Ukrainians; in the second the Polabians, Poles, White Russians and Russians. A similar division was accepted also by Deniker. According to his view the Ukrainians belong to the so-called Adriatic (Dinaric) Race, while the Poles and the Russians belong to the two closely related races, the Vistula Race and the Oriental Race, respectively. The Adriatic Race has recently come to be considered by many the specifically Slavic Race. However, it has remained comparatively pure only in the case of the Southern Slavs and the Ukrain- ians, while the Northern Slavic races reveal strong foreign admixtures.
^ Expert says Dinarics or their other terms Adriatics are the pure slavs!
Start here…
en.allexperts.com/e/s/se/serboi.htm
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/7681/origins_6.html
Denikers Races of Europe
OK so this is not new theory but has anyone used Denikers European racial map as support? I've roughly overlayed a map of Europe over Denikers European racial map. You can see that there is somewhat a Dinaric trail leading from the Russian north Caucasus Kuban district through Ukraine & into Slovakia which is classified as entirely Dinaric. The south slav Balkans are then entirely classified as Dinaric with a few spots in Albania (possibly representing a Slavic penetration
). Serbia & Montenegro are unclassified but are Dinaric. Now when you look at the trail of present day Dinarics it’s almost as though it was written to tell the exact story of the Serboi.
These are the geographic references…
1.Sarmatian Beginnings North of the Caucuses in present day Russia.
- Tacitus (ca. 50 AD): described the Serboi tribe near the Caucasus, close to the hinterland into the Black Sea.
- Pliny the Younger in his Geographica in the first century AD (69-75) mentions the Serboi as living on the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov.
- Herodotus (2nd century) writes in his Persian Wars that Serboi or Sirboi live behind the Caucasus, near the hinterland of the Black Sea.
- Ptolemy (2nd century) identifies the 'Serboi' as a Sarmatian tribe who lived north of the Caucasus, and other sources identify the Serboi as an Alan tribe in the Volga-Don steppe in the third century.
2. Migration to the Carpathian Mountains
- In late Roman documents, the Eastern Carpathian Mountains were referred to as In late Roman documents, the Eastern Carpathian Mountains were referred to as Montes Sarmatici. The Western Carpathians were called Carpates. The name Carpates is first recorded in Ptolemy's second century book Geographia. Around 310 AD the Carpathians are mentioned as Montes Serrorum by the Flavius Galerius Valerius Licinianus Licinius.
- In the fourth century, Serboi, together with Huns and Alans, moved to Central Europe, and were found dwelling near the Elbe, in a region designated as White Serbia, in what is now Sachsen (eastern Germany) and western Poland. The Serboi, it is argued, intermarried with the indigenous Slavs of the region, adopted their language, and transferred their name to the Slavs. Since the white colour was designation for the west, name 'White Serbia' actually could mean 'Western Serbia'.
Now obviously ancient people are not going to necessarily always leave a genetic trace on whoever resides there in modern times so is this Dinaric trail just a coincidence? There are a couple of areas that we can look at which have the Dinaric type. The Russian district known as Kuban in the north Caucuses & the Dinaric areas of Ukraine & the Carpathians through Slovakia & Romania.
So far a quick search has found this… very interesting!
The anthropological type of the Ukrainians, then, reveals complete individuality as opposed to the Polish, White Russian and Russian type, and betrays no noticeable trace of a Mongolian admixture. The difference of the Ukrainian type from the types of other Eastern Slavs caught the attention of the great geographer, Reclus, in the eighties of the past century. At that time he noticed the closer relationship of the Ukrainians to the Southern Slavs. Toward the end of the 19th Century, Hamy divided all the Slavs into two large groups, a tall brachicephalous group with dark hair, and a short, less brachicephalous group with light hair. In the first group he included the Serbians, Croatians, Slovenes, Czechs and Ukrainians; in the second the Polabians, Poles, White Russians and Russians. A similar division was accepted also by Deniker. According to his view the Ukrainians belong to the so-called Adriatic (Dinaric) Race, while the Poles and the Russians belong to the two closely related races, the Vistula Race and the Oriental Race, respectively. The Adriatic Race has recently come to be considered by many the specifically Slavic Race. However, it has remained comparatively pure only in the case of the Southern Slavs and the Ukrain- ians, while the Northern Slavic races reveal strong foreign admixtures.
^ Expert says Dinarics or their other terms Adriatics are the pure slavs!
