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Post by alb12345 on Jun 4, 2010 11:09:20 GMT -5
Communism is not to blame for albanians that have changed names. If communism is to blame why ONLY in greece and why not in other countrys ? Italy has far more albanians then greece and have committed more crimes then in greece but they never will change they names or say they something else apart from albanian.You cant ask for nothing in a country when even the government is against you let alone the normal people. Statistics show that albanians in greece last few years have committed less crimes compared with greeks or other nacionalities but still they make 40% of jails populacion, germany,italy and switzerland have more albanians but they dont jail humans for religion or nacionality like hellas does.
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Post by alb12345 on Jun 4, 2010 11:14:52 GMT -5
i would really like to know what decent albanian immigrants in greece think about that...if such a thing exists... Here a typical orthodox anatolian malaga things that all albanian immigrants are criminals  ptuuu pushti |
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 4, 2010 11:19:06 GMT -5
Jo more! Po ato Shqiptaret qe dalin neper rruge duke quajtur vetes 'Roberto','Angelo', 'Cezare'... kjo epidem nuk eshte vetem ne Greqi por edhe ne Itali.
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Post by EriTopSheqeri on Jun 4, 2010 11:42:48 GMT -5
^^^7 vjet ketu une nuk kam pare asnje rast te atille. Stereotip i perhapur nga njerez qe s'kane shkelur kurre ne Itali.
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Post by alb12345 on Jun 4, 2010 11:45:57 GMT -5
Jo more! Po ato Shqiptaret qe dalin neper rruge duke quajtur vetes 'Roberto','Angelo', 'Cezare'... kjo epidem nuk eshte vetem ne Greqi por edhe ne Itali. Ne itali nuk i detyron kush me ndryshuar emrat shqiptaret kurse ne greqi jane te detyruar se jetojne ne nje shtet fashist ku paragjykohen nga emri nga vijne edhe cfe kane. Pse ti kujton se ne greqi shqipet kane qef me u quajt kristoqos janopolis etc nuk kane rruge tjeter keto te shkretet. Sa i perket italise une nuk kam degjuar deri tani ndonje rast shqiptar qe ka ndryshuar emrin, edhe nuk na takon as mua as ti me fol per italine le te flet Ermiri edhe ajo goca nga kosova Arbana se keto jetojne ne itali. |
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jun 4, 2010 12:32:11 GMT -5
I knew an albo named Naim and we called him Anaxagoras...  ... Why Bulgarian immigrants, who btw are very dignified(in majority), don't show that are annoyed if we ask their nationality and answer their real one, and their real names, Pavel, Mlatko, Janko, Svetlana, Xeskistova, etc etc ... and feel pretty proud for their origins, even if "Voulgaros" in Greece after so many centuries of rivalry wasn't so "popular"... combining classical balkanoid virtues(criminality, ungratefulness, envy etc) and ethnic rivarly(which in the case of Albos we didn't really even had...if you exclude the Tourkalvanous who are viewed mainly as part of the Ottomans...)... I have to say again that Bulgarian immigrants are welcomed, because in their majority is much bigger from their non wanted part. Albanians despite the improvement they show the last decade, creating dignified families, work hard, study their kids, sent them at the universities etc etc, show relatively and analogically tragic numbers of criminality in all levels, from rapes(a week ago an Alvanos father arrested after ...raping continuously his two kids...  ), thefts, killings, pimping, riots, and all the...menu... |
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Post by restless1gr on Jun 5, 2010 1:19:11 GMT -5
Statistics show that albanians in greece last few years have committed less crimes compared with greeks or other nacionalities but still they make 40% of jails populacion, germany,italy and switzerland have more albanians but they dont jail humans for religion or nacionality like hellas does. The last sentence does not depict at all the attitude of greeks and I m sure you ve never heard it, you just suppose it happens. Religion is a thing that will never be a cause of jailing here, that's for sure. On the contrary. We have been apathetic to everything, more than we should be, and the results of our apathy you can see in our present situation of economic collapse where our unpunished politicians brought us. Recent tendency of many Greeks to become more nationalistic and racist, is the extreme reaction to our past apathy. Anyway, I suppose there are as many albanian criminals as the rest of the nationalities here, including the greeks, but maybe the albanians are not such capable criminals after all, since they didn't manage to avoid prison here  ;D |
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mpuq
Amicus
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Post by mpuq on Jun 5, 2010 7:40:45 GMT -5
Jo more! Po ato Shqiptaret qe dalin neper rruge duke quajtur vetes 'Roberto','Angelo', 'Cezare'... kjo epidem nuk eshte vetem ne Greqi por edhe ne Itali. Ne itali nuk i detyron kush me ndryshuar emrat shqiptaret kurse ne greqi jane te detyruar se jetojne ne nje shtet fashist ku paragjykohen nga emri nga vijne edhe cfe kane. Pse ti kujton se ne greqi shqipet kane qef me u quajt kristoqos janopolis etc nuk kane rruge tjeter keto te shkretet. Sa i perket italise une nuk kam degjuar deri tani ndonje rast shqiptar qe ka ndryshuar emrin, edhe nuk na takon as mua as ti me fol per italine le te flet Ermiri edhe ajo goca nga kosova Arbana se keto jetojne ne itali. Shqipet n'Itali nuk nrrojn emnat (nuk osht kollaj me nrru emnin ktu n'Itali...zakonisht Shteti lejon nrrimin e emnave kur kta t'fundit kan t'bojn me fjal t'pista pernryshe nuk ta nrron kush emnin) por, disa (dhe nuk jon shumica), vejn fmive te tyne emna italion por kurr nuk kom taku shqipe qe nuk thot me plot goj "io sono albanese" (un jom shqiptar)..zakonisht ktu shqipet (ata qe kan lind, jon rrit ktu) kan tendencen me fol italisht me shqipet e tjera...disa nga menjemadhesia e disa sps kshtu vjen ma kollaj...i njeh nga ajo "moj" qe vejn n'qdo fjal lol..."come stai moj??dove andiamo moj??....." ;D ;D ;D...manej kur dojn mos me i kuptu tjert ja rrasin shqip  .... edhe un qe jom rrit ktu shpesh kom impulsin me fol italisht ose me fut fjal italisht kur flas shqip sps m'vjen natyrale...ky ves me pak mund dhe pun heket kollaj amo..mjafton me dasht.... ps: dhe mos boni kurr gabimin me krahasu ni popull si ai italion me kta far greket medievaloshpellar, thnx... italiont jon kejt tjeter brum.. |
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Post by alb12345 on Jun 5, 2010 13:05:54 GMT -5
How can innocent albanians be capable criminals  Still i dont fell sorry for these albanians that live in greece its 20 years now is not a question of starvation anymore, or lets see europe(gr part of eu) after 50 years of isolacion its 2010 not 1991 they still live a racist and xenophobic country when just a few weeks ago the army of the country they live in was shouting kill albanians. Greeks like you and many like you just fear albanians without a reason; These Greek insecurities cover a wide spectrum, from fears that Albanians might break into houses, stealing and killing, to threats against the cultural and blood "purity" of the Greek population, and fears for the potential formation of a minority of ethnic Albanians in Greece. In the collective social consciousness crime is closely connected with immigrants, particularly those from Albania. Researchers agree that the percentage of crime for which the Albanians are responsible, compared to the rest of the immigrant population in Greece, was only 4.5%, and was thus directly proportional to their numbers and, therefore, not exceptionally high.  |
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Post by restless1gr on Jun 5, 2010 15:23:12 GMT -5
How can innocent albanians be capable criminals Still i dont fell sorry for these albanians that live in greece its 20 years now is not a question of starvation anymore, or lets see europe(gr part of eu) after 50 years of isolacion its 2010 not 1991 they still live a racist and xenophobic country when just a few weeks ago the army of the country they live in was shouting kill albanians. Greeks like you and many like you just fear albanians without a reason; These Greek insecurities cover a wide spectrum, from fears that Albanians might break into houses, stealing and killing, to threats against the cultural and blood "purity" of the Greek population, and fears for the potential formation of a minority of ethnic Albanians in Greece. In the collective social consciousness crime is closely connected with immigrants, particularly those from Albania. Researchers agree that the percentage of crime for which the Albanians are responsible, compared to the rest of the immigrant population in Greece, was only 4.5%, and was thus directly proportional to their numbers and, therefore, not exceptionally high. Didn't you read anything else I ve written in this thread, man??? What I said about criminals was a JOKE, because someone said that 40% of people in greek prisons are albanians!!! Above, I explain my views, just read it and then come again and tell me "greeks like you, bla bla bla..." |
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Post by Red Brigade on Jun 6, 2010 9:39:47 GMT -5
I don't understand why someone should be proud of his nationality given that nobody choses his nationality in the first place. Nationality is matter of coincidence, your father happened to impregnate your mother and you simply happened to be one of the millions spermatozoons that fertilized the ovum.
Being proud of your own personal achievements makes more sense. Usually people with low self-esteem have a tendency of associating themselves which larger groups of people (nation, football club fans, political groups) because they feel insecure.
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Post by kolonia on Jun 6, 2010 13:38:54 GMT -5
I don't understand why someone should be proud of his nationality given that nobody choses his nationality in the first place. Nationality is matter of coincidence, your father happened to impregnate your mother and you simply happened to be one of the millions spermatozoons that fertilized the ovum. Being proud of your own personal achievements makes more sense. Usually people with low self-esteem have a tendency of associating themselves which larger groups of people (nation, football club fans, political groups) because they feel insecure.You just described the majority of the world population. |
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Post by restless1gr on Jun 6, 2010 14:00:46 GMT -5
Being proud of your own personal achievements makes more sense. . Nice point, I agree, but nationality brings people of the same "kind" together so they can form a society. Therefore, at least in my oppinion, its crucial to be proud for your micro-society among all the micro-societies of the large society made by the human kind. The ideal is to be proud of yourself and of your nation. But I don't agree with what you say about low self-esteem. Let's not be so pessimist. In my oppinion, people need to be together just to interact and achieve more. |
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Post by hellboy87 on Jun 6, 2010 15:17:57 GMT -5
I don't understand why someone should be proud of his nationality given that nobody choses his nationality in the first place. Nationality is matter of coincidence, your father happened to impregnate your mother and you simply happened to be one of the millions spermatozoons that fertilized the ovum. Being proud of your own personal achievements makes more sense. Usually people with low self-esteem have a tendency of associating themselves which larger groups of people (nation, football club fans, political groups) because they feel insecure. hmmmmmmmmmmm.............Where did you get this from?  Because......... I like being part of the exclusive club ;D |
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 6, 2010 15:40:25 GMT -5
It has nothing to do with self-esteem. It is natural for people to fall into groupings, whether familial, tribal, religious, ethnic, social, geographical, etc. etc. With that comes a sense of attachment and closeness. People are proud of their parents, for instance, or that their great-grandparents fought in some war or did something. Nationalism is an extension of that.
You as a socialist, Red, should know that better than anyone else. Afterall, Marx said much of the same.
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Post by hellboy87 on Jun 7, 2010 0:51:06 GMT -5
Yes toski
Humans are tribal by nature.It's to do with survival.It's partly to do with self-esteem.People like being associated with anything positive or beneficial.
I think many Albanians are nationalistic.I see it more as them being defensive.Thats what it appears to me.
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Post by andromeda on Jun 7, 2010 11:12:39 GMT -5
I never knew there was a difference between the two. False dichotomy maybe?
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Post by andromeda on Jun 7, 2010 11:24:28 GMT -5
Patriotism : A tool used by governments to get the 'voluntary' obedience of their people. Very similar to religion in many aspects.
Nationalism: Loyalty to regional ( national) masters who insist that obeying them is good since the master's government symbolizes 'the nation.' Flags , songs , and similar adornments are commonly used.
In both ideologies , degrees of xenophobia are a natural outgrowth. Individuality is frowned upon or limited based on the group's tolerance towards individual identity in relation to the 'nation.' Obedience to others in power is the main goal of both.
Two sides to the same coin. Patriotism seems like a more acceptable way of referring to nationalism.
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Post by logjiktek on Jun 7, 2010 11:34:52 GMT -5
^^^
I don't think love with one country goes hand in hand with love of one's government. A person can look up to their culture, their actions of their ancestors, the countries history and so forth, but could still dislike thier current government. This point is especially true of Albanians. Many Albanians, no matter from what region or even country they come from, dislike their government, yet, these same people have strong feelings for their cultural identity.
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Post by andromeda on Jun 7, 2010 11:44:00 GMT -5
Yes , its the worship of culture , ancestry , war heroes , that make patriotism a very effective tool in controlling the masses. Its most prevalent when a government wishes to turn its citizens' scrutiny outwards rather than inwards. The government then becomes a 'protector' of the nation against external threats when usually there are none , or if there are , they are instigated by those fanning the flames of patriotism/nationalism. This is a recurring theme , esp in the Balkans.
Culture has the potential to breed patriotism and nationalism and people that desire power often pray on that weakness.
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ptuuu pushti 
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), thefts, killings, pimping, riots, and all the...menu...
.... edhe un qe jom rrit ktu shpesh kom impulsin me fol italisht ose me fut fjal italisht kur flas shqip sps m'vjen natyrale...ky ves me pak mund dhe pun heket kollaj amo..mjafton me dasht....
Still i dont fell sorry for these albanians that live in greece its 20 years now is not a question of starvation anymore, or lets see europe(gr part of eu) after 50 years of isolacion its 2010 not 1991 they still live a racist and xenophobic country when just a few weeks ago the army of the country they live in was shouting kill albanians. 
