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Post by Georgios Kastriotis on Dec 29, 2007 12:36:59 GMT -5
go away
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Post by grksdied4you on Dec 29, 2007 19:54:19 GMT -5
Yes go away racist. It did not take much to figure you out. You are like a scab. If we pick a scab it bleeds profusely. If we talk to you then you speak profusely.
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Post by grksdied4you on Dec 29, 2007 19:54:40 GMT -5
God PLEASE MAKE IT STOP.
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Post by Kassandros on Dec 30, 2007 18:02:11 GMT -5
albanesehoney "Previous to Yugoslavia including Macedonia as a republic, no Greek ever claimed the Macedonians as their own." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- First of all.. the known name was Vardaska Banovina for their region. Macedonian republic became afterwards... and god knows what will become in the future.. Second.... have you ever heard Americans claiming Texas as their own ... or Germans claiming Bavaria as their own? There is no need for that. If someday.. a clown appears next to them claiming they are Texans or Bavarians... then you'll see those countries claiming the obvious.. "In fact, most Greeks I met in school always denied Alexander or the Macedonians being Greek. " --------------------------------------------------------------------- ...? What school was that???!! Honey... we really have to discuss seriously about the level of your studies... and the level of your classmates.. "This inclusion into the greek identity of the ancient Macedonians is a recent phenomena among the greeks." ---------------------------------------------------------- Half of my family died in the Macedonian Strugle between 1908-1912 in order to have the right to keep their Macedonian ID and not to exchange it with a Bulgarian one. A little bit earlier..... Alexander the Great was shouting for his Hellenic roots. And a little bit earlier...... Macedonians were taking part in the Olympic Games of the Hellenic world. Now... it depends... what is "recent" phenomena for you.... "And, it's simply due to the monopolization of the tourist trade in the balkans, which the greeks have now lost ground to Turkey and the newly freed nations in the balkans." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- With a 10% raise every year... and hosting double the size of our population......again it depends what "lost ground" is for you;
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Post by greek1234 on Dec 31, 2007 1:31:30 GMT -5
GreekSlav/ Strategos Ephialtes is proboly an Albanian or a Fyromanian pretending to be Greek. Just ignore his anti Greek propoganda.
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Post by Niklianos on Dec 31, 2007 15:56:11 GMT -5
Dialects are supposed to have some different words and sounds but are overall understandable...Tosks and Ghegs can understand perfectly each-other...Athenians and Spartans could understand each-other too...but could Macedonians and Greeks understand each-other if didn't speak Greek? I mean...how deep is the gap between 2 dialects? If the Gap is huge as to make 2 dialects un-understandable = 2 different languages; and if there are differences but easily understandable = same language in different regions... Teuta, have we not already been over this in the other forum? The Macedonian Dialect was not recognizable to the Athenians and some other Greeks DUE TO IT'S ISOLATION from the others. The Athenians, Spartans, Corinthians, Thebans and so on all had continual contact with each other for hundreds of years before the Macedonians came into the picture. Then the only Macedonians who had contact regularly with the other Greeks were the Nobility, traders and artisans. ALL THE REST were nothing more than pasturalist semi-nomadic herders in the mountains. Their dialect of Greek was UNIQUE to them. So when another Greek heard them speak they could not recognize it clearly as being Greek. That is why when Alexander spoke to his Macedonian men(vast majority formerly mountainous herders) he spoke to them in 'Makedonisti"= Macedonian dialect/language. There are still great differences between spoken and written Greek in Greece today. Written/academic Greek is different from the everyday spoken Greek throughout Greece. My mother could not even recognize 3 girls in Germany speaking Greek when she worked there in the mid 60's. She heard these girls speaking in front of her talking and she knew it wasn't german, but thought it sounded familiar. A few minutes later they stopped at a cross walk. When the road was clear one of the girls said 'Ela Koritsia'(C'mon girls). So my mother out of curiosity decided to ask them where they were from and they told her from a village in central Greece. The interesting thing is that their dialect overall was virtually unrecognizable to her as Greek(proper, Academic) but it was still Greek. This was in the mid 60's, so just imagine what it would have been like 2400 years ago without radio, television, news papers, magazines and so on? Due to the isolation of Macedonian it is believed by many to be an archaic form of Dorian Greek which did not develop with the other Dorian speakers who had contact with the other dialectical groups on a regular basis.
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Post by greekslav on Dec 31, 2007 18:12:24 GMT -5
Dialects are differences in one language. A dialect is not a language in itself.
My father travels extensively throughout Greece. I asked him if he ever had difficulties in understanding any Greeks from anywhere in Greece. He looked at me in astonishment and said that they all speak Greek so why should I not understand them? I agree. Every Greek going to any place in Greece will understand the Greek spoken. Any Greek outside of Greece will understand another speaking Greek. The dialects of Greek are all understandable, even Pontiaka.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Dec 31, 2007 18:19:48 GMT -5
What a coincidence..today I went to get a haircut..and there was an old guy there sitting in the barbers chair.... and he talked this funny type of Greek... I had a slightly annoyed sense in understanding him.... I asked him 'are you Greek' he says 'why' I told him his Greek sounds different..he said 'it's mine that is different..so just when I was ready to tell him to go to hell...he said he was a Pontic Greek... and I said... 'that makes sense now"...
Today it 's different from 2500 years ago when dialects were still young... so this analogy to your father traveling in Greece..is irrelevant.
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Post by grksdied4you on Dec 31, 2007 18:48:13 GMT -5
I don't think the Pontic dialect sounds funny. I THINK IT SOUNDS INSANE. It is very hard for me to understand. I am not sure if that is because I am Greek American but I have a fascination with the Ponti and people laugh at me for it. I watch a lot of videos at the Kefaneio by my house and the owner laughs at me while I watch them on the laptop and asks what do you understand of that!!!
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Post by Teuta1975 on Dec 31, 2007 19:06:55 GMT -5
I understand the differences in dialects. My point is that 2 dialects, though different, are not so distant as to need any translation! I also understand what you mean. Let me ask you a question: why should we be so sure that the dialect Macedons SPOKE is necessarly Greek? As a matter of fact, do we have anything written from it? No! All we have left are many antique historians of that time who addmited Macedons spoke "Macedon Dialect" (Not GREEK DIALECT).... According to the Isolation of Macedons - why not saying that also Illyrians spoke a Greek dialect (either Thracian or Dacian???!!!) or we could also say: Greeks speak a kind of distant Egyptian, or Jewish, or Semit or Hittite dialect, but are distant so the language developed differently. According to my opinion: since the family is Indo-European and branches are different, one language starts getting away from its "Mother roots" and becomes a dialect (still understandable); but when the dialect becomes un-understandable by the "mother roots" then it is ANOTHER language; a different one. Since Macedons and Greeks didn't understand each-other but needed translator to speak what can I possibly assume? You can tell me is the same dialect because there are some common words...but the point is that all Languages have some common words but are not the same. For that reason languages are categorized in families: as to know where the dialects and then languages originated; because one cannot say Italian is a dialect of Spanish or a deviation of Frech! All Historical changes bring to the conlusion that Italian, Spanish, French, Portoguese, etc. belong to Latin family but are different languages. And further more, Italians, French, Portoguese, Spanish etc. are completely different people and nations. As to connect this to Macedonians. The phenomen is the opposite. Here we don't have a diffusion but a fussion of language's movement. So, Macedons had a different dialect (language from Greeks) and after they hellenized (500 BC), they adapted the Greek language (spoken and written), adding the phonetic and some typical sounds of Macedons, thus CREATING a NEW Greek Dialect!! PS: But this is only my opinion.
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Post by grksdied4you on Dec 31, 2007 19:13:48 GMT -5
"So, Macedons had a different dialect (language from Greeks) and after they hellenized (500 BC), they adapted the Greek language (spoken and written), adding the phonetic and some typical sounds of Macedons, thus CREATING a NEW Greek Dialect!! "
So are you saying that if the Macedonians were not originally Greek, they assimilated into Greek culture and are positively the ancestors of modern Greeks? Hmmm.... I wonder why they assimilated into Greek culture so easily if they were so powerful and advanced.
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 31, 2007 19:14:31 GMT -5
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Post by Teuta1975 on Dec 31, 2007 19:20:19 GMT -5
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Post by greekslav on Dec 31, 2007 19:33:36 GMT -5
Today it 's different from 2500 years ago when dialects were still young... so this analogy to your father traveling in Greece..is irrelevant.
But its not irrelevant when speaking of the 1960's!
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Post by greekslav on Dec 31, 2007 19:36:46 GMT -5
Pontiaka is an ancient form of Greek.
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Post by grksdied4you on Dec 31, 2007 23:35:55 GMT -5
"Pontiaka is an ancient form of Greek."
Yes you are correct!!! And when Ponti speak to each other they speak in the Pontic dialect, which is hard for native Greek speakers from Greece to understand. So why is it so hard to accept that Macedonians dialect was different form of Greek but was only a different dialect? Even to this day a Pontian will speak Pontian dialect with other Pontians.
"therefore Alexander DECLARED he was Greek BY DESCENT..."
Bravo!!!
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Post by grksdied4you on Dec 31, 2007 23:42:07 GMT -5
Fyromanian is to Bulgarian as Greek is to Macedonian
Simple math.
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Post by grksdied4you on Jan 1, 2008 16:02:11 GMT -5
"therefore Alexander DECLARED he was Greek BY DESCENT..."
The same goes for the Pontians.
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Post by Niklianos on Jan 2, 2008 18:50:36 GMT -5
Today it 's different from 2500 years ago when dialects were still young... so this analogy to your father traveling in Greece..is irrelevant.But its not irrelevant when speaking of the 1960's! So GS are you saying my mother who was born and raised in Greece is wrong? She is well educated and comes from an affluent family. She has been all over Greece. SHE DID NOT RECOGNIZE IT AS GREEK! The Greek people speak to others of different areas is usually the Greek taught in the schools. Now when I say SPOKEN language I mean just that. Each area even today have their differences. So when a person of a certain area is speaking to another of the same area they will speak their SPOKEN dialect. If they speak to someone of a different area they usually try to speak the academic variant.
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Post by Niklianos on Jan 2, 2008 19:12:01 GMT -5
Teuta here is some information about differing dialects and how they are classified as the same language even though they are mutually unintelligible. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect_continuum"However, they can be seen as dialects of a single language, provided that a common standard language, through which communication is possible, exists." Also aren't the Tosk and Gheg dialects mutually unintelligible, but are still considered the SAME language? There are also variations in Accents and phonetic changes. Ex) P changed for B, or SS changed for TT, etc. All these factors are what make up a spoken language and to some extent written. So even though they may not be mutually intelligible when they are spoken they are when they are written.
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