rex362
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Post by rex362 on Mar 12, 2008 18:23:43 GMT -5
time to bury this one deep deep in the ground ....
yugo was a nice guy but couldn't live forever ...too bad uh ?
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 12, 2008 23:44:47 GMT -5
While Illyria subforum is based on what .. live and kicking ethnonym and state ... oh wait that was over 2000 years ago but then again that is what it refers to - history.
Same story with Yugoslavia, it refers to Yugoslavian history. (also there are still many people who find the memory pleasant).
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Post by ilirdardani on Mar 13, 2008 9:31:46 GMT -5
90 years of history. lol
Big whoop
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 13, 2008 22:48:26 GMT -5
Like the case with Albania is much different.
State created for the first time in early 20 century with a newly forged Albanian identity (out of previously mainly tribal or religious identities) that has it modern roots in late 19 century.
Same with Yugoslavia except Yugoslavia wasn't forced as a new identity on the population whose state histories stretch back to 1000 years (Dioclea, Croatia, Rascia, Bosnia etc) unlike that of Albanians which first forged a state in early 20th century.
Yugoslavia was a natural step forward (which is likely to repeat itself some time in the future with possibly adding Bulgaria within in) only it was not implemented properly.
The basic idea is same as previous unification of Germany and Italy in 1870s where previously different state identities united to forge a new German and a new Italian identity and super state that would be based on common language more then anything else (irregardless of the fact that Prussians were protestants and Bavarians were Catholics thus ignoring such differences). Neither German nor Italian unification (Corsica is still French) is fully complete. German unification is not fully finished yet either as Austria is still outside it (Hitler tried to 'remedy' that).
Also Yugoslavian history is a history of a victor for much of 20th century and one of a major actor in creating a non-alignment movement that helped end colonialism and imperialism in much of third world in post ww2 period (hence why the west was so interested in its dissolution as soon as USSR become past tense).
History often repeats itself for a reason as past mistakes were either not a lesson enough or in an attempt to remedy them.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Mar 14, 2008 0:32:58 GMT -5
I propose to also add the Roman Empire Forum and Byzantine Forum...
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Post by ilirdardani on Mar 14, 2008 10:08:55 GMT -5
Like the case with Albania is much different. State created for the first time in early 20 century with a newly forged Albanian identity (out of previously mainly tribal or religious identities) that has it modern roots in late 19 century. Same with Yugoslavia except Yugoslavia wasn't forced as a new identity on the population whose state histories stretch back to 1000 years (Dioclea, Croatia, Rascia, Bosnia etc) unlike that of Albanians which first forged a state in early 20th century. Yugoslavia was a natural step forward (which is likely to repeat itself some time in the future with possibly adding Bulgaria within in) only it was not implemented properly. The basic idea is same as previous unification of Germany and Italy in 1870s where previously different state identities united to forge a new German and a new Italian identity and super state that would be based on common language more then anything else (irregardless of the fact that Prussians were protestants and Bavarians were Catholics thus ignoring such differences). Neither German nor Italian unification (Corsica is still French) is fully complete. German unification is not fully finished yet either as Austria is still outside it (Hitler tried to 'remedy' that). Also Yugoslavian history is a history of a victor for much of 20th century and one of a major actor in creating a non-alignment movement that helped end colonialism and imperialism in much of third world in post ww2 period (hence why the west was so interested in its dissolution as soon as USSR become past tense). History often repeats itself for a reason as past mistakes were either not a lesson enough or in an attempt to remedy them. Thats the "history" in your eyes. And in the same eyes, the Serbians of today are the Illyrians and the Albanians came from another planet. Yeah buddy, take the blind out of your eyes then talk to me again. You made an Illyrian board which has nothing to do with Illyricism and only with Slavisicm. Talk about stealing someone elses history.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 14, 2008 11:12:18 GMT -5
You made an Illyrian board which has nothing to do with Illyricism and only with Slavisicm. Talk about stealing someone elses history. It was southern Slavs that were first using the term Illyrian at the time when Albanians had no clue of its existence. In fact that first name for Yugoslavism was Illyrism, more date bellow; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_movementAlbanians remain an enigma. They reside in the region that in ancient times (up to 1000 years ago) was fully Hellenistic in culture and language and appear to have some linguistic similarities with Romanian which might point to Dacian influence. Illyrians in much of Illyricum were first Romanized (Vlachs) and later slavized (descendants are todays Serbs, Bosniaks and Croats who are mainly descendants of slavized local Vlachs). Albanians are most likely associated with this story bellow (link) (as no other story makes sense and illyrian one least of all) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpians
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rex362
Senior Moderator
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Post by rex362 on Mar 14, 2008 11:30:35 GMT -5
lets just call it a good and bad dream ....and throw it in "History Etc" section ....
I remember Yugo very well myself ...1969-1970 first time for me ...we came through germany by car ...an ugly orangy-brown Muskvich with a roof luggage rack ... our first stop was Lubjana...what a great city ..thought I never left Germany type of thingy ....spent 1 week there.... it fooled me ...after a few days of driving I ended up in year 1762 ;D ;D ;D ;D in Macedonia
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Post by ilirdardani on Mar 14, 2008 12:38:06 GMT -5
You made an Illyrian board which has nothing to do with Illyricism and only with Slavisicm. Talk about stealing someone elses history. It was southern Slavs that were first using the term Illyrian at the time when Albanians had no clue of its existence. In fact that first name for Yugoslavism was Illyrism, more date bellow; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_movementAlbanians remain an enigma. They reside in the region that in ancient times (up to 1000 years ago) was fully Hellenistic in culture and language and appear to have some linguistic similarities with Romanian which might point to Dacian influence. Illyrians in much of Illyricum were first Romanized (Vlachs) and later slavized (descendants are todays Serbs, Bosniaks and Croats who are mainly descendants of slavized local Vlachs). Albanians are most likely associated with this story bellow (link) (as no other story makes sense and illyrian one least of all) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarpiansI don't read wikipedia, which I'm sure you know, anyone can edit to their personal preferences. Back to history, the Serbians are known to come to the Balkans in the 6th century and on, and are tied to the Slavic populations like the Russians for example (which are their closest ancestors). The Serbs have nothing that ties them to the Illyrians, their (the Serbs) language is a Slavic language, tied to other Slav languages (like Russian, etc). Albanians on the other hand cannot be tied to any population, or language on earth. We are the only descendats of the Illyrians which the name Illir itself tells you its an albanian name and word. You cannot explain it Greek, or Slav, or German, or Chinese. That is a fact. Again back to what I said, you have created this board to let everyone else know your opinion, but that alone doesn't make it a fact, just because you want to.
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Post by Novus Dis on Mar 16, 2008 17:21:02 GMT -5
Well if Illyrians are related to Hellenics then yes, Serbs do in fact have a lot to do with the Illyrians. When Serbia was under the control and influence of Byzantine and when Greece was under the control and influence of Czar Dusan, Serbs and Greeks shared culture, ideas, beliefs and intermarried.
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rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
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Post by rex362 on Mar 18, 2008 17:35:02 GMT -5
shared .....sh!t they taught you how to read and how /who to worship bcs you liked burning ....like lately ...
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Post by Novus Dis on Mar 18, 2008 19:27:05 GMT -5
shared .....sh!t they taught you how to read and how /who to worship bcs you liked burning ....like lately ... Pitiful remarks from a lowly person such as yourself should be expected though you always amaze me with your idiocy.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Mar 18, 2008 22:03:15 GMT -5
Yugoslavia, as an idea is a wonderful thing, and nobody has the right to put it down, nor does anyone have the right to erase it from our history.
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Mar 19, 2008 19:08:21 GMT -5
^^ its gone forever ... let it go. PROKLETA BILA ....
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niquetamere
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Post by niquetamere on Mar 19, 2008 19:52:25 GMT -5
Never. Yugoslavia will live on!
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Mar 20, 2008 13:45:21 GMT -5
Yugoslavia will come back, you'll see. Eventually, once the EU becomes an actual nation (Federation), Yugoslavia will come back. It's just that some people choose to ignore that fact, but whatever.
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Anthologic
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Post by Anthologic on Mar 20, 2008 21:07:14 GMT -5
Do albanians hate Yugoslavia because when it existed Albania was quite possibly the worst place on Earth?
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Post by radovic on Mar 20, 2008 21:26:53 GMT -5
Yugoslavia will come back, you'll see. Eventually, once the EU becomes an actual nation (Federation), Yugoslavia will come back. It's just that some people choose to ignore that fact, but whatever. If the EU actually incorporates Serbia and the EU continues disregarding the democratic will of Europeans by not holding European wide referendums on the EU becoming more of a federation. Yes. The only way it could become possible is if a "Multi-speed Europe" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Europe) is the form the EU takes.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Mar 20, 2008 21:29:10 GMT -5
Albania wasn't the worst place on earth!!! As a matter of fact, 'till the 70's it was better than Greece and Italy. Then Hoxha made the first mistake and it followed...the worst years were: '80-'90!
Super-worst: '90-2000
worst so-so-...now...
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 20, 2008 23:48:18 GMT -5
Yugoslav chapter is far from finished in my opinion as it is illogical to cease the idea when its implementation benefits far more the members then it harms them. It is clearly visible that the independence each one gained is on paper as they will (as they are striving to join in) and have in effect became puppets of the Germany/France's EU (also EU is bound to stop existing as it several larger states plain dominate smaller ones). Next time I believe that the name should be Illyria (which is the first name of the Yugoslav movement until using Illyrian name as self-identification among southern Slavs was outlawed by Austro-Hungarian state in fear of having southern Slavs acquire one identity which would make them stronger). Genetics have conclusively proven that majority of Yugoslavs are the true descendants of Illyrians (which first became mainly romanized and then slavized) as can be seen in bellow link (section that refers to Origins of Albanians in my 9th reply there). illyria.proboards19.com/index.cgi?board=crnagoramontenegro&action=display&thread=1205961430Further apart from name Illyria (which can also be referred to as Yugoslavia) also new Illyrian ethnic identity should be forged and fully adapted over time by all Slovenes, Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks, Montenegrins and SlavMacedonians. Bulgarians can over time adapt name of Thracians and Thrace as this is the actual origin of that population only slavized. New fused culture would be referred to as Yugoslavia (or and Illyria & Thrace). Certainly this Yugoslav thing is far from over and we have just witnessed one or two chapters of that story. It is a next step in ethnic evolution of this region sort of speak and unified state will be nothing to sneeze at (further, down the line should perhaps unite with Greece and Romania and will make a super state that no country in Europe or elsewhere will be able to dictate to). One thing is for sure, divided we are on each others throats and weak (and , needless to say, controlled by outsiders) versus united when we are force to be reconed with and such was the case since antiquity (military genious of Alexander the Great incorporated various ancient Balkanian/Haimian elements in his forces from Thrace, Illyria and Greece). Choice is really simple, do we wipe each other out over time or unite and become a superstate that not only will not take dicates from others but can affort this time to make them to others (if necessary).
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