Proof ataturk was a Yörük Turkmen From balkan

[proudtobeturk]

::)



Profesori turk Enver Behnam Shapolyo shkruan: "Për gjyshërit e Ataturkut kisha pyetur një shok shkolle të Ataturkut, që ka qenë deputet, i quajtur Haxhi Mehmeti. Ai më tha:-Gjyshërit e Ataturkut janë nga komuna e Dibrës, Koxhshëk, të cilët kishin ardhur nga Konja e Anadollit dhe flisnin turqisht, për këtë shkak quheshin edhe "konjarë"...


Mustafa was born as the son of Mr and Mrs Ali Rýza Efendi Turkish and Zübeyde Haným in Salonika, which was then a part of the Ottoman Empire. It was also home to various peoples in the cosmopolitan Muslims with Jews and Christians lived together peacefully mainly. Mustafa's paternal grandfather, Kýzýl Hafýz Ahmed was one of the Yörük Türkmen. His mother was the daughter of an old peasant, originally from Konya, Karaman-derived family of the little town Langasa (now Langadas) in Thessaloniki. The parents were married 1871,



"Efendiler, benim atalarým Anadolu'dan Rumeli'ye gelmiþ Yörük Türkmenler'dendir "
M.Kemal Atatürk


"Gentlemen, my ancestors came from Anatolia to Rumelia is from the Turkmen Yörük "
M. Kemal Ataturk

[logjiktek]

Eh he could've been mixed. I kinda find it funny how far you guys go proving he was Turkish. Aren't his actions more then enough?

[thracian08]

Well, Logik, I think anybody could be mixed then - no one is pure then. I mean why do you say that? You can say that to just about anyone then right?

Well based on his family tree so no he would't be mixed. Also Yoruks lifestyle wouldn't allow mixing as they are nomadic ppl.

The reason he's pointing it out is b/c there are ppl making stupid accusations against Ataturk.

[proudtobeturk]

Nov 22, 2010 19:15:33 GMT -5 logjiktek said:

Eh he could've been mixed. I kinda find it funny how far you guys go proving he was Turkish. Aren't his actions more then enough?

well we are all Mixed by their ancestors

[proudtobeturk]

Nov 23, 2010 14:01:28 GMT -5 thracian08 said:

Well, Logik, I think anybody could be mixed then - no one is pure then. I mean why do you say that? You can say that to just about anyone then right?

Well based on his family tree so no he would't be mixed. Also Yoruks lifestyle wouldn't allow mixing as they are nomadic ppl.
.

I think anybody could be mixed then - no one is pure

Yörük Turks of balkan were mixed with balkanians peoples when they came to Balkan in 14th from ottoman empire

I am also Mixed Turks to in modern age we are all mixed

[rex362]

^with greeks as well ?

[thracian08]

and what is your heritage Proud Turk?

[logjiktek]

Mixed as there are other sources that claim he was Albanian, Slavic, Jewish etc. Personally I don't care for any of this because he's the founder of Modern Turkey and his actions are more important then what his ethnicity may have been.

I just find it interesting how far you guys go to prove his ethnicity. Like I said, he's the founder of Modern Turkey, even if he was full blooded Slav for example, it would not mean much.

[coris]

well his ideology was: your blood-ties, your ancestry etc. does not matter, if you feel turkish, you are a turk. Even tho i think he cannot possibly be a yörük türkmen due to his physical features, his action made him the father of all turks as we know today. However, afaik his father was indeed albanian(it is said that people used to call him Arnavut Ali) whereas his mother was turkish. But one can never be sure.

[Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning]

Says who?

his physical features?

Where are u getting these "facts" from?

Arnavut Ali? I have never heard that...

[coris]

yeah blonde hair, fair skin and blue eyes are not the typical yörük features as anyone might imagine. However, all of these traits are very common in the balkans. There are many theories about Atatürk's origins. I just wrote the one I believe is trueand according to that particilar theory his father was indeed a bektashi albanian. But as I just said, its just the one I believe in you are free to believe something else.

[Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning]

Actually they are typical Yoruk features. What exactly do you know about how Yoruks looked.
According to Albanians he was Albanian, according to Greeks, he was Greek, According to Jewish people he was Jewish.
However he was a self proclaimed Yoruk Turk.

Which Bektashi sends their child to religious school anyway lol...

anyway thanks for clarifying that it was just your opinion, and not actually anything factual. I did try to google "arnavut ali" and nothing returned.. still... we shall never know.

[odel]

May 9, 2011 19:13:29 GMT -5 Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning said:

Actually they are typical Yoruk features. What exactly do you know about how Yoruks looked.
According to Albanians he was Albanian, according to Greeks, he was Greek, According to Jewish people he was Jewish.
However he was a self proclaimed Yoruk Turk.

Which Bektashi sends their child to religious school anyway lol...

anyway thanks for clarifying that it was just your opinion, and not actually anything factual. I did try to google "arnavut ali" and nothing returned.. still... we shall never know.

Yes, Turkmen are known for their blonde features

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_R%C4%B1za_Efendi

www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,860057-2,00.html

I doubt he was an Anatolian Turk very much.

[Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning]

Do you know what Yoruk Turks look like ?

I assume 100% ignorant.

[odel]

May 10, 2011 4:25:40 GMT -5 Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning said:

Do you know what Yoruk Turks look like ?

I assume 100% ignorant.

According to you, they're Hitler's wet dream. Instead of using rethoric, try actually arguing. You didn't answer to what I wrote at all, also you didn't take the two links that I posted into consideration.

Why do you have such complexes concerning Turks? Most Turks and darks and the few that aren't dark are of mostly Balkan origin, some few of them from other European places and some from the Caucasus. We have a prime example of a blonde Turk here, Coris. He's of mostly Albanian origin with perhaps some Greek.

[Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning]

If you had posted real sources, not Wikipedia, perhaps I would have bothered to argue, however in your own wikipedia source, we can see from the references given that they are pretty weak sources.

Also I have read Andrew Mango's book and it doesn't say he is Albanian once in that book.
In fact this is from the book:

“some at least of their ancestors had originally come from Turkey, since local Muslims of Albanian and Slav origin who had no ethnic connection with Turkey spoke Albanian, Serbo-Croat or Bulgarian, at least so long as they remained in their native land.” (18)

So why would his family be speaking Turkish in Macedonia, in those years?

In addition:
The other sources given are at most heresay typical balkan "I heard that....." style.

So when you actually come up with a real factual source perhaps then we can debate or even, i will be convinced. Of course go and do your homework about Yoruk Turks, who are known for being very light, with coloured eyes and and blonde hair. Then come back to me

[Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning]

Why do you have such complexes concerning Turks? Most Turks and darks and the few that aren't dark are of mostly Balkan origin, some few of them from other European places and some from the Caucasus

excuse me? where have I ever had a complex about Turks. Turks are a very diverse people. How ignorant.

[odel]

May 10, 2011 6:39:22 GMT -5 Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning said:

Why do you have such complexes concerning Turks? Most Turks and darks and the few that aren't dark are of mostly Balkan origin, some few of them from other European places and some from the Caucasus

excuse me? where have I ever had a complex about Turks. Turks are a very diverse people. How ignorant.

Sure, pure Turks with blonde features You trying to portray the Youruks as a people with blondish features but at the same time as purebred Turks is something I believe comes from some deep complexes you have.

Btw, I'm not going to do any research about blonde Turks, you're the one claiming they are so and you're the one that claims to know better than me so prove it.

“some at least of their ancestors had originally come from Turkey, since local Muslims of Albanian and Slav origin who had no ethnic connection with Turkey spoke Albanian, Serbo-Croat or Bulgarian, at least so long as they remained in their native land.” (18)

So why would his family be speaking Turkish in Macedonia, in those years?

First of, what Mango says is actually really wrong. A lot of Albanians, Serbo-Croats and Bulgarians became "Turks", and spoke the Turkish language. There still are a lot of these "Turks" in the Balkans, they're not descended from any Anatolian but they're just simply Turkified Balkanians.

They were living in the Ottoman empire for instance, a lot of people knew how to speak Turkish, and Macedonia was one of the regions were it was more usual. And as I've said before a lot of people were Turkified, your arguement that "If they weren't Turkish, why did they speak Turkish" is ridiculous.

[Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning]

So your ignorance is clearly displayed with the line "pure Turks with blonde features".

There are pure Turks who are red heads, green eyes, blonde.. etc. These Turks are not just in Turkey but all over the Turkish world. This doesn't mean that most Turks do not have dark hair and hazel or light brown eyes.
The Oghuz Turks were defined as having light hair and coloured eyes, Yoruks are known to be their descendants.
You are uneducated in this subject - I think its best that you educate yourself rather than talk doo doo here.

What Mango said is wrong? You mean the most respected and prominent historian/expert/author about Ataturk?
Care to give me a better educated, better researched historian in this field?

Also your logic is distorted, in Ottoman times, Greeks spoke Greek, Bulgarians spoke Bulgarian etc etc... In a place like Macedonia a huge ethnic mix, people held onto their roots by speaking their language.
As Coris said, his family can still speak Albanian, but since they live in Turkey they also speak Turkish... would they have learnt Turkish if they lived in Albania? The Ottomans were administration in most areas, yes there was Turkish settlements, however they weren't always the majority.
In Ataturks families case in his own words: His only joy in life was to be born a Turk.

I hate arguing with uneducated, ignorant people, therefore I invite you to educate yourself in this subject and not just parrot what you read from Albanian forums.. ok.

[odel]

So your ignorance is clearly displayed with the line "pure Turks with blonde features".

There are pure Turks who are red heads, green eyes, blonde.. etc. These Turks are not just in Turkey but all over the Turkish world. This doesn't mean that most Turks do not have dark hair and hazel or light brown eyes.

The Oghuz Turks were defined as having light hair and coloured eyes, Yoruks are known to be their descendants.

You are uneducated in this subject - I think its best that you educate yourself rather than talk doo doo here.

If there are Turks with red hair, green eyes and etc they're not pure Turks, it's simple. Those features are mostly derived from European sources and to some extent Caucasians surely. I would like to see any source that describes the Oghuz Turks as predominantly blonde thx. Seriously, people of Asian origin with blonde features? I think not.

What Mango said is wrong? You mean the most respected and prominent historian/expert/author about Ataturk?
Care to give me a better educated, better researched historian in this field?

LOL. Being the most prominent historian concerning Ataturk doesn't imply that he's right about everything, especially something that doesn't have anything to do with Ataturk specifically but him saying that Balkan muslims didn't assimilate to become Turks, which is rediculous.

Also your logic is distorted, in Ottoman times, Greeks spoke Greek, Bulgarians spoke Bulgarian etc etc... In a place like Macedonia a huge ethnic mix, people held onto their roots by speaking their language.
As Coris said, his family can still speak Albanian, but since they live in Turkey they also speak Turkish... would they have learnt Turkish if they lived in Albania? The Ottomans were administration in most areas, yes there was Turkish settlements, however they weren't always the majority.
In Ataturks families case in his own words: His only joy in life was to be born a Turk.

Again, lol. Only the oldest members of his family can speak Albanian (great-grandmother or something like that), neither he or anyone else in his family does so. And your logic is the distorted one, shows that you know very little about Balkan history at all, actually make that world history. Lrn2whatassimilationis.

I hate arguing with uneducated, ignorant people, therefore I invite you to educate yourself in this subject and not just parrot what you read from Albanian forums.. ok.

Oh, please. Get of your high ground and stop acting like you're the queen of England. Comments like these usually come from insecure, ignorant people just so you know. Educated people tend to behave in a very different way from you. As for the Albanian forums comment, I would like to say that I don't frequent any.