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Post by nilofer on Apr 4, 2011 8:27:55 GMT -5
I was wondering how far you guys can trace your origins and how you are aware of those origins? Like, did you only find out about them because you investigated your family history yourself , or is it more known within your family circle what your history(histories is/are? What different origins do you even have? What do you consider yourself?
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 4, 2011 8:53:08 GMT -5
Nice thread.. It isn't easy for me to trace my origins as where my dad is from the local records office was burnt down in the 1970's along with all the records However I was lucky to know my grandparents and they gave me lots of info on my origins. According to my paternal grandmother, her family are an interesting mix. Her father was a Yoruk Turk most probably pagan, from the Taurus mountains that settled in Adana hundreds of years ago and lost all link with mountain and village life. Her mother side were Zaza and Alevi, in fact her great Grandfather many generations back was a Shiekh. There is debate about the Zaza's in Turkey and it really draws my interest, some say they are the original Oguz Turks as they have so many of their traditions, others say they are an Iranian people, however they speak a language which is not intelligible by Iranian or Kurdish people. Whichever it is, the Zaza are a very modern people even hundreds of years ago known to be extremely liberal in their thoughts and closer to Alevism/Sufism than traditional Islam. Most Zaza that I have met in Turkey just just say we are Zaza. Whenever I question whether there is any Kurdish mix they refuse and say we are the Zaza, which doesn't help as they are very closed in there circle, they don't marry outside of Zaza's which makes my family quite special since they mixed. On my Paternal grandfathers side again his mother side is a Yoruk Turk again from the Taurus mountains, probably pagan, His fathers side however seem to have roots in Egypt, what we don't know is whether they were the Turkish Ottomans in Egypt or whether they were Egyptians. I assume they were Egyptians just because many people have told me I look Egyptian from my Dark eyes and the shape of them, which isn't very Turkish in shape or colour. On my mums side we are just a huge mix, her fathers family were from Bulgaria, again Ottomans but settled in Cyprus in the early 1500's and had very close Ottoman links. The Pashas would always stay with my family it is said. Her fathers, fathers side were a family of Judges from Konya in Turkey. Her mothers fathers, side seem to have Greek roots from Istanbul again they traveled to Cyprus in the early 1500's and her mothers side came from Antalya in Turkey. What is interesting is that my family look very different to any other Turkish people I have met from Cyprus. In addition I am sure there is more of a mix because my grandfather had striking green eyes and afro hair. which means there may have been perhaps an arabic ancestor? since in Cyprus there were many Egyptians and Maronites. I can't go beyond the 1500's in Cyprus nor delve too deep into my fathers side due to the records being lost. I have been told I look like all sorts of different races. I got interested in my roots actually after using this forum, I realized that most Turks are just brainwashed into believing they are just "Turks" whereas in reality, its just a huge melting pot in Turkey. What do I consider myself? Human. I don't particularly feel associated to any of my roots, I have interest in Yoruks and Zaza's there traditions are truly different to many others I know. Shamanism was something I delved into but later on felt it was outdated, and made me uncomfortable since I do certainly have certain abilities but wish for them to just lay still. I do know my family were almost always living in Towns and cities, that they always had businesses to run, that the women were mostly treated equal to the men, education was very important, religion was not a very important aspect yet we have sheikhs so.... I don't know a huge mix is what I am.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Apr 6, 2011 17:40:47 GMT -5
Her mother side were Zaza and Alevi, Zaza... are you related with Joe Zaza?
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Post by nilofer on Apr 7, 2011 6:55:03 GMT -5
Very interesting read, Desire . I wish I knew that much about my origins, too. I don't really know what my ancestors did for a living, or their exact history, I only really know the ethnicities from my great great great grandparents on my dad's side, and from my great great great great grandparents on my mum's side. It's hard to get to know more when you don't live in the part of the world your family originates from...on my trips there I've found out a lot of things, but it's been too short a time to find more things out...
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Post by mystery on Apr 9, 2011 14:14:25 GMT -5
I know our Golden modern greeks have a large chunck of Alvanos, slav and Turk in them.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Apr 11, 2011 5:29:58 GMT -5
I was wondering how far you guys can trace your origins and how you are aware of those origins? Like, did you only find out about them because you investigated your family history yourself , or is it more known within your family circle what your history(histories is/are? What different origins do you even have? What do you consider yourself? My Family background is Hungarian but I mostly have grown up and lived in Australia. I am quite interested in tracing my family origins as far back as I can, I really love to delve and know more and more about these type of things but I can only get a certain amount of information from my family, I mean they only seem to know a certain amount of stories that were passed down to them, apparently there was some other parts of the family that kept family trees but these people have either died out or lost contact with us I was able to see a family tree from my mothers side when i was maybe 11 but I dont remember too much, other than there was some German ancestry and supposedly some distant spanish jew ancestry. On my fathers side there is a story that the paternal family name line were builders from Italy that migrated to Hungary in the 17th century but interestingly that there name was originally Armenian and that their background was originally Armenian and they must have moved to Italy at some time and then later to Hungary, that is a bit interesting for me as it turned out that I married an Armenian girl but in all seriousness their is no Italian or Armenian identity feeling these are just distant elements. Other family names within the family on all sides are typically Magyar. There were parts of the family that lived in Hungarian Transylvania my Grandfather was born there, my other Grandfather was born in Munkacsy which now it belongs to the Ukraine and is called Munkacevo. Another family story is that on the paternal line we were closely asscociated with the Transylvanian Rackozi family that were fighting the Hapsburgs and at one stage the Rackoszi's fled to Turkey then later returned to Hungary to continue the fight the story is that our family travelled with them to Turkey and back. I dont know too much about our origins other than these stories and mostly I have heard about certain ancestors had certain occupations or that we had supposedly some blue blood, and some fairly well educated people on both sides , my Great Grandmother was a school head mistress who apparently spoke 4 or 5 languages, her Grandfather was a lawyer, there were some land and farm owners, there were people that had high up positions for the railway etc. I feel in some ways very connected to my Hungarian background its part of me to an extent but otherwise also I feel very much an individual or just a human being , i have grown up in Australia i can say i am connected to this country its a great place, although I wouldnt see myself as a typical oi oi oi Ausssi.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Apr 11, 2011 12:46:48 GMT -5
I know our Golden modern greeks have a large chunck of Alvanos, slav and Turk in them.
Alvanos are nothing more then linguistic group fused recently (centuries earlier) from populations that were all initially Hellenic speaking (southern illyrians or epirotes) thus Hellenic whose speech was influenced by Vlachs, Normans, Slavs and Turks. Slavs left practically no noticeable genetic/anthropological imprint in Balkans outside of Pannonia. Turanids Turkics are basically nonexistent in Balkans and a minuscule minority in Turkey itself (even genetically). Modern Greeks could not have been derived from anyone but natives thus ancient Greeks (genetics and anthropology concurs).
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Post by gjakova on Apr 11, 2011 18:21:48 GMT -5
i have to say that my origin isn't so fascinating like some of you here. i'm born in gjakova(kosova) my family is the founder of this city.i guess we little mixed.My father is also born there so is my mother(but she is also half from peja).I'm typicall balkanite like i have green eyes and brown hair,i'm tall.The people of my city resemble northern albanians and i guess montes the most.I know i have a bit boring origine.But hell yeah i'm proud of it.
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Post by jonleka on Apr 11, 2011 19:10:49 GMT -5
Southern Illyrians dont you think there is a reason why historians called them southern Illyrians and not Greek of Hellenes.
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Post by coris on Apr 19, 2011 12:39:00 GMT -5
Well my story is a little complicated. I am turkish and my family came to Turkey in 1912 as written in the record office. My paternal side is albanian and my maternal side is bit more mixed. My father's family is kinda complete albanians that fit every stereotype turks give to albanians:D Some are funny some are meaningless but most of the time I get asked around: "are you a muhacir?"(balkan immigrant) or when a get angry and start screaming people say "careful he is albanian:P" They came from kolonje, telepene and ioannina as far as a know. They came to turkey without a word of turkish and settled in istanbul. My mother's family is half albanian, coming from permet, and half something( to be honest i cannot find this out... my mother's paternal side used to live in thesseloniki, could speak greek but apparently they came to turkey after its conquest?)
However, there are some real blanks here... First of, it is clear that my father's ancestors were albanian, no doubt about that but why did they choose to come to Turkey? I know there was the 2nd Balkan war going but they chose to come to Turkey? seriosly why? They had not attachments to turkey since they were turkish or turkish speakers. Also, my mother's ancestors are kinda unclear. The same problem is present with the albanian ancestors. Why did they left permet and came to turkey? Also, my greek speaking ancestor coming to turkey when greece took over the city? Mysterious indeed:P... When both families came to Turkey, they slowly got a little assimilited over the years, my mother's family more so. I guess it was the homogenous situation that kept my father's family cling on to their origins more than my mother's family. My paternal family and I are still proud to say we are albanians where as my mother says that she is turkish whose family came from the balkan a looong time ago. My grandfather and my grandmom can still speak fluent albanian to this day(I kinda wanna see them thrown into an albanian community for several day, just to see how they fare speaking pre 1912 albanian:D) Well this is my family's story...
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Apr 19, 2011 14:17:32 GMT -5
However, there are some real blanks here... First of, it is clear that my father's ancestors were albanian, no doubt about that but why did they choose to come to Turkey? I know there was the 2nd Balkan war going but they chose to come to Turkey? seriosly why? They had not attachments to turkey since they were turkish or turkish speakers. . Because being muslim back then within the Ottoman Empire, made you automatically an Ottoman a Turk(as people called before the politically "correct" terminology came into fashion...). Muslims, be them Albanian, Bosnak, Pomak, Turkokretan etc, saw themselves primary as non-reayas , and if that meant that this is against people with the same origin, language, customs etc wasn't a big deal... Albos were lucky not to have borders near Turkey's(as they ended after the Balkan Wars) because , if it wan't the case then the whole Arnavutluk would be proud Turkish citizens today.... my family history isn't that complicated...Peloponnesos x 4....
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Post by coris on Apr 19, 2011 14:35:54 GMT -5
However, there are some real blanks here... First of, it is clear that my father's ancestors were albanian, no doubt about that but why did they choose to come to Turkey? I know there was the 2nd Balkan war going but they chose to come to Turkey? seriosly why? They had not attachments to turkey since they were turkish or turkish speakers. . Because being muslim back then within the Ottoman Empire, made you automatically an Ottoman a Turk(as people called before the politically "correct" terminology came into fashion...). Muslims, be them Albanian, Bosnak, Pomak, Turkokretan etc, saw themselves primary as non-reayas , and if that meant that this is against people with the same origin, language, customs etc wasn't a big deal... Albos were lucky not to have borders near Turkey's(as they ended after the Balkan Wars) because , if it wan't the case then the whole Arnavutluk would be proud Turkish citizens today.... my family history isn't that complicated...Peloponnesos x 4.... well that's what i don't understand. I think that they may not have been muslims back then. My grandmother still paint eggs on easter and they, although not openly, still celebrate easter and christmas.
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Post by jonleka on Apr 19, 2011 16:27:58 GMT -5
Coris a lot of Albanian that converted just did so for the benefits but in hearts were still christians so maybe that explains your family traditions. Greece and Yougoslavia had treaties with Turkey for popullation exchange that they kicked out a lot of Albanians and keep in mind they did not care if they were muslim or christian.
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Post by uz on Apr 19, 2011 17:00:45 GMT -5
did the kla care whether their victims were Muslim christian....did they care whether they were Albania for that matter? Of couse not . .. You still sleeping pal.
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Post by gjakova on Apr 19, 2011 17:27:50 GMT -5
lol did the serbs care when they raped women,children and killed they father before their eyes.here in belgium lives a kosova albanian who saw his father and brothers their throat slized by serbs.and did they care when they burnt streets full of houses down if people where still in their houses.did they care what my parents with their very young children and one baby had to go through when trying to get to safe place here in the west.Is this enough or do i have to continue and plz spare me the lies about kla bcs what they deed can't at all be compared with what serbforces did to us.
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Post by uz on Apr 19, 2011 18:55:00 GMT -5
^ no one cares what you think you are. These segregated ideals you propose will bring your own downfall. We need unity in the balkans not barbarian escapadese
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Post by jonleka on Apr 19, 2011 19:30:30 GMT -5
heheheh Uze guze do you have to shit in every thread. I just tried to excplain to coris that even christians had to go to Turkey and you jumpt and brought KLA into this, but remember one thing with every action there is a reaction. Spare us the bullshit you get form Serb propaganda will you.
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Post by jonleka on Apr 19, 2011 19:39:45 GMT -5
Guze Milosevic had few roten Albanians working for him.
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Post by jonleka on Apr 19, 2011 19:44:24 GMT -5
Greece and Yougo signed treaties for population exchange that ment Turks going back to their homeland get it.
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Post by hellboy87 on Apr 24, 2011 21:11:46 GMT -5
Well my story is a little complicated. I am turkish and my family came to Turkey in 1912 as written in the record office. My paternal side is albanian and my maternal side is bit more mixed. My father's family is kinda complete albanians that fit every stereotype turks give to albanians:D Some are funny some are meaningless but most of the time I get asked around: "are you a muhacir?"(balkan immigrant) or when a get angry and start screaming people say "careful he is albanian:P" They came from kolonje, telepene and ioannina as far as a know. They came to turkey without a word of turkish and settled in istanbul. My mother's family is half albanian, coming from permet, and half something( to be honest i cannot find this out... my mother's paternal side used to live in thesseloniki, could speak greek but apparently they came to turkey after its conquest?) However, there are some real blanks here... First of, it is clear that my father's ancestors were albanian, no doubt about that but why did they choose to come to Turkey? I know there was the 2nd Balkan war going but they chose to come to Turkey? seriosly why? They had not attachments to turkey since they were turkish or turkish speakers. Also, my mother's ancestors are kinda unclear. The same problem is present with the albanian ancestors. Why did they left permet and came to turkey? Also, my greek speaking ancestor coming to turkey when greece took over the city? Mysterious indeed:P... When both families came to Turkey, they slowly got a little assimilited over the years, my mother's family more so. I guess it was the homogenous situation that kept my father's family cling on to their origins more than my mother's family. My paternal family and I are still proud to say we are albanians where as my mother says that she is turkish whose family came from the balkan a looong time ago. My grandfather and my grandmom can still speak fluent albanian to this day(I kinda wanna see them thrown into an albanian community for several day, just to see how they fare speaking pre 1912 albanian:D) Well this is my family's story... Do you know when did your mother's paternal family came to Turkey? Maybe they could speak Greek because they were Greeks? Ever thought about that? I'm really suprised that you don't know why your father's family chose Turkey.Surely it has something to do with the fact that Turkey was Albania's former ruler? Were your ancestors religious?
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