Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 7, 2012 13:30:47 GMT -5
^^^^ ever been to turkey?
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 7, 2012 13:47:18 GMT -5
yes many times. dont play the card that they are peaceful and kind people. they are now, but back then the turks or at least the ruling elite wanted possessions and they got them.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 7, 2012 14:12:11 GMT -5
^^^ People do not change that easily. Nations do not change that easily. Do not play the "now they try to become western-civilized" card, cause you know it sucks.
In fact i think that most basis for the ottoman rule in the balkans (at least greece) was comprised of Serbs.
The presence of bosniak-muslim-slavic surnames in my territory kinda attests to that...
Taking it one step further, i would support that many of the slavic toponyms of Greece were created *AFTER* 1453..... (if that date ever meant smth).
One thing is for sure, that those slavic toponyms changed to greek only after the FALL of the ottoman empire....
wow, too many "coincidence" to ignore, right?
those ottomans were not exactly anti-slav right?
Also, i know of places in makedoni/serbia (Edesa-Vodena/Leskovac) which were fully industrialized during ottoman rule and fell to decay after the "liberation"....
I think most of the things we know about the ottoman era are wrong. (Our/your history is written by British or Russians, that's why)
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punisher
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Post by punisher on Jan 7, 2012 14:43:23 GMT -5
ottomans were the worst for albanians,they didn't allow anything albanian in the ottoman empire
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 7, 2012 15:34:59 GMT -5
Pyrro the fact that you link industrialization with the Ottomans shows a vast ignorance. The Ottomans did not support the Serbs, the Bulgarians and the Greeks: they tolerated them (as in not killed us all or assimilated us forcefully), because someone had to pay bigger taxes than the ordinary Turk. I prefer direct sources from the times and the Bulgarian ones indicate that the Bulgarians hated the Turks with passion, that they were deffinately not equal to the Turks and that they never saw the Ottoman empire as their state. All your speculations are amuzing but as everything with you: its more sciencefiction than history.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 7, 2012 18:49:58 GMT -5
"novi, sorry but your "logic" doesnt seem logical to me to put it mildly. First we discuss Marco and while we discussing it you switch to Ioan Assen. Because Pyrro thinks I m "mat" I m answering to you about Ioan Assen and now you switch once again to another period. Obviouslly you try to switch the themes because the conversation doesnt go the way you want it (it will happen always because your "teories" are absolutely flawed). Stick to one thing."
Sorry buddy there is nothing flawed in my conversation with you, you give me a source, fine, however l show you a source prior to yours and you show me a map of Assen, fine, then l ask you to explain resettlement of peoples from south balkans to asia minor
PS Could that source be just an error (Bulgaroru Rex)? thats what l'm trying to establish here Jovan-e (Ioan)
PS 2 We've finally have come to the conclusion that Marko is Serb, after 5 years, now, hopefully in the next 5 years you'll admit, like Rhezus, the Vardarians are/were Serbs too
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Post by Moe Lester on Jan 7, 2012 22:24:51 GMT -5
The presence of bosniak-muslim-slavic surnames in my territory kinda attests to that... Couldn't you just say "Bosniak"? I mean, Bosniaks are largely Muslim and Slavic, so by saying Bosniak, you're already saying "Bosniak-Muslim-Slavic". Just saying.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 8, 2012 1:03:43 GMT -5
Pyrro the fact that you link industrialization with the Ottomans shows a vast ignorance. The Ottomans did not support the Serbs, the Bulgarians and the Greeks: they tolerated them (as in not killed us all or assimilated us forcefully), because someone had to pay bigger taxes than the ordinary Turk. I prefer direct sources from the times and the Bulgarian ones indicate that the Bulgarians hated the Turks with passion, that they were deffinately not equal to the Turks and that they never saw the Ottoman empire as their state. All your speculations are amuzing but as everything with you: its more sciencefiction than history. google for the leskovac industry . google for vodena/edesa industry. and YEAH I link industrialization with the ottomans.... after the ottomans the south died..... i do not know the case for bulgaria, and i do not care. cheers...
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 8, 2012 1:04:42 GMT -5
"novi, sorry but your "logic" doesnt seem logical to me to put it mildly. First we discuss Marco and while we discussing it you switch to Ioan Assen. Because Pyrro thinks I m "mat" I m answering to you about Ioan Assen and now you switch once again to another period. Obviouslly you try to switch the themes because the conversation doesnt go the way you want it (it will happen always because your "teories" are absolutely flawed). Stick to one thing." Sorry buddy there is nothing flawed in my conversation with you, you give me a source, fine, however l show you a source prior to yours and you show me a map of Assen, fine, then l ask you to explain resettlement of peoples from south balkans to asia minor PS Could that source be just an error (Bulgaroru Rex)? thats what l'm trying to establish here Jovan-e (Ioan) PS 2 We've finally have come to the conclusion that Marko is Serb, after 5 years, now, hopefully in the next 5 years you'll admit, like Rhezus, the Vardarians are/were Serbs too nice progression bro, i doubt the mongol will admit anything.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 8, 2012 1:42:45 GMT -5
PS Could that source be just an error (Bulgaroru Rex)? thats what l'm trying to establish here Jovan-e (Ioan) no, he was called Bulgarian king sometimes by foreign people, because although he was a Serb and he had Serbian selfidentification obviouslly, but he did rule over territories populated by Bulgarians. i have always said that Marco is a Serb, I never ever said he was ethnic Bulgarian (as the majority of the people in Macedonia at that time). I ll never admit a lie though: that the Macedonians were ever Serbs. I ve said that there is small Serbian minority on the north and it has existed in medievil times but it was never a significant part of the population. The main groups of the Macedonians (as a regional identificator) always consisted of Greeks in the south and Bulgarians in the North. Presenday Macedonians (in ethnic sense) descend from Bulgarians, not Serbs. Thats the reality and you can not change it.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 8, 2012 3:22:52 GMT -5
no, he was called Bulgarian king sometimes by foreign people, because although he was a Serb and he had Serbian selfidentification obviouslly, but he did rule over territories populated by Bulgarians. LMAO, lemme get this straight : when a serbian king rules over bulgarians then he is bulgarian when a bulgarian king rules over slavs then they are bulgarians. Which in short is equivalent to : one should try really hard in order to NOT be a bulgarian... LMAO man, just LMAO
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 8, 2012 4:22:24 GMT -5
i never said he was bulgarian, he clearly was a serb. he was called by others bulgarian king, because he ruled over bulgarians.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 8, 2012 4:36:26 GMT -5
"LMAO, lemme get this straight : when a serbian king rules over bulgarians then he is bulgarian when a bulgarian king rules over slavs then they are bulgarians.
Which in short is equivalent to : one should try really hard in order to NOT be a bulgarian...
LMAO man, just LMAO"
Pyrro, what you said above is TYPICAL of Bulgars.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 8, 2012 4:42:06 GMT -5
"I ve said that there is small Serbian minority on the north and it has existed in medievil times but it was never a significant part of the population. The main groups of the Macedonians (as a regional identificator) always consisted of Greeks in the south and Bulgarians in the North. Presenday Macedonians (in ethnic sense) descend from Bulgarians, not Serbs."
Aha, sure Ioan, whatever you believe. Really fascinating to note the alien culture of the Vardarians to the Bulgars. Vardarian culture is too Serbian, they even have the GUSLE as well, typical of Serbian tribes.
PS They even were naming their MALE children SRBIN after their Bulgarian origin, how convenient Jovane LMAO
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 8, 2012 4:47:31 GMT -5
From a Vardarian source Ioan, read:
Macedonian Toponyms in Albania
Risto StefovJanuary 11, 2010
"Patrons such as these can also be found in Western Debar Region. For example in the village Halajbegovtsi we find registered the names "Milosh, Petro, Sorbin, Giorgio, Neveno". In the village Blato we find "Bozho" and others. Similar situations exist in the villages Konjari and Balantsi in the south part of Debar Region. Patrons named "Jadro, Bogdan, Volkush, Torpko" and others also existed in Golo Brdo in the village Bilishta. These villages are now all considered to be Albanian".
By Dr. Kosta Peev
Translated and edited by Risto Stefov
PS Do you see the name BULGAR highlighted above?
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 8, 2012 5:26:14 GMT -5
the fact that some macedonian bulgarians named their children with the male name sOrbin doesnt mean they are Serbs. You should study ELEMENTARY logic.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 8, 2012 6:30:23 GMT -5
^^^ LOL
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Post by Moe Lester on Jan 8, 2012 8:39:06 GMT -5
Are you guys that stupid!? He said Marko was sometimes referred to as a "Bulgarian king" in history because he ruled over Bulgarians, he never said Marko was a Bulgarian king. If you have a problem, take it up with historians and historical figures.
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elemag
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Post by elemag on Jan 8, 2012 8:46:53 GMT -5
Not both of them. Pazar has the intelligence of a brick and the sense of humour of a lemon. Pyrro is not stupid but he avoids the truth in every way possible in order not to reveal how dumb his friend Pazar is.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 8, 2012 8:49:38 GMT -5
moe, there is no use. novi is especially bad case, he doesnt care what others say, he has this propaganda in his mind that totally brainwashed him.
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