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Post by Kastorianos on Jul 28, 2009 11:23:35 GMT -5
Dont blame the church for anything...I cant hear anymore this leftist hating ignorant paroles against our church.
Our church is surely not perfect...but please do never forget that we owe it our existence as people. Without them we would all be speaking turkish today...and be muslims. The church deserves a lot of respect. On the other hand that doesnt mean that it should have political power of course...but its still an inseperable part of our people and history...and always should...and will be...no matter how much leftist scum is trying to prevent it..
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Lib-Fier
Amicus
Bricklayer 'works for meals'
Posts: 1,092
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Post by Lib-Fier on Jul 28, 2009 11:28:49 GMT -5
Lib-Fier dont blame me for sth I cant help. You say I dont know the Albanian people...perhaps...but I have met many Albanians here...its not my fault that they are giving such an impression...you guys here are representing your people...didnt you know that?
you shouldn't define a country by the behaviour of a few people in here that 99% of the times say sh1t they do not mean or take it too far
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Post by Kastorianos on Jul 28, 2009 11:31:24 GMT -5
Have you ever been in Greece?
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Post by chalkedon on Jul 28, 2009 12:38:39 GMT -5
Dont blame the church for anything...I cant hear anymore this leftist hating ignorant paroles against our church. Our church is surely not perfect...but please do never forget that we owe it our existence as people. Without them we would all be speaking turkish today...and be muslims. The church deserves a lot of respect. On the other hand that doesnt mean that it should have political power of course...but its still an inseperable part of our people and history...and always should...and will be...no matter how much leftist scum is trying to prevent it.. LOL ! I agree with you about those leftists..they are lazy bastards as well.. I also cant stand KKE...another group of ppl thinking communism has a chance in this day and age. Im still waiting for a party I can vote for... I dont even want to think about the malakia i did the last time with those damn enviromentalists... ;D Although church and state should be seperated while the knowledge and mentality of our ancestors should be implemented ASAP.
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Lib-Fier
Amicus
Bricklayer 'works for meals'
Posts: 1,092
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Post by Lib-Fier on Jul 28, 2009 12:42:19 GMT -5
Have you ever been in Greece? yes, a couple of times, years ago
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Aris
Amicus
Greek Troll
Posts: 832
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Post by Aris on Jul 28, 2009 12:42:38 GMT -5
1. Persians: We are not living in ancient times. Finally these romantic people understand it ! Too many factions attack the Ottomans during that times . Russians , Italians , British etc. They were the most strongest army of the World , they occupy all Europe alone ! Italy was a colony of Hitler ! Regards ! Even bad ! +1
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Post by leshte on Jul 28, 2009 12:42:50 GMT -5
Kastroianos replace Albania with Greece in what you said above and you got it.
P.S Someone failed to mention the Russian satelites in the EU and in Europe in general. How is that not against EU principles and how is that not that similar to being a US satellite. I personally think in many cases, Greece behaves as a Russian satellite within the EU. Judging by that; the world is better off with the US and its satellites than the Ruskis who poison journalists with radioactive materials.
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Post by chalkedon on Jul 28, 2009 12:44:16 GMT -5
Aris
dont try to manipulate a conversation...do some self analyzing yourself...
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Aris
Amicus
Greek Troll
Posts: 832
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Post by Aris on Jul 28, 2009 12:46:00 GMT -5
Aris dont try to manipulate a conversation...do some self analyzing yourself... Don't brake anymore my balls !
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Post by chalkedon on Jul 28, 2009 12:52:22 GMT -5
Kastroianos replace Albania with Greece in what you said above and you got it. P.S Someone failed to mention the Russian satelites in the EU and in Europe in general. How is that not against EU principles and how is that not that similar to being a US satellite. I personally think in many cases, Greece behaves as a Russian satellite within the EU. Judging by that; the world is better off with the US and its satellites than the Ruskis who poison journalists with radioactive materials. Leshte, when you have pricks like George W Bush wanting to build military bases and arms in ex-commie countries that border Russia...it is expected the russians will react. Not to mention unilateral recognitions like kosovo that opened up a can of worms.. In many cases, all the problems in this world are related to US foreign policy regarding jews and special interest groups. I am optimistic that with Obamas administration, this mentality will change..
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Post by leshte on Jul 28, 2009 13:35:30 GMT -5
First of all, Kosova independence was a clear cut thing. You have to be a Serb, Slav, Russian, have treated people bad in your own country at some point, or anti-US to not be able to see that. Everyone but those groups did see that thing coming. Whether the Serbs agree or not; that Kosova's independence was coming it was crystal clear. Head to the Kosova forum and see Ahtisari explain how things were at that time. Second; declarations of independence in 99% of all cases are unilateral. By nature countries and regions declare independence because the conditions are such that they cannot agree with the other country they are declaring independence from, hence in 99% of cases because of not being able to agree they split and in 99% of such cases the split is not amicable hence talk of reaching a non-unilateral agreement is just utopic. The US declaration of independence itself was unilateral.
Having said that, I am of the opinion that Greece follows a pro-Russian politics regardless of the Kosova issue. Regardless, of who is US president at that time ( Agreed Bush was a less than bright president. Not qualified for the job). Or to better say it, Anti- American US policy which in most cases fits with the Russian foreign policy. Also while I agree that US politics regarding Israel should be more realistic, especially concerning settlements and Israeli foreign policy bravado. In fact I believe they should be forced and coerced into agreeing and signing a document recognizing the Palestinian state; army, police, and everything that constitutes a state; provided the Palestinians recognize Israel ( recognizing it as a Jewish state as Israel wants is plain stupid) . One cannot be naive enough to even think about the US abandoning Israel. They would be devoured in one day by the Arabs with Russian collaboration.
At the end of the day I am a firm believer that the World with the US as the superpower rather than the Russians or the Chinese is indeed a much much better world.
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Post by chalkedon on Jul 28, 2009 13:44:23 GMT -5
Cmon Leshte...you cant have independence for kosvoans and not for ossetians. It the typical american double standard depending on where their self interests lay ( which is normal of course ). But to do it so blatantly and expect everyone around you doesnt notice is just naive.
Ashitarri in my opinion was biased towards american policy in the balkans...there were alternatives, but independence like you said was determined right after the bombing of serbia. Its either you follow international law or you dont...you cant have an in between situation.
Greece teams with the russians in hoping to check the american alliance with turkey. Its always been that way... Right now in the EU, Greece is trying to focus its alliance with european partners..France is a great example. South Stream pipeline is something that is in Greece's interest, why should greece stay out of the energy arena and let turkey get all the projects with american endorsement ? List goes on..
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Post by leshte on Jul 28, 2009 14:21:47 GMT -5
Sure you can. Kosova and Ossetia are not related. Why should Kosova's fate depend on Ossetia's fate or vice versa. Each should be dealt separately. Second; talking about double standards. Lets look at this a little longer. Isn't it a double standard for the Russians to recognize Ossetia but not Kosova? No international laws apply to Russia? The thing with you Greeks is that you have this inertia to denounce as bad policy anything coming from the US but shut your eyes closed when it comes to the way Russia conducts its foreign policy. It is not so much about keeping in check US alliance with Turkey rather than a natural biasness on the part of the Greek population. The first reaction seems always to go against the US. I don't know if that is necessarily a good thing especially considering that your rivals (Turkey) naturally capitalizes on your against America inclinations and goes for pro-US policy approach.
Going back to international law. I don't know where you were in the 90's. What happened to the international law then when Serbia was raping it. What is happening to international law now when Serbia is raping it on a daily basis by hiding Mladic. Also as Ahtisari explains to you in the video in 2005 the security council passed a resolution which denies persecutive governments form governing the people it persecuted. One cannot agree to other alternatives for the sake of fulfilling the wishes of the side who for years repeatedly disregarded human life and international law, and continues to disregard it today by hiding war criminals. There are consequences for those actions. You go to a frenzy war; where you ethnically cleanse 1 million people it is more than normal for the world to punish you by allowing those people to be sovereign. That is the lesson; and I believe anyone who engages in the same things should have the same punishment.
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Post by chalkedon on Jul 28, 2009 14:29:36 GMT -5
Ok then... how would you feel if the small amount of greeks left in N Epirus suddenly multiply and become seccesionist ? Would Albania want to go in and reclaim order ? Or would you just let it go and grant them independence... ? See it the other way around....
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Post by leshte on Jul 28, 2009 14:41:10 GMT -5
First of all there was no sudden multiplication. This is Serb Academy of Science propaganda. Albanians have been the majority there for quite a while. Second, If the Greeks become a majority in that area and my government behaves the same way the Serbian government did and thousands of civilians are killed and majority of them are expelled through tanks and terror I will be the first one to join the Greeks and ask for their independence. I say this not as an Albanian or US citizen or whatever. I say this as a human being. The time when a government persecutes its people and acts as if nothing happens its over. You persecute your people you have lost your sovereignty over them simple as that. Be it Albania, Greece, Germany whoever.
P.S Spain bombed the Basques and called Hitler to send airplanes and bomb the Basques which they did. Under this principle Spain knows its on the wrong side. That is one of the reasons they are against it. La Guernica by Picasso was based on that event.
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Lib-Fier
Amicus
Bricklayer 'works for meals'
Posts: 1,092
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Post by Lib-Fier on Jul 28, 2009 14:43:50 GMT -5
why would albs want to break away from the motherland? that's a bad example on many accounts, its a blatant provocation, i think it would be more appropriate to give an example along the lines of arvanites wanting to join their motherland i.e. albania, in case you're wondering.
S. Ossetia is not the same example as Kosova, the Georgian government did not ethnicly cleanse, kill indiscriminately, massacre and drive them over the border into sorrounding countries
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Post by Kastorianos on Jul 28, 2009 18:02:55 GMT -5
Have you ever been in Greece? yes, a couple of times, years ago And the people were not nice to you because of your ethnicity?
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
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Post by Kanaris on Jul 28, 2009 18:47:00 GMT -5
One describes these Albos>>>>>>hubris!
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Lib-Fier
Amicus
Bricklayer 'works for meals'
Posts: 1,092
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Post by Lib-Fier on Jul 29, 2009 2:08:14 GMT -5
yes, a couple of times, years ago And the people were not nice to you because of your ethnicity? would that be so shocking? i didn't spend much time in greece, i can't recall any unpleasantries happening to me, but almost every alb i know living there has a story to tell.
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Post by leshte on Jul 29, 2009 12:44:35 GMT -5
It's not so much the stuff that immigrants go through that bothers me. Even though it is the problem for them. Immigration from Albania caught Greece unprepared and there was a lot of Albanians who went to Greece at the same time. Having in mind that not all of them were exemplary in their behaviour some sort of clash with the immigrants was expected. What is bothersome are the Karta types and the Arxileas types. You know the wackos and the cookoos who advocate the Megali idea and anexations and all the other wet dreams they see on a nightly basis. I misspoke. Even this is not bothersome. What is bothersome is that there are many many Greeks who not only tolerate that but who think like them and would follow them in a heartbeat.
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