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Post by pagane on Mar 5, 2008 7:55:10 GMT -5
What beginning (I guess this is the word) do you mean? Have you made a small effort to go briefly through the history of Kosovo? And I am not interested in the opinion of someone like Edvin Sugarev. He is crazy.
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Mar 5, 2008 10:14:45 GMT -5
Former ambassadors criticised on March 5 2008 Bulgaria's wavering position on recognising Kosovo's independence from Belgrade. Although Foreign Minister Ivailo Kalfin said that he would recommend the Government to recognise Kosovo's secession after the province declared its independence on February 17, Bulgaria's ruling coalition has avoided initiating Parliament debates on adopting a motion in that sense. Opposition parties have criticised Bulgaria's ambiguous stance and former ambassadors from Bulgaria's Foreign Policy Association, who said that the "wait and see" tactic adopted by the Cabinet was detrimental in the long run. "Bulgaria's official foreign policy is not making a good investment in its future," association chairman and former ambassador to Japan and Philippines, Petar Andonov, told reporters at a news conference. Bulgaria's declared goals of stability in the region meant that the Government should recognise Kosovo, he added. Former ambassadors to Balkan countries were a lot more critical, however. The current policy resembled the communist-era habit of laying low when facing the unknown, the former ambassador to Macedonia, Angel Dimitrov said. "Ambiguity can be interpreted as either double standards or indecisiveness," he added. And the former ambassador to Serbia and Montenegro, Bobi Bobev, berated the Cabinet of Prime Minister Sergei Stanishev for not taking a more active role in finding a solution. "Bulgaria is still behaving as a European Union candidate country, rather than a member state, referring to the EU in the third person," he said. A total of 24 countries have already recognised Kosovo, most recently The Netherlands and Sweden on March 4, and five more have launched recognition procedures, according to kosovothanksyou.com website, which is tracking the process. Another 24 countries, Bulgaria among them, are expected to follow suit. www.sofiaecho.com/article/former-ambassadors-slam-bulgaria-on-kosovo-stance/id_27908/catid_68
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Mar 5, 2008 16:48:21 GMT -5
That begining... Wonder why Serbs are minority in the areas, mainly populated by ethnic Albanians?? The earliest inhabitants of Kosovo were called Illyrians by both Greeks and Romans. Albanians are the direct descendants of these Illyrians. Their language became known as Albanian and their culture became allied with Byzantium after the breakup of the Catholic Church into Eastern and western branches in 1054. Slavs crossed the Danube and moved into the Balkans by the 6th century and the Serbian dynasty lasted there for aprox. 200 years 1180 to 1389 . However in 1389, in the famous Battle of Kosovo Polje, the Serbs and their allies were defeated by the Ottoman Turks and shortly Kosovo became part of the Ottoman Empire. In the late 17th century Serbs left Kosovo in large numbers as a result of military victories of the Ottoman Turks. Some short facts here:1300 BC -Ancestors of the Albanians known as Illyrians settle in Balkans 6th century AD-Various groups of Slavs, the ancestors of Serbs, settle in Balkans. 1180 AD-Stefan Nemanj formed the first united Serbian state. 1389 Battle of Kosova-Polje: Serbia is defeated by an Ottoman army. Serbian Nationalists have used this battle as a seat of anger towards the "Turks" and Muslims in the area. 1459 Kosova becomes a province of Ottoman Empire. 1912-13 Balkan War -Serbia conquers most of Kosova region. 1939- WWII - Kosova Albanians revolt against Serbian rule and join Albania. 1946-Allied powers (particularly Russia, France, and Britain) forcibly incorporate Kosova into Serbia. Kosova remains under the Serb dominated Kosova League of Communists. 1974-Limited autonomy granted to Kosova, after Albanians take over Kosova League of Communists-still part of Yugoslavia. 1987-Milosevic, then head of Serbian communist party, used anti-Albanian and extreme Serb nationalist rhetoric to come to power. 1990-Milosevic terminates autonomy of Kosova. Kosovar Albanian autonomous government is shut down. Civil rights of Kosovar Albanians denied as de-facto Serb military control Kosova. That's how most of the World see Kosova/Kosovo. Do I need to say more?!
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Post by pagane on Mar 6, 2008 2:59:47 GMT -5
This is a copy/paste material, highly incorrect in first place. Where is it mentioned that this area was ruled by Bulgars for centuries? And Rhezus, do you really think that all peoples on the Balkans are simply direct descendents of Illyrians, Thracians and so on? Why do you deny the massive influence of all those who invaded, settled or in whatever form stayed here and gave their contribution to the formation of the modern nations?
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Mar 7, 2008 6:01:43 GMT -5
Haha.. And what is correct - steppe Bulgars and Serbs ruling half of Europe?! What is essential to mention is that there were three great empires: Roman, Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman. Each time they ruled for senturies over these territories. What is incorrect is putting others as being greater than them. You are one of those schauvinists who can't handdle the truth. Typical for some Balkan nations like Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria.
Of course, they are mainly descendants of the the local population. Bulgars who "invaded" the areas were later absorbed in the mases. Ex: Thrace had 2,5 million population - steppe Bulgars were max. 200 thousand ppl. A minority can't absorbe the majority!
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Post by Ivanov on Mar 7, 2008 6:10:13 GMT -5
Bravo Rhezus, you show a remarkable progress, 200 000 is much better than these 10 000, 2 years ago
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Post by Rhezus on Mar 7, 2008 6:21:01 GMT -5
Ivanov, show me the place, two years ago, where I said so? Btw, I say max. 200.000, which could be 150 or 100 thousands.. I'm quite generous after all. ;D
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Post by pagane on Mar 7, 2008 10:04:39 GMT -5
2,5 million?!?! My, my...where did you find that census, Rhezus? How were they spread precisely - 500 000 Bessi, 600 000 Odrissi and several others nembering beteen 50 000 to 100 000? Man, are you drinking something illegal?
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Mar 7, 2008 11:23:04 GMT -5
You can't handle it, you see.. They were Europe's most noumerous ppl (in their hinterlands) - from east to west and north to south. If we only take Herodotus as example.. Read books and you will find out (Alexander Fol, Ivan Duridanov, Dimitar Popov, Velizara Gocheva, etc. - just few good examples. People who know much more than you do). You are not convincing me at all. Bulgars here and bulgars there.. I told you, I don't see them as my/our descendants - that's it.
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Post by pagane on Mar 7, 2008 11:32:41 GMT -5
"If we only take Herodotus as example"
The only problem with Herodotus is that he lived a few centuries before the events we try to discuss. You probably know that after that quite many things happened, like the invasions of tens of people which didn't exactly contribute to enormous increase in the number of the local population.
"I told you, I don't see them as my/our descendants - that's it."
You probably mean ancestors, unless you are some sort of byblical person living here for millenia.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Mar 7, 2008 11:51:09 GMT -5
Yea, you got that right.. Tens of ppl can't contribute much.. Things happen, the World changes - so what? The thing is that these lands are and will stay forever Thracian.
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Post by pagane on Mar 7, 2008 11:55:50 GMT -5
"Tens of ppl can't contribute much"
OK, peoples. I was in a rush. Not such a big mistake as yours, though.
"The thing is that these lands are and will stay forever Thracian."
I somewhat prefer them to stay Bulgarian. And correct me if I am wrong, but in any kind of information about our country we are still called Bulgaria, aren't we?
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Mar 7, 2008 12:17:08 GMT -5
Country names do chage, but not ethnic origin. Same things happen i.e. to France, Belgium etc. but they still do not deny their true origin. Ppl of France are not Frankish - or are they?!..
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Post by pagane on Mar 7, 2008 12:24:17 GMT -5
"Country names do chage"
They do, but not that of Bulgaria, the country with the oldest preserved name in Europe.
"but not ethnic origin."
You see, this changes. Unfortunately for you, it was the Bulgars who changed drastically the ethnic origin of our lands. Handle it somehow.
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Post by Ivanov on Mar 7, 2008 12:39:11 GMT -5
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Post by Rhezus on Mar 7, 2008 14:33:09 GMT -5
I never mentionned that nimber you were refering to..
Never say never.. One day we may change it to Thrace again.
Haha.. They changed the name of our lands, though melted in the masses of thracians and slavs. Hallo... we do not look like Turkmen or Iranians! So handle this..
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Post by pagane on Mar 8, 2008 7:50:46 GMT -5
"Never say never.. One day we may change it to Thrace again."
Sure. We may even learn our dicks to fly in order to fvck the sky.
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Post by Rhezus on Mar 10, 2008 6:15:01 GMT -5
You can't stand it, I see you are an Iranian.. ;D
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Post by pagane on Mar 10, 2008 11:19:33 GMT -5
I am Bulgarian and feel perfectly fine having that nationality. Can you say the same about you?
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Mar 10, 2008 18:42:54 GMT -5
Yea, I'm Bulgarian citizen - that's fine.. but I don't consider myself having a steppe Bulgar origin. That's the point!
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