Lib-Fier
Amicus
Bricklayer 'works for meals'
Posts: 1,092
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Post by Lib-Fier on Jun 7, 2009 7:14:56 GMT -5
Melty is a history major... maybe he is on to something... I have many times have thought that too... it could and might be a good thing. what's a good thing? you have thought what? you don't know anything about us, we were a colony, turks sapped the life out of us, why should we suddenly turn around and claim otherwise simply because melty has a turkish penis fetish? i don't hate turks, in fact i prefer them to greeks, i feel lke i would get along with them much better, i find turks a lot more tolerant, easy-going and devoid of any delusions of grandure, but they did screw us over, our entire identity is based upon our struggle against ottoman/serbian and greek tirany, i'm just saying it how it is, truth of the matter is that we have a lot more in common with greeks than turks, to go so far as to say that we're brothers? i'll never accept that, kosovars are my brothers, iliridans are my brothers, everyone else i harbour hostility for.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 7, 2009 13:28:30 GMT -5
You guys celebrate the birth of Greek settlements. Do you know 90% of ancient Greek settlements were founded upon existing native ones? In many cases the natives were entirely exterminated to make room for the city, with religious sites and communities either incorporated as second class people or entirely wiped clean. WTF are you on about here ? Please explain... Its common knowledge that most Greek settlements in the Med were founded upon existing native settlements. Usually the natives were either incorporated, kicked out or, in the case that the natives resisted, slaughtered.
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Post by Kastorianos on Jun 7, 2009 14:33:15 GMT -5
Yes...peoples that do not exist today anymore...peoples that are not existing anymore since 2500 years. And surely not most of the Greek settlements were peopled by oher native inhabitants before. You lill piece of chit....they shall swat you when you dare to put a foot on our country.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 7, 2009 14:59:46 GMT -5
My study was principally around Italy and Sicily, and that came down to 90%. Nearly all of the settlements, except a few, show signs of being previously occupied by a non-Greek people. Many grave-sites seem to have been demolished in man occasions, along with other sites of the natives.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Jun 7, 2009 15:03:39 GMT -5
Tell me about this common knowledge... since everyone knows about it... it should be easy.
Fieri flames Melty for being pro Turk..yet himself says he prefers Turks...Is this dude pathetic or what? Bravo to Melty for sticking to what he believes in..although some times he wanders off aimlessly.
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Post by Arxileas on Jun 7, 2009 18:07:31 GMT -5
Its common knowledge that most Albanian settlements in the Med were founded upon existing native settlements. Usually the natives were either incorporated, kicked out or, in the case that the natives resisted, slaughtered. Fixed. That’s how it really is. Guy's personally I believe melty has just earned his loony scholar "high duke style" status with his baseless instigative opinions... .
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Lib-Fier
Amicus
Bricklayer 'works for meals'
Posts: 1,092
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Post by Lib-Fier on Jun 7, 2009 18:08:04 GMT -5
Tell me about this common knowledge... since everyone knows about it... it should be easy. Fieri flames Melty for being pro Turk..yet himself says he prefers Turks...Is this dude pathetic or what? Bravo to Melty for sticking to what he believes in..although some times he wanders off aimlessly. why are you twisting my words? there's nothing more rat-like than twisting one's words, to say that i favor turks ahead of greeks and to say that i do not have any hatred for them is not on the par with regarding them as my brothers...i'm just saying that in light of having struggled and toiled for over 450 years under ottoman occupation it would be pretty non-sensical to call a turk my brother, wouldn't you agree? you just want to encourage melty to continue with his enlightening claims and his fetishism of the ottoman era so that you can go around justifying your unfounded portrayal of us as turkoalvane, and its this double faced hidden agenda that makes you untrustworthy and has earned you the reputation for being a backstabber...coz i know you don't give a sheet about melty, nor do i for that matter.
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Post by Arxileas on Jun 7, 2009 18:40:44 GMT -5
you just want to encourage melty to continue with his enlightening claims and his fetishism of the ottoman era so that you can go around justifying your unfounded portrayal of us as turkoalvane, and its this double faced hidden agenda that makes you untrustworthy and has earned you the reputation for being a backstabber...coz i know you don't give a sheet about melty, nor do i for that matter. That part is actually true...You are known as Turkoalbanians for a reason to us, Soulis and Greek Arvanites were Slauterd by you lot while you proudly fought FOR the Turks and the Soulis and Arvanites were proudly holding the Greek flag. Why deny your recent past ? MUHAMMAD ‘ALÎ PASHA AND ALBANIAN ISLAMIC EMPIRE OF EGYPT (1833-1841) www.geocities.com/ga57/albania/albegypt.html
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Post by alb12345 on Jun 7, 2009 19:12:50 GMT -5
soulis and greek arvanitis wtf is this they did fight for freedom and maybe religion but not for greece at that time wore only romenoi. King Otto and great powers did start using the name greece after the war. one more thing before calling anyone turkalbanian think twice, who is more close to turk us or the modern greeks heheheheh
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Post by Arxileas on Jun 7, 2009 21:01:51 GMT -5
About TurkAlbanians;
After the death of Skanderbeg, the Turks were able to extend their dominion over the entire region. In order to secure their hold they initiated certain fundamental measures that aimed to strip the Christians of all power, and to increase the Muslim population of the region. Christian toparchs (kephalades or sipahis) were forbidden from exercising any authority (raising taxes on behalf of the Turks, maintaining armed retainers, etc.) and privileges (administrative positions, estates to cultivate and others) were granted to those who turned Muslim. As a consequence of these measures, most of the 12000 sipahis (regular cavalry), who were usually large landholders, were islamized in order not to lose their fortunes. These new converts became the harshest persecutors and oppressors of their own people.
Islamization took on greater proportions in the province of "new" Epirus, modern Albania. In fact, the Albanians, lacking a developed ethnic identity until that time, would readily join foreign rulers and invaders. They took advantage of the new Ottoman policy to gain great estates, to the detriment of the Epirots, who remained faithful to their ancestral religion and their national tradition. Initially, the Ottoman yoke had not been particularly heavy. Besides levying taxes (a responsibility assigned to the local notables), the Turks were mainly interested in ensuring their absolute control of the region, and in the territories they conquered, they mostly left the Byzantine administrative system in place. There were, in fact, certain cities and mountain regions which had gained special privileges. Ioannina, for example, was exempt from the "devshirme" (the child tribute, or the seizure of children from the Christian subject peoples). In addition, Turks were forbidden to stay in the city, which was protected by the fortress. Cheimarra, as well as certain other mountainous regions, was also exempt from the head tax and the inhabitants had the right to bear arms.l Before long, conditions began to worsen. The islamization of the Albanians transformed the situation in Epirus and especially in its northern regions. The islamized Albanians, the so-called "Turk-Albanians," became terrible persecutors of the Christian Greeks. Many were forced to abandon their ancestral homes in the countryside, and to move in groups towards the southern areas of Epirus, and other regions of Greece, such as Attica, Boeotia, the Peloponnese, and the Aegean islands. Those who remained in the countryside began to withdraw from the valleys to the mountains and in many regions the phenomenon of "crypto-Christians" appeared.
Despite ongoing persecution, the Epirots continued to maintain their fervent commitment to their culture and their belief in their national regeneration. Rebellions and insurrections continued and, whenever Venice, the Habsburg Empire, or Russia were at war with the Ottoman Empire, the Epirots were always ready to accept promises for support and to rebel. However, time and again they were abandoned and forced to pay the heavy price of the betrayal of their hopes for liberty. An almost unbelievable number of rebellions took place in Epirus during the wars between the Venetians-Austrians and the Ottoman Empire.
Among the more noteworthy revolts was that led in central Epirus by Dionysios 11, metropolitan bishop of Trikke (modern Trikala), called "Skylosophos." He arrived in Epirus in 1611, and incited the local peasants into a revolt. Having defeated certain Turkish provincial garrison troops in the countryside, as well as the inhabitants of certain islamized villages, he succeeded in reaching the Ioannina lake on the night of 10 to 11 September 1611, at the head of approximately one thousand, mostly unarmed, peasants, and to occupy the city. On the following day, the Turks, realizing the weakness of the rebel force and enlisting the sipahi cavalry, crushed the rebellion. Dionysius was captured and flayed a1ive.
The Treaty of Passarowitz (21 July 1718) marked the end of the wars between the Ottoman Empire and the Venetian Republic, that drained their strength and ushered in a period of decline for both. Austria and later Russia continued the struggle against the Turks. The collaboration between the Venetians and the Epirot armatoles ceased, and a long and unusual reign of peace followed in the region. In any case, the resulting conditions in Epirus did not permit the continuation of rebellious movements. The Turks increasingly used the Turk-Albanians to suppress outbreaks of rebellions, not only by the Greeks, but by the other Christian peoples of the Balkans. Thus, the unruly Turk-Albanians evolved into the scourge of all Balkan nations, including the Turks themselves.
The Epirots' possessions, life, and honor at this time, fell into the hands of armed Turk-Albanian gangs. They were punished even in cases of outbreaks of rebellion in other Balkan areas in which they had taken no part. Under the pretext of disarming the Christians or punishing them for secretly financing insurrections, even in remote areas of the Balkans, such as Romania or the Peloponnese, the Turk-Albanians plundered cities and villages of Epirus. The Epirots also felt the vengeful lust of the Turk-Albanians for defeats or losses the latter had suffered at the hands of Christian armies in various wars. They also paid for victories of the rejoicing Albanians against the "infidel." Thus when a new rebellion took place in the Peloponnese in 1769-1770 (the so-called Orlov Revolt), the Turk-Albanians destroyed Moschopolis. Vithkuqi, Nikolitsa, Emporia (Mborje), Linotopi and other cities and towns of Epirus.
The destruction the Turk-Albanians wrought during this period finally forced the Ottoman authorities to intervene by force, in order to curtail them, both in the Peloponnese (1774), as well as in Epirus (1779). The depredations had reached such a level that the Ottomans realized that there Intelwas danger of annihilation of the Christian reayas (subjugated populations), who formed the tax base of the empire, by their payment of the head tax.
It was during this period of upheaval that the terrible Turk-Albanian Tepelenli Ali Pasha arose in Epirus. He became the despot of Epirus for almost 40 years (1778-1821). Ali Pasha turned vengefully against centers of resistance to central authority in Epirus. He succeeded in wiping out the best-known armatoles and klephts of the period, after a prolonged struggle. His wars against the brave Souliots are well-known. He sought finally to establish an autonomous entity and for that purpose tried to coopt his Greek subjects, appointing them to high offices and rank. He never succeeded in gaining their complete trust. The Philihe Hetairia considered his break with the sultan and the concentration of loyalist troops in Epirus an opportunity for a Greek rebellion. Consequently it declared the revolution to achieve Greek independence in 1821. The contribution of the Epirots to the preparations and the conduct of the Great Uprising (the Greek War of Independence, 1821-1830) is well known. Two of the three founders of the Philihe Hetaireia (Nikolaos Skouphas, Athanasios Tsakaloff) were from Epirus. The Souliots, the Cheimarriots and many other Epirots contributed significantly to the struggles in Mesolongi, Attica, the Peloponnese, and even in Crete. During the first two years of the War of Independence, the Epirots were able to tie down the bulk of the Turkish forces away from the main theater of operations, as a result of continuous and fierce battles in Souli and around Ioannina, in Arta and the region of Makrynoros.Finally, the affluent Epirots of Diaspora communities contributed generous economic support to the struggle.[/i]
sources 1-Brittanika, Epirus 2-Konstantinos Vakalopoulos, Epiros 3-The Struggle Of North Epirus, Greek DIS 4-Epirus:4000 years of Greek history and Civilization
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Jun 7, 2009 21:14:51 GMT -5
I really get angry everytime I read the Turks used the Albanians to suppress people.... Then these retards have the nerve to call us genocidal... They want to have their cake and eat too... Oh why do you hate us..why do you call us tourkoalvani...why this why that... GFY's.... to the ones that came from families that perpetrated crimes against innocent civilians... You have the balls to ask questions about the Chams... oh did I say GFY's?
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Post by tito on Jun 7, 2009 21:31:30 GMT -5
Turks used the Albanians to suppress people....
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Jun 7, 2009 21:46:32 GMT -5
Thanks ..that was funny....
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 8, 2009 0:39:59 GMT -5
Lol, Archileus just posted the "history" article written by a particular person named Akritas who used almost only pro-Greek bias sources ("struggle for North Epirus" pretty much sums it)... and a Britannica article. Ignoring the large wealth of other available sources out there. Not to mention he is not even a historian, he is just some Greek with spare time. A nationalist at that. lol. And archi, if you want some more knowledge, you can start here: www.scribd.com/doc/9154180/John-Boardman-Greeks-Oversees-Chap-5-Italy-Greece-and-the-WestIts a pretty long article so I dunno if youll have the patience to sit through it... or the brain capacity to get it.
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Post by Arxileas on Jun 8, 2009 1:21:52 GMT -5
A nationalist like you ?, na mate. He is very respected by a majority of history forums along with member Big Black Beast... www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/epirus-forum/2539-brief-overview-history-epirus.htmlSources accepted by world scholars, and if you think you're more knowledgeable them him your welcomed to challenge him I'll stick to what I know to be the true history, I'm not going to be taught by some kid who is a self declared scholar on a forum called Illyria Forums and is a declared Turkophile, oh talk about being biased lol...
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Jun 8, 2009 1:24:36 GMT -5
This celebration on the Conquest of Istanbul is not a big deal in Turkey. There are hardly news on it.
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Post by Arxileas on Jun 8, 2009 1:25:39 GMT -5
The Turks increasingly used the Turk-Albanians to suppress outbreaks of rebellions, not only by the Greeks, but by the other Christian peoples of the Balkans. Thus, the unruly Turk-Albanians evolved into the scourge of all Balkan nations, including the Turks themselves.
The destruction the Turk-Albanians wrought during this period finally forced the Ottoman authorities to intervene by force, in order to curtail them, both in the Peloponnese (1774), as well as in Epirus (1779).
If memory serves me right, this would be what Basili was refering to about the Turks having been fed up with them a few months ago or last year ?...
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Post by Arxileas on Jun 8, 2009 1:28:50 GMT -5
This celebration on the Conquest of Istanbul is not a big deal in Turkey. There are hardly news on it.
Hiya mate long time, how are you ? We're just dealing with a few people who are in denial ;D
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 8, 2009 1:29:30 GMT -5
Which scholars? Care to show me their reviews in journals? Lol. And I wont post there since I wont waste my time enlisting myself in Greek forums. My paths have crossed his in allempires in the past and if they do again, Ill happily contradict some of his claims (those regarding Greek national movement obviously excluded, since I dont quite give a rats ass about it, nor about the Albanian massacres in Morea, since they did happen... thankfully).
Dont you know the saying: Two wrongs dont make a right? Me being biased doesnt make him somehow acceptable. Spinning history by continually ascribing terrifying adjectives like "terrifying" is a method of historiography that is over a century old.
And I never claimed to be anything. I just speak reality better then the rest here.
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Post by Arxileas on Jun 8, 2009 2:00:09 GMT -5
Listen to be a member at allempires and make a few baseless claims like you do on here without siting sources, you GET banned as many of you already have been banned can't remember the names I have seen there banned from here.
Melty you and your lot never accept sources even from the U.N when it doesn’t agree with your world view, because the bottom line is it doesn’t fit your agendas you’re trying to project, what can I say. If you were right I would state it like I always do, not this time because you’re trying to push an agenda which is not only unacceptable but also unrealistic. Heck you even insulted Aadmin last time because he caught you out being wrong and you tried pushing your own idea as acceptable to what couldn’t have been possible to him BUT only to you. Now doesn’t this say something about you ? Think about it hard.
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