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Post by toskaliku on Jan 13, 2011 14:25:06 GMT -5
Not at all. I just find it insulting to knowledge and learning that you pass off your nonsense as real, and that there are morons in this forum that even remotely acknowledge it. I dont realize anything, since I firmly know that you are wrong in 90% of the things you say. I think you symbolize the most pathetic aspect of the internet: vague knowledge through crap like wikipedia (which I am prohibited from using at university, btw) matched by a conspiratorial and ignorant mindset. Your the emblem of an internet idiot.
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Hellenas
Amicus
Father of Gods and of men.
Posts: 432
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Post by Hellenas on Jan 13, 2011 14:34:07 GMT -5
Aadmin, Im not going to fall into your silly games. Lets just say you have a lot to learn, a lot. Its too bad that you are already too old. Beginning with that statement above. Learn some logical fallacies: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring. Your about the biggest lunatic of the forum. Not only do you not seem to have the most remote possible concept of a "life", but your one of the most pseudo-intellectuals that the internet can produce. Your not a geneticist, your not a historian, your not anything to do with the world of science. Your a lowlife webmaster of a fledgling forum. You, most likely, have no real formal education but rely on the weakest form of it: wikipedia. Please go on with your self-gratifying nonsense. I think that Aadmin searching for the truth, he is a Hellenist(many in the world are) that's why Albanians dislike him, perhaps some times he is not right but he tries, who is perfect in everything anyway. Using Wikipedia is something good I think as everybody accepts this source. Go on Aadmin, don't listen to anyone.
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Post by toskaliku on Jan 13, 2011 14:38:36 GMT -5
Yet another example of an internet retard. , indeed Aadmin, people like him are waiting for knowledge.
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Hellenas
Amicus
Father of Gods and of men.
Posts: 432
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Post by Hellenas on Jan 13, 2011 14:39:08 GMT -5
Phrygians:In antiquity, Phrygia (Greek: Φρυγία, η ) was a kingdom in the west central part of Anatolia, in what is now modern-day Turkey. The Phrygians (Phruges or Phryges) initially lived in the southern Balkans; according to Herodotus, under the name of Bryges (Briges), changing it to Phruges after their final migration to Anatolia, via the Hellespont. During the flourishing of the city-state of Troy, a part of the Bryges emigrated to Anatolia as Trojan allies or under the protection of Troy. While some consider the Phrygians part of a "Thraco-Phrygian" group, Claude Brixhe dismisses that idea, since Thracian and Dako-Thracian seem to belong to the Eastern (satem) group of Indo-European languages (see Brixhe-Panayotou, 1994, #3ff). Brixhe believes that unquestionably, however, Phrygian is most closely linked with Greek.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygians
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jan 13, 2011 14:47:07 GMT -5
For the sake of the argument, If I am a internet idiot and if you are responding to such an idiot with intense emotions (after apparently following what such an idiot has been posting) what does that make you my booksmart friend, a genius? Let me simplify it for you booksmart before I continue wasting time with a rock. This is not about me personally but about me posting stuff that belongs to works of others. So your opinion about me is irrelevant in this aspect. Now some eye candy for you foaming booksmart rock ;D E1b1b, (represents parts of Greek,Phoenician and later Illyrian populations and its most present in Kosovo, Albania and parts of Greece, especially Peloponnese (where this type originated from 4500-5000 years ago), and FYROM). www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jan 13, 2011 14:50:05 GMT -5
Unbelievable, whole Balkans / Haimos was and still is is Hellenic. OPAAAAAAAAAAAA ;D ;D ;D
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Post by ulf on Jan 13, 2011 15:28:37 GMT -5
Toskali, "be fond of learning rather than unwilling to learn."
;D ;D ;D
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Post by toskaliku on Jan 13, 2011 16:38:19 GMT -5
I would argue that I am unwilling to unlearn by not reading Aadmin's nonsense. Its not an if, you are. There is no "intense emotion" (did you see any emoticons? No? Well, then you can read my posts as rather dry and blunt. Which is my general way of talking to people. Your logic here fails epically. Its very relevant. You are posting things published by others, but all of your posts is interpretation of it. It is effectively your ignorance reading into the studies of others (btw, looking at maps, without the subsequent scientific data is not "posting the stuff others publish", its just interpreting). All of the knowledge present is filtered through your own ignorance. But Aadmin, just continue. Please. Dont let me disturb your "enlightening" posts that seek to gratify your own ego and complexes.
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Post by terroreign on Jan 13, 2011 16:46:44 GMT -5
^Toski you're just digging yourself deeper into a hole. Just stop while your dignity is (somewhat) intact...
If you don't like what Admin writes don't read it, simple as that....you being a whiny b*tch is your own fault
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Hellenas
Amicus
Father of Gods and of men.
Posts: 432
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Post by Hellenas on Jan 13, 2011 21:21:19 GMT -5
E1b1b, (represents parts of Greek,Phoenician and later Illyrian populations and its most present in Kosovo, Albania and parts of Greece, especially Peloponnese (where this type originated from 4500-5000 years ago), and FYROM). I heard somewhere once that the early-Phoenicians were Hellenes, while later-Phoenicians became Semites. Something similar to the Palestinians, they were at first Philistine-Hellenes and then they became Arabs.
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Post by Username on Jan 13, 2011 22:05:00 GMT -5
Why do some of you speak as you can actually "prove" your silly little theories??
When it comes to genetics and establishing a link between a modern day and ancient people, not even the brightest minds on earth can "prove" a relationship.. unless you can happen to bring someone who lived thousands of years ago from the grave, and test their DNA.. and good luck with that.
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Post by Username on Jan 13, 2011 22:15:02 GMT -5
You are taking the study out of context. The study only PINPOINTS the numbers for Tehran - for the whole of Iran, the number of subclades of haplogroup I is much lower. The sample size from Iranians from Tehran and Isfahan is 79 and 46 men, respectively. I don't think you need much knowledge of statistics to see that that isnt the strongest point of their experiment... although that is true for most experiments involving genetic testing.. too costly to go beyond those numbers. Anyways, if you think you can "prove" a link between Sarmatians and Serbs/Croats JUST because of that, then you sir, are delusional. And haplogroup I IS indeed native to Europe... if not Europe, many geneticists would say it wouldnt have orginated too far from Asia minor.
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Post by terroreign on Jan 13, 2011 23:40:13 GMT -5
BUZZKILL! True enough Uso, however there are various theories on the subject...some claim Ukraine as it's original stomping-grounds too. The only way we'll find out is through the studies of the future...until then we can just analyze and hypothesize our hearts out. The time of I2's expansion is also up to question as well. However, one thing we can do....is use our collective knowledge of history and culture to help fit the pieces together...because that's what we know...and contrary to what you may believe there does exist a correlation between ethnicities and their specific haplogroups
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Post by roflcopterlanding on Jan 14, 2011 2:51:49 GMT -5
I heard somewhere once that the early-Phoenicians were Hellenes, while later-Phoenicians became Semites. Something similar to the Palestinians, they were at first Philistine-Hellenes and then they became Arabs. The historical, well-known Phoenicians, i.e. the Semitic-speaking people, were never "Greek" (before Hellenistic times, that is). Ruth Edwards' monograph Kadmos the Phoenician is an interesting read for Cadmus and his "Phoenicians", and more generally the (possible) various "Phoinikes" in the east Med, which is what you might be referring to (sort of). The Aegean (but not necessarily "Greek" - maybe) connection of the Philistines is generally accepted, I think, but whoa, you skipped a few thousand years in connecting Philistines and Arabs in Palestine. I2 looks more and more like it is an additional Greek type. Is covers mainly Illyrians (Hellenophones) and perhaps Thracian (Hellenophones) as well as Dacian (Dacians being branch of Thracians). It mainly covers Illyria (hellenophones), Thrace (hellenophones) and Dacia. The simplistic correlation between cultural/linguistic groups and haplogroups should be avoided. And when was Illyria, except its very south, ever Greek-speaking to a large extent? This puts this to rest and eliminates conclusively Sarmatians which would have been a tiny ruling minority among the Slavs to begin with concerning the invading Slavs. This is a good point if the "Serbs" and "Croats" were originally indeed some sort of steppe confederation like the Avars or the Bulgars. ^I is at 34% in Iran, and present among the Sarban tribe in Afghanistan. Long live Sarmatia Krivo, comparing similar-looking words, as we argued about in the other thread, is not a good way to go about it. Is there anything else that actually connects the "Serboi" and this tribe? Unless you're now joking.
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Hellenas
Amicus
Father of Gods and of men.
Posts: 432
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Post by Hellenas on Jan 14, 2011 4:58:17 GMT -5
The historical, well-known Phoenicians, i.e. the Semitic-speaking people, were never "Greek" (before Hellenistic times, that is). Ruth Edwards' monograph Kadmos the Phoenician is an interesting read for Cadmus and his "Phoenicians", and more generally the (possible) various "Phoinikes" in the east Med, which is what you might be referring to (sort of). The Aegean (but not necessarily "Greek" - maybe) connection of the Philistines is generally accepted, I think, but whoa, you skipped a few thousand years in connecting Philistines and Arabs in Palestine. You are a very good scholar of the western historians as well, I don't trust them. For them the Mycenaeans, at first, were non-Hellenes, until they found that Linear B was Hellenic and then they said what Hellenes always said, that they were Hellenes in fact. I just said, not to you but to Aadmin, what I heard once.
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Post by roflcopterlanding on Jan 14, 2011 6:12:26 GMT -5
That's not a good attitude. After all, the decipherment came from (among others) Ventris, who wasn't sure that the language of Linear B was Greek either. There were Greek scholars of that period (Nikolaos Platon) who didn't even agree with that decipherment initially. And I'm almost sure some thought that the language of Linear B was Greek before then.
Obviously you were talking to Aadmin but since the opinion that the historical, Semitic Phoenicians were originally Greek would be somewhat unconventional, I figured I'd relate the above. No hard feelings, right?
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Jan 14, 2011 7:32:00 GMT -5
Why do some of you speak as you can actually "prove" your silly little theories?? When it comes to genetics and establishing a link between a modern day and ancient people, not even the brightest minds on earth can "prove" a relationship.. unless you can happen to bring someone who lived thousands of years ago from the grave, and test their DNA.. and good luck with that. You annoying little deconstructionist you. All we are doing is exploring possibilities you weasel. We are actually looking for solutions unlike your pathetic whiny postmodern brain which has one setting - oppose. It may be hit and miss but you seem to have a pathetic assumption that we are unable to change our minds.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jan 14, 2011 14:14:02 GMT -5
Kadmos is associated with Thebes (Greek city whose inhabitans have also been refered to as Kadmeians), Greek mythology and other Greek settlements (like Butua in present Montenegro). I fail to see anything strictly 'Phoenician' (meaning 'non-Greek') about this historical character or any conclusively Phonetician remains after him. Just because Herodutos writes something doesn't have to make every detail 100 percent correct or it could have been easily taken out of 'context' at later date. Example is Kadmos being born 1600 years before Herodotus (that would make it 2000BC) and at the same time him being the one responsible for Greeks receiving writings from so called Phoenician's (something that happened after Greek dark ages which was around 1000BC). In addition, outside of Herodutos who else mentions that Phoenicians had a ruler called Kadmos circa 1000BC who exclusively leaves behind Greek remains? This figure is nothing more then Theban ruler and is thoroughly Greek as it comes. "The fact that Hermes was worshipped in Samothrace under the name of Cadmus or Cadmilus seems to show that the Theban Cadmus was interpreted as an ancestral Theban hero corresponding to the Samothracian. Another Samothracian connection for Cadmus is offered via his wife Harmonia, who is said by Diodorus Siculus to be daughter of Zeus and Electra and of Samothracian birth.[22]". "Some modern scholars argue that Cadmus was originally an autochthonous Boeotian hero and that only in later times, did the story of a Phoenician adventurer of that name become current, to whom was ascribed the introduction of the alphabet, the invention of agriculture and working in bronze and of civilization generally.[23][24] The "Wedding of Cadmus and Harmonia" is considered as a conceptual symbolic coupling of Eastern (Phoenician) learning with Western (Greek) love of beauty." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmus#Native_Boeotian_heroAs if to convince any that doubt whether myth has kept its power, modern Greeks contend that there is little doubt that Cadmus was originally a Boeotian, that is, a Greek hero. In later times the story of a Phoenician immigrant of that name became current, to whom was ascribed the introduction of the alphabet, the invention of agriculture and working in bronze and of civilization generally. But the name itself is Greek rather than Phoenician; and the fact that Hermes was worshipped in Samothrace under the name of Cadmus or Cadmilus seems to show that the Theban Cadmus was originally an ancestral Theban hero corresponding to the Samothracian. The name may mean "order," and be used to characterize one who introduces order and civilization. www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Mythology/Cadmus.html-------- Illyrians as in original Illyrians (Ardideans) and all 'Illyrian' communities south of Daorson (todays Stolac, Hercegovina) were fully Hellenic in culture (minted coins in Greek, used Greek in communication, had kingdoms shaped in Homeric fashion etc) , language etc. Read more on this in bellow link illyriancommunities.illyria.net/
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Post by terroreign on Jan 14, 2011 14:50:40 GMT -5
Krivo, comparing similar-looking words, as we argued about in the other thread, is not a good way to go about it. Is there anything else that actually connects the "Serboi" and this tribe? Unless you're now joking. Not exactly...."Srb" has important meaning in both Sanskrit and Iranic languages. And the Sarbani believed themselves to be descendants of the Sarmatians/Scythians...so Its not just wishful thinking
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Post by roflcopterlanding on Jan 14, 2011 16:02:53 GMT -5
Admin, but that article doesn't exactly speak of a "hellenization of the whole of Illyria". The "Land of the Lyra" page on the other hand is not that good, to put it mildly. Btw, I dig your use of the Albanian map that extends Illyria down to Aetolia and Thessaly, you're doing us real damage here, man, and promoting the Albos! What kind of philhellene are you?
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