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Post by Arxileas on Oct 15, 2008 9:42:04 GMT -5
Greetings illyria
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Oct 15, 2008 9:53:13 GMT -5
Why hello mr, how u been?
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Nikola
Senior Moderator
Posts: 1,835
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Post by Nikola on Oct 15, 2008 16:41:00 GMT -5
Are you happy with the name "New Macedonia" ? As far as we Greeks are concerned that’s about the only acceptable name, because we never have denied Slav Macedonians nor do we wish to and that you have nothing to do with the ancient Macedonians. It doesn't matter what I think on this matter because my opinion is of a minority. Yes, I would be ok with New Macedonia but most Macedonians wouldn't.
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Post by Arxileas on Oct 15, 2008 20:24:42 GMT -5
but most Fyromians wouldn't. That's why your country is doomed to fail, Gruevski is following the wishes of the ultra nationalist pseudo desporia and not what the inhabitants within Fyrom want. Fyrom is a ticking time bomb. A mini collapse of Yugoslavia in on the horizon maybe, well see. My opinion your country would had better luck at claiming the Illyrians and naming your self’s Republic of Illyria ;D
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Post by Arxileas on Oct 15, 2008 20:28:23 GMT -5
Why hello mr, how u been? I've been mighty good thanks girl Been out there photographic these past few days, oh thy glorious sunshine. Hope you've been good your self ?
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Oct 16, 2008 2:26:18 GMT -5
Oh yes, that's pretty obvious by the amount of spamming Bulgarians post on youtube videos and forums like this. If anything, Bulgarians seem to be obsessed with trying to convince the world that we Macedonians are just like them. To the point of looking truly pathetic. To convince the world? Do u think it needs convincing? A Romanian first in this forum made that statement (that fyrom is Bulgaria). Why? Because Romania have never been that interested in fyrom and as independant observers the Romanians have unbiased view on fyrom. The world is sure you are Bulgarians and your ansestors identified as Bulgarians 50 years ago. I believe now you are not Bulgarians, because you actually do not like Bulgarians (thanks to the Serbs that presented us to u like wild uneducated tatars in attempt to divide the bulgarian nation). But thruth is, the first circle of writers in Cyrilic were organized around Simeon. So actually the slavic culture as such can be trased back first to the Bulgarian court. Belive me, most Bulgarians are really much more interested in whats happening in Greece or Romania. At least the news show this.
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Nikola
Senior Moderator
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Post by Nikola on Oct 16, 2008 3:48:58 GMT -5
...your ansestors identified as Bulgarians 50 years ago... ...thanks to the Serbs that presented us to u like wild uneducated tatars in attempt to divide the bulgarian nation... I hear this a lot, and it makes me laugh every time because it simply doesn't make any sense. Serbs did NOT instill a Macedonian identity into us. I mean think about it. There are people in Aegean Macedonia, eastern Albania and in western Bulgaria who speak our dialect and also call themselves Macedonians. Why is that? How did the Serb "brainwashing" reach those people even though they were never a part of Yugoslavia? Your argument simply fails on very basic logic and I'm suprised your brain can't comprehend it.
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Post by serban on Oct 16, 2008 7:24:08 GMT -5
...your ansestors identified as Bulgarians 50 years ago... ...thanks to the Serbs that presented us to u like wild uneducated tatars in attempt to divide the bulgarian nation... I hear this a lot, and it makes me laugh every time because it simply doesn't make any sense. Serbs did NOT instill a Macedonian identity into us. I mean think about it. There are people in Aegean Macedonia, eastern Albania and in western Bulgaria who speak our dialect and also call themselves Macedonians. Why is that? How did the Serb "brainwashing" reach those people even though they were never a part of Yugoslavia? Your argument simply fails on very basic logic and I'm suprised your brain can't comprehend it. You 'Macedonians' have no logic whatsoever whether your claiming to be ancient Macedonians offsprings or claiming that you are not Bulgarian. First the ancient Macedonians had already been hellenized when the Slavs came into Macedonia. There were only Greeks there. Second the ancient Macedonians didn't speak a Slavic language so even if they hadn't been hellenized you would still not have any kinship to them. Third what you call Macedonia is not the real ancient Macedonia. The real Macedonia is in Greece and only a tiny portion of it in FYROM. The most part of FYROM was inhabited by Thracians in the east and Illyrians in the west. For instance the 'Macedonian' city of Blagoevgrad was in the past a Thracian settlement. So even if you had been liguistically related to ancient Macedonians, if you your language had been derived from ancient Macedonian you would still have no right over the regions inhabited by Thracians and Illyrians. Fourth the real Macedonia has belonged to the Greek statehood called the Byzantine Empire way before belonging to the 'Macedonian' statehood of Samuil which was in fact Bulgarian (as a recently discovered inscription proves, no surprise there as all sane people already knew that Samuil was Bulgarian). Fifth the rest of what you call Macedonia (Pirin and Vardar 'Macedonias' and also the few 'Macedonian' villages in Albania) has also belonged first to the Greek Byzantine statehood, then to the first Bulgarian czardom and only after that to the 'Macedonian' statehood of Samuil. Sixth Vardar, Pirin and Albanian 'Macedonia' have been inhabited first by Greeks and then by Bulgarians and only after that by 'Macedonians'. When the Slavs speaking a Bulgarian dialect arrived in those territories they found only Greeks, because the Thracians and Illyrians had been hellenized just like the ancient Macedonians of the so-called 'Aegean Macedonia'. You have absolutely no logic arguments and your 'historians' are nothing but scientific-fantastic story writers. www.questbg.com/en/areafocus/74-ruralauthentic/304-blagoevgrad-the-heart-of-bulgarian-macedoniaRead again the folk songs from Bulgarians in 'Aegean and Vardar Macedonia' where they declare themselves to be Bulgarian and also the poem Grk i Blgarin by the 'Macedonian' Konstantin Miladinov. mak-truth.com/nr_kbfs.htmwww.mak-truth.com/nr_gb.htmSKOPJE FALSIFIES THE MILADINOVS' BROTHERS BOOK TITLE www.mak-truth.com/nr_fbfs.htm'And that is why to this very day copies of "Bulgarski Narodni Pesni" kept in Western libraries are subject to the highest and strictest security, as numerous copies have been damaged by psycho Macedonists who cannot accept the reality of what their eyes reveal' BLAZHE KONESKI FALSIFIES "BULGARSKI NARODNI PESNI" www.mak-truth.com/nr_kbfs.htm'In his preface the collector of the songs, the Bosnian Serb Stefan Verkovich, wrote to the Serbian Princess: "No ja sam ove pesme nazvao bugarskima, a ne slovenskima, zbog toga. er danas kad bi kogod makedonskog Slovenina zapitao: sto si ti? s mesta bi mu odgovorio: ja sam Bolgarin, i svoj ezik zovu bolgarskim.." ["But I called these songs Bulgarian rather than Slavic, because if one were to ask today a Macedonian Slav: 'What are you?', he would answer at once: 'I am a Bulgarian, and I call my language Bulgarian...'] (p. xiii)' As for your 'argument' that some Slavs of Pirin, Aegean and Albanian 'Macedonias' declare themselves 'Macedonian' and not Bulgarian: the very few ones in Pirin 'Macedonia' have been taught that they are not Bulgarians by Yugoslav teachers brought in the late 40's and early 50's. Most Pirin 'Macedonia' inhabitants say they are Bulgarians. There are also Slavs in Albania and Aegean 'Macedonia' that declare they are Bulgarians although I think they are a minority. Most of them indeed claim they are 'Macedonians'. I don't know why, probably because they had contacts with Vardar 'Macedonians'. Anyways the folk songs from the 19th 'Macedonians' show that back then there was no 'Macedonian' nation, and that the people from the above mentioned territories considered themselves to be Bulgarians from 'Macedonia' just like the Bulgarians from Thrace called themselves 'Thracians' and Bulgarians simultaneously which means they considered themselves to be Bulgarians from Thrace.
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Nikola
Senior Moderator
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Post by Nikola on Oct 16, 2008 7:49:36 GMT -5
Everything you just wrote is pointless because your claim was that Serbs brainwashed us into thinking we are Macedonians when it simply isn't true because it just doesn't make sense.
You can't force an entire nation to simply change ethnicity overnight.
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Post by serban on Oct 16, 2008 8:12:49 GMT -5
It is pointless if you don't want to read what I wrote. The fact that in the folk songs Bulgarians from 'Macedonia' said they were Bulgarians is the ultimate proof. The fact that you changed ethnicity overnight is something you should be ashamed of. By the way your 'historians' have no logic whatsoever. I know I said this before but it's worth saying it again. Some many logical errors in their theories that is actually funny.
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Post by chalkedon on Oct 16, 2008 8:22:15 GMT -5
Serban...Its kind of like telling a 10 yr old kid there really is no Santa Claus. Its just hard for them to digest it... I came to believe we have to embrace these ppl. And let them search for themselves...or else they will think we are hostile towards them.
Anyway....Northern Macedonia or New Macedonia is fine and I hope we can move forward with this. We need all the moderates we can get in Fyrom...
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Oct 16, 2008 8:51:36 GMT -5
SERBAN thank you very much for trying to teach something to nikolaa. But it is obvious that after years of living in an enviroment where they teach you to hate your kin, you ll never listen to what the whole world (even the Serbs today) try to say to you. The fyroms are long lost to Bulgaria.
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Post by rusebg on Oct 16, 2008 13:02:26 GMT -5
Nikolaa, would you be so kind to explain me the connection between Cleopatra and Goce Delchev?
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Nikola
Senior Moderator
Posts: 1,835
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Post by Nikola on Oct 16, 2008 16:42:12 GMT -5
Nikolaa, would you be so kind to explain me the connection between Cleopatra and Goce Delchev? I claim no link to ancient Macedonians.
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Post by serban on Oct 17, 2008 2:11:50 GMT -5
Serban...Its kind of like telling a 10 yr old kid there really is no Santa Claus. Its just hard for them to digest it... I came to believe we have to embrace these ppl. And let them search for themselves...or else they will think we are hostile towards them. That's exactly what it is. They should be happy with even having a country and stop trying to steal from territory from Albania, Bulgaria and Greece. The 'Macedonians' in Bulgaria are pure Bulgarians since their dialects share the same vocabulary with Shop dialects (with few exceptions, the genuine 'Macedonian' words that even the Shop dialects lack) and the grammar which I think is 99% Bulgarian unlike the FYROMian grammar which is "only" 90% Bulgarian. And the immense majority of them consider themselves Bulgarian. Only about 5000 have been brainwashed by the Yugoslav teachers in the late 40's and early 50's. These are stupid people that only notice the greater similarity between FYROMian and their own dialect's BASIC vocabulary than the similarity between their dialect and official Bulgarian without realizing that the difference between the way official Bulgarian and 'Macedonian' words sound is dialectal and without realizing that the few common Pirin 'Macedonian' and FYROMian words are not enough to justify the classification of Pirin 'Macedonian' dialects as FYROMian dialects. Official Bulgarian and Pirin dialects share a lot more words than Pirin dialects and official FYROMian 'language'. These words don't belong to the basic vocabulary where FYROMian and Pirin dialects are more similar than Pirin dialects and official Bulgarian. It would be interesting to know how compact the Albanian inhabited regions of western FYROM are. As far as I know in southern Kosovo there are scores of villages where there is no Serb. These villages are directly neighboring Albania therefore they are not enclaves surrounded by Serbs. If there is not ONE Serbs in this area then that means that the Serbs are no longer indigenous there since there is no Serb to carry on Serbian continuity. This means that the Albanians have become indigenous in an area made up by x villages bordering Albania. This means that the Serbs have lost their historical rights on this area. I don't know if in FYROM there are such areas. It is enough for one Albanian village in FYROM bordering Albania to be inhabited exlusively by Albanians and that village should belong to Albania.
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Post by ErmirI on Oct 17, 2008 10:47:28 GMT -5
Serban there are scores of villages in W. Macedonia where there are only Albanians. Also owns and cities with overwhelming Albanian population. And with the current nationalist policies of Gruevski & co population in Macedonia will continue to shift until many areas become totally "pure".
In Kosovo there have NEVER been serbs in the villages bordering Albania.
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Post by serban on Oct 17, 2008 13:03:01 GMT -5
In Kosovo there have NEVER been serbs in the villages bordering Albania. Thanks for the information. It's exactly what I have thought. It is likely that in northernmost Vojvodina there were some exclusively Hungarian villages when the Serbs got it from Austria-Hungary in 1919. I know that in Transcarpathian Ukraine there were villages exclusively inhabited by Hungarians according to the last Austo-Hungarian census from 1910. Even in Romania there were 1 or 2 villages bordering present-day Hungary were there were only Hungarians. Good luck with your demographic conquest of FYROM.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 17, 2008 21:31:24 GMT -5
"In Kosovo there have NEVER been serbs in the villages bordering Albania. "
How do you explain all those serbian derived topymns in Albania?
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Oct 18, 2008 3:38:07 GMT -5
Северна Македониjа - Northen Macedonia
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Post by rusebg on Oct 18, 2008 4:01:55 GMT -5
Serbian?! Bre, bre..And why not Bulgarian? You read too much Highduke, Novi. Up to him everything that has ever happened on the Balkans is a kind of civil war between Serbs. Srbi su sve i svuda...
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