Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 3, 2009 8:43:15 GMT -5
Guys i just read a book from Demosthenes Kurtovik (τι ζητούν οι βάρβαροι) and an old makedonian poem goes like:
Aide Mitro, Aide Geso haide i drugi palikari Armata i tziphane Vzemete Gamo ntes nema da stane ni horo ni panigir Planinata antariazei vece na barout mirise Aide Mitro, Aide Geso A ti, zavaligia nyfi nema da hareis stefani S Haro koumparia ti sloutsa Aide Mitro, Aide Geso
What is this? Half Greek, half slav...
This reminds me of the way that native Vlah from metsovo speak: Half greek half latin.
So???
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 3, 2009 12:47:25 GMT -5
Greek, Slav and Turkish combined.
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Post by macmako on Oct 3, 2009 18:52:50 GMT -5
Great book. Very "Balkan", and the author knows of the Balkan passions that can easily cause war between friends. Greek, Slav and Turkish combined. There are many kinds of Slavs in the world. Would you be so kind as to be more specific or shall I help you with this?
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Kralj Vatra
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Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 4, 2009 0:06:28 GMT -5
Greek, Slav and Turkish combined. the turkish factor is negligible (only one word).
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Kralj Vatra
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Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 4, 2009 0:10:15 GMT -5
Great book. Very "Balkan", and the author knows of the Balkan passions that can easily cause war between friends. Greek, Slav and Turkish combined. There are many kinds of Slavs in the world. Would you be so kind as to be more specific or shall I help you with this? how did you find the way that the author presents the 3 rivals (serbs,bulgarians,greeks)? Although he tries to slander on Serbs one 2-3 occasions, he never escapes the inevitable reality, that they are by far the most advanced nation in the balkans. (e.g. The serb book being the most sophisticated nominee is a natural outcome). I liked the book as well. PS Did you figure out if "Nina Daneva" was a transvestite or not? PS2 I still fail to perceive what is balkan and what is not balkan. Greece is not so balkan (we belong to middle east, mentality-wise) (e.g. the way we regard women, is by far anti-balkan and fully 100% arabic). Bulgaria? (i dont know) Croatia surely dont want to be regarded as "balkanian", although having many identical customs/habits with the serbs. Boslims are still dizzy about what they are. Serbs/Romanians are the only nations i know which keep the Balkan flag high, they name their bands, restaurants/music after the term "balkan" and they are proud of it.
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Post by macmako on Oct 4, 2009 3:49:35 GMT -5
Great book. Very "Balkan", and the author knows of the Balkan passions that can easily cause war between friends. There are many kinds of Slavs in the world. Would you be so kind as to be more specific or shall I help you with this? how did you find the way that the author presents the 3 rivals (serbs,bulgarians,greeks)? Although he tries to slander on Serbs one 2-3 occasions, he never escapes the inevitable reality, that they are by far the most advanced nation in the balkans. (e.g. The serb book being the most sophisticated nominee is a natural outcome). I liked the book as well. PS Did you figure out if "Nina Daneva" was a transvestite or not? PS2 I still fail to perceive what is balkan and what is not balkan. Greece is not so balkan (we belong to middle east, mentality-wise) (e.g. the way we regard women, is by far anti-balkan and fully 100% arabic). Bulgaria? (i dont know) Croatia surely dont want to be regarded as "balkanian", although having many identical customs/habits with the serbs. Boslims are still dizzy about what they are. Serbs/Romanians are the only nations i know which keep the Balkan flag high, they name their bands, restaurants/music after the term "balkan" and they are proud of it. I was more into the Balkan "passions" in the book, and did not notice if Nina was anything other than a woman. But since she was so mysterious, and Mr. Kurtovik studied anthropology and specialized in human sexuality, I would not be surprised if Nina was what you say she may have been in the book. To me, Balkan "passions" involves intense nationalism, stubbornness and ignorance. I liked it when the friends got along, then "forbidden" love and different versions of a story caused all those unresolved Balkan issues to ruin the friendship, and so easily. The book was all about nationalism and identity, in which many of us with ties to the Balkans understand all too well.
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 4, 2009 4:23:11 GMT -5
Great book. Very "Balkan", and the author knows of the Balkan passions that can easily cause war between friends. Greek, Slav and Turkish combined. There are many kinds of Slavs in the world. Would you be so kind as to be more specific or shall I help you with this? Its a Bulgarian dialect. As far as Bulgarians can understand it perfectly.. its a Bulgarian dialect.
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 4, 2009 4:27:26 GMT -5
Greece is not so balkan (we belong to middle east, mentality-wise) (e.g. the way we regard women, is by far anti-balkan and fully 100% arabic). ..maybe you or the people you hang around belong mentaly to middle east. Not me or my environment mate.. By the way... in a Greek beach bar during summer you can see how middle eastern mentality have the Greek women.. ;D ;D I doubt there is any other place in Balkans where women are sooo free like they're in Greece. Now.. by free.. if you mean women to be like men like it happens in Britain.. no thanks dude. We'll want them as they're; free and feminin.
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Post by macmako on Oct 4, 2009 5:11:56 GMT -5
Great book. Very "Balkan", and the author knows of the Balkan passions that can easily cause war between friends. There are many kinds of Slavs in the world. Would you be so kind as to be more specific or shall I help you with this? Its a Bulgarian dialect. As far as Bulgarians can understand it perfectly.. its a Bulgarian dialect. I thought that you would say that.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 4, 2009 7:03:35 GMT -5
Great book. Very "Balkan", and the author knows of the Balkan passions that can easily cause war between friends. There are many kinds of Slavs in the world. Would you be so kind as to be more specific or shall I help you with this? Its a Bulgarian dialect. As far as Bulgarians can understand it perfectly.. its a Bulgarian dialect. maybe all Serbs/Bosnian Serbs/Bosnian Muslims and half of the croats are Bulgarians as well by this logic. Basil, are you Ioan in disguise?
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Post by macmako on Oct 4, 2009 7:10:40 GMT -5
Actually, I think Basil considers Bulgarians the only Slavic people. He is always referring to Bulgarians as Slavs. No other Slavic people are considered Slavic in his views. I wonder how the other Slavic people feel about that.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 4, 2009 7:11:05 GMT -5
Greece is not so balkan (we belong to middle east, mentality-wise) (e.g. the way we regard women, is by far anti-balkan and fully 100% arabic). ..maybe you or the people you hang around belong mentaly to middle east. Not me or my environment mate.. By the way... in a Greek beach bar during summer you can see how middle eastern mentality have the Greek women.. ;D ;D I doubt there is any other place in Balkans where women are sooo free like they're in Greece. Now.. by free.. if you mean women to be like men like it happens in Britain.. no thanks dude. We'll want them as they're; free and feminin. You didn't need to get personal again, anyway i explain: A small (professional) van waits in the traffic lights. Two dudes are sitting (driver/co-driver) in the front seats. A cute young woman walks among the cars and gives away some commercial brochures. Serbia ====== The guys will not even open the window. Greece ====== the guys will have the car's windows open and some skyladiko song playing loud, and one of them will talk to the girl (with 99% probability) and say smth varying between 'what nice eyes' to 'i will make your "behind" like german "taliro"' at the other extreme. Thats what i call arabic. The average working class (mastoras, souvlatzis etc...) has arabic brains. As to which women in the balkans have more open minds, dude take some trips in balkans and then come back to share your thoughts.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 4, 2009 7:11:38 GMT -5
Its a Bulgarian dialect. As far as Bulgarians can understand it perfectly.. its a Bulgarian dialect. I thought that you would say that. everyone would ve said that.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 4, 2009 7:38:56 GMT -5
I thought that you would say that. everyone (who has no clue) would ve said that. corrected ;D
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Post by rusebg on Oct 4, 2009 7:55:55 GMT -5
You confuse me, demosthene. At a certain point one might think you are literate person, judging by your flawless writing and so on. But when it comes to the content of your posts, you sound like a complete imbecile who has no touch with reality whatsoever.
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Post by macmako on Oct 4, 2009 7:57:25 GMT -5
I thought that you would say that. everyone would ve said that. No, Ioan. Those that do not look at the issues realistically would say that. What is realistic is that Bulgarians are Bulgarians, Russians are Russians, Macedonians are Macedonians, Polish are Polish, etc. As far as language, the south slavic languages comprises of Bosnian, Bulgarian, Bunyev, Church Slavonic, Croatian (Chakavian, Kajkavian, Shtokavian, Burgenland Croatian, Molisean), Macedonian, Montenegrin, Old Church Slavonic, Serbian, Slavic dialects of Greece, and Slovene (Prekmurian, Resian). The Slavic dialects of Greece mentioned are the dialects of Macedonian and Bulgarian spoken by minority groups in the regions of Macedonia and Thrace in northern Greece. Granted, the Bulgarian and Macedonian languages are quite similar, but there are quite the similarities in all South Slavic languages, some more similar to a certain language than others. This does not negate the fact that Macedonian is a language separate from Bulgarian, Serbian, Croatian, and Bosnian (the four South Slavic languages Macedonian is similar to)
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 4, 2009 8:30:48 GMT -5
Linguistically of the Skopjians was and is a Bulgarian dialect. Beginning in the 1860 and 70s, the Bulgarian idiom was dubbed 'makedonski' by the first Macedonists, without success initially they attempted to promote the term among the wider Slavonic population of Macedonia. In 1903 whilst in Sofia, Krste Misirikov, (who indeed possessed of a strong Bulgarian conscience) was the first person to transform the idiom into a literary language by laying down the principles of the 'Makedonski' language in his book: ''Za Makedonckite Raboti'' (On Macedonian Matters). Come the Balkan wars, the Slavic idiom of the population of Vardar was still regarded by most Slavologists and foreign obsevers as a Bulgarian dialect, despite Serbian claims of it being a off-shoot of the Serbian language. In 1913 Yugoslavia undertook a policy of de-bulgarianization and Serbinization of the Slavic idiom of Vardarska. In 1945 a similar policy was adopted in terms of de-bulgarianising the dialect by the YCP (Yugoslav Communist Party) who codified the "Macedonian" alphabet and language. The codification of the idiom was based in part on the principles laid down by Misirkov.
Despite the Slavs of Macedonia being under the rule of Belgrade for 75 years (monarchist rule from 1913 until communist rule from 1945), the so-called "Macedonian" language of Macedonia is still mutually intelligible with standard Bulgarian and from a linguistic point of view; the same langauge. This page will examine the language both linguistically and track its progress historically.
---------------http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/slavic-history-slavic-migration/495-linguistically-fyrom-bulgarian-dialect-macedonian-language.html-----------------------------------------------------------------
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 4, 2009 8:34:46 GMT -5
Krste Misirkov is a prime example of the often fluxuating ethnic conscience of some of the early Macedonists at the turn of the century. Many intellectuals were having to decide whether they favoured annexation by Bulgaria, or an autonomous Macedonia. While Misirkov is curiously heralded by Skopjians as one of the "founders of the Macedonian nation", he is also wrote that the Slavs of Macedonia "are more Bulgarian than those in Bulgaria!".
He was the first person to transform "Macedonian" as a literary language. While in Sofia in 1903, he published the book ''Za Makedonckite Raboti'' ('On Macedonian Matters') in which he laid down the principles of the 'Macedonian' language. According to this book, the language should be based on the central dialects of Vardar. He also used those dialects to write the book itself. Misirkov died in 1926. Decades after his death with the communist takeover of Yugoslavia, Misirkov's principles were used by the Yugoslav committees for the codification of the Macedonian language.
It appears that at one point in his life, under Russian sponsership, he favoured his own brand of Macedonism and this is when he published his book on the 'Macedonian language. Later he adopted a vehemently Bulgarian nationalist stance and abandoned his Macedonism, apparently beleiving it would never materialise as an ideology; though it ironically it did, long after his death after WW2.
In his book, ''The national identity of the Macedonians'', which he wrote in 1924, two years before he died, he uncompromisingly defends the Bulgarian character of the population of Macedonia saying "We [Macedonian Slavs] are more Bulgarian than those in Bulgaria!". He completley retracts everything he wrote in his book ''Za Makedonckite Raboti'' about the Macedonian language, with the explanation that "I wrote it as a politician". The book is considerably pro-Bulgarian, describing himself as a Bulgarian, nationalistically so.
Krste Misirkov National Identity of the Macedonians. 1924 ã:
Quote:
Krste Misirkov wrote:
1. We speak Bulgarian language and we believed with Bulgarians is our strong power.
2. The Bulgarians in Macedonia. The future of Macedonia is spiritual union of the Bulgarians in Macedonia.
3. The Macedonian Slavs are called Bulgarians.
4. The biggest part of the population are called Bulgarians.
5. All spoke that Macedonians are Bulgarians. Until 1978 all including Russian Government spoke the Macedonians are Bulgarians. But after the Berlin Congress the Serbs came with pretension to have Macedonia. They try to change the European opinion that in Macedonia there are Serbian too.
6. If Ilinden uprising win we will be thankful to Bulgarians, but Serbians try to compete with Bulgarians and spend a lot of money and propaganda. If Macedonia is autonomic there will be no space for propaganda and the Serbs have to leave Bulgarian in peace.
7. The Ilinden Uprising Committee is Bulgarian.
8. Bulgarian Language and Bulgarian name. The Committee is ready to give guarantee to Europe that Macedonia will not unify with Bulgaria, but they can't take the Bulgarian name and language from Macedonia!
9. Unification between Turks and Bulgarians in Macedonia. Serbia and Greece do not want to give us autonomous and independent Macedonia, because they see this as a fist step to unification. In Macedonia have only pure Bulgarian population, which can't be unified with the Turks.
10. Serbia is against autonomous Macedonia. Serbia is afraid because Macedonia with the Bulgarian population will have tendency to united with Bulgaria and for this reason Serbia will not allow this.
11. They divided us and now they do not allow us to unify. We are living now 25 years divided from Bulgaria and they do not allow us to unify? We call ourselves Bulgarians or Macedonians and see us as separate and radically different from the Serbs with Bulgarian national consciousness.
12. Our Grandfathers call themselves Bulgarians. They never thing that we will be having such a problem to call ourselves so.
13. Bulgarian Literally Language. We the Macedonians voluntarily choose one and the same language with Bulgarians long before the liberation of Bulgaria from Turkey. The prohibition from the Serbs to use our literally language, which is the only one connection between us and Bulgarians is significant violation of our human rights. .. and further.. when they forbid us to call ourselves Bulgarians, to learn Bulgarian history and to be ashamed from everything which connect us with Bulgarians. It is enough to learn our Macedonian culture and history to understand that we are very different from Serbian nationality.
14. There no difference between Bulgarian and Macedonian Slav. The Greeks in 1804 long before Bulgarian exarchate do not make any difference between Bulgarian and West Macedonian dialect.
15. Bulgarian national name of Macedonians. In the IX century in the first Bulgarian kingdom we do not have anything against this Bulgarian national name for us and for the rest of Bulgarians in Bulgaria.
16. We Macedonian Bulgarians (Macedonians) like Bulgarian state as our own.
17. The Serbs are much inferior than we are. We demand freedom for all of us and not to be material for assimilation experiments of the Serbs, which stand much inferior from us in spiritual narrow-mindedness and chauvinism.
18. The Serbs come to the idea of the Macedonian nationality. The Serbs develop the concept for special Macedonian Nation, which they put in the south Macedonia. They declare north Macedonia as a pure Serbian land. Middle Macedonia as a transition between Serbian and Macedonian language.
19. The population of Skopje is pure Bulgarian. Bulgaria make a big error when recognize the territory for "neutral". It is pure Bulgarian and the population in Skopje and surrounding area is pure Bulgarian.
20. Why the Serbs want Macedonia? What Serbian you can find in this pure Bulgarian land, which is since 6 century till today Bulgarian, despite of all vicissitude of the historical destiny.
21. Serbian-Greek attempt on the Bulgarians in Macedonia. Because of the treaty between Serbia and Greece Bulgaria was robed and 2 Millions Bulgarians where conquered from Serbia and Greece. Yes! To many damage did the Serbs on Bulgaria, Macedonia and Dobrudja and with this they do not stop! They filled that their vicious work will be discovered and to be prosecuted by the Slavic consciousness because of the freedom of 1/3 of Bulgarians - the Bulgarians in Macedonia.
22. The lies about Bulgarian and Bulgaria. Restoration of the human rights of the Bulgarians in Macedonia and Dobrudja, despite of the lies spread for Bulgaria and Bulgarians! Who is against Great Bulgaria, he is against the Slavs!
23. Krali Marko songs in Macedonia are from Bulgarian origin. The songs of Krali Marko in Macedonia are from Bulgarian origin and speak for the Bulgarian influence over the Serbs and not the opposite.
24. The Serbs will coarse many wars, if the "Dushan empire" will not disappear. In the last quarter of the XIX century the Serbs start to dream to restore this abandon from Serbs it selves empire. With intrigues and and allies they conquer big part of Bulgarian Macedonia. But this Serbian advantages of 1912 coarse the war in 1913 and they coarse the war in 1915-1918 and will coarse many more wars, unless "Dushan empire" get liquidate in the same way as in XIV century on the principal of the self-determination of the nations.
25. Serbs falsify the history. In Bulgaria Macedonians have all personal rights, freedom of expression and self-determination in Bulgaria. The Serbs try to destroy the soul of the Macedonians and for that reason the falsify the hole history. In this Serbian logic and Serbian fillings there are something abnormal, which is prove of the failure of the Serbian state. They are afraid from the Macedonians in Macedonia and also this living outside.
26. The Macedonian population is against Serbs. You have to know that because your Serbian politics against Macedonians you have against you all past present and future Balkan governments and the Macedonian population.
27. The Bulgarians are our fellow citizens. The European recognize that only independent sate will put an end of the competition conquer and hegemony on the Balkan. An will end once forever violence of the new conquer. And everlasting peace on the Balkan and in Europe will rise. Greece and Serbia will loose territorially and les Bulgaria and will win all Macedonians.
28. The Serbs forbid us to celebrate all Bulgarian holidays. We are forced to celebrate St. Sava and forbid to celebrate St. Cyril and St. Methodius and Ilinden Uprising.
29. Our souls are in Bulgaria. Serbia conquer the land and the body of Macedonians, the souls are in Bulgaria and with Bulgaria.
30. Krste Petkov Misirkov defines himself as a Bulgarian. 1897 I was accepted in Petersburg University in Russia and five years I was Bulgarian student community as Bulgarian.
31. Self appreciation of the statement in the book "For Macedonian matters". The readers of this article will be very surprised of the big controversy opinion, which they will meet here in comparison with the article "For Macedonian matters". To understand this contradiction I will remember you, that I wrote as an improvised politicians
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 4, 2009 8:56:50 GMT -5
^ another hasli bulgar lie!.
I wonder if misirkov might have been a bulgarian agent working in serbian vardar during the Bylgarska Ekzarkhija. The crap you posted above ioan is rubbish because what he tells happened to the serbs during the years of the exarchos. The year he wrote this was in the exarchate period.
Another lie, like khan kuber etc....
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Post by rusebg on Oct 4, 2009 9:41:42 GMT -5
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