ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Apr 12, 2010 23:33:00 GMT -5
Nikola, your right, arguing here is pointless, but what keeps me going is to show some people here another side to the story because Bulgarian propaganda has really flooded the internet, hence why people when they first come here they are really sceptical about my version but arn't with the Bulgarian version. The best way is to have a face to face debate where l would pull out sources and show it to their dumb thick heads....and the result would be much different. And you ve failed miserably at your attempts. You rarely post the links to your quotes because they are Serbian, one sided and unrealistic. You are the ultimate Serbian propagandist. The irony here is that your origin is not even Serbian - its indeed Bulgarian (your grandpa thought his language was Bulgarian) and knowning that you are totally antibulgarian. Even half of Serbia (proper one) cast you as Bulgarian Serbian wanna be. Thats why you present distorted facts, propagandist quotes - to proove that the people that resemble you should defind themselves as Serbians as have you. Unfortunately history has proven that those people and your own people both accepted themselves as Bulgarian till recently.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 13, 2010 2:05:36 GMT -5
What sources? Dude, I never got even ONE link from you that I could click on in this thread. Is that really your problem? Go back to the archives and you will find TONES of links by Novi. BUT, the important part is not just some web pages with arguable authenticity and reliability, but the amount of text that Novi typed here, taken from rare books, which are not online. I dont think you are neutral in this regard, or you just haven't done your homework.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 13, 2010 2:39:22 GMT -5
Unfortunately history has proven that those people and your own people both accepted themselves as Bulgarian till recently. 100% correct, as historic places in Southern Serbia from 1850 show:
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 13, 2010 3:40:43 GMT -5
"What sources? Dude, I never got even ONE link from you that I could click on in this thread."
MiG, don't use internet sources, l'm using books that l've found from the state library here in Melbourne. Only until recently l've always at the end of my posts made reference to my sources (books). Whats the point to even post them when you have Bulgari here saying they are pro serbian as an excuse because they cannot even debate it.
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ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Apr 13, 2010 9:10:27 GMT -5
Both the First Bulgarian Empire and the Second Bulgarian Empire were multi-ethnic entities, if they weren’t, then they wouldn’t have been empires. And yes, the First Bulgarian Empire’s borders stretched out relatively far.. it included the whole of Serbia, Albania, Kosova, Macedonia, Eastern Hungary, half of modern day Romania, and modern day Northern Greece. So yeah, there were Serbs within the empire, but they were just one of the ethnic groups.
What the hell are you talking about!? Pazar’s quotes are usually a slab of unquoted, unreferenced text that usually comes from “sources” that he himself hasn’t even read. His quoting of Brailsford is proof of that.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 13, 2010 9:19:32 GMT -5
^^^ Aziz in confusion again!
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Apr 13, 2010 10:41:09 GMT -5
"What sources? Dude, I never got even ONE link from you that I could click on in this thread." MiG, don't use internet sources, l'm using books that l've found from the state library here in Melbourne. Only until recently l've always at the end of my posts made reference to my sources (books). Whats the point to even post them when you have Bulgari here saying they are pro serbian as an excuse because they cannot even debate it. You can find books online via Google (Adobe-like applications). Even old news articles. But I'll leave the arguing up to you guys. I've sort of lost the will to argue.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 13, 2010 19:04:47 GMT -5
^ I'm not sure if they would have these books?, they are very very old.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 13, 2010 19:07:55 GMT -5
"Aziz in confusion again!"
Pyrro, his confused like Bulgarian history ;D
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ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Apr 14, 2010 9:46:15 GMT -5
I keep reading the same shit from Pazar, it's always empty promises of non-existent sources.. it's always blah blah I'll talk about the IMRO, blah blah I'll talk about the Macedonian immigrants to North America, blah blah I'll talk about the Macedono-Bulgarian churches in Canada and the US, blah I'll post 200 sources, blah blah blah conspiracy against Serbia, blah blah world wide agenda, blah blah Bulgaria bought the opinion of all the world's super powers blah blah blah Gyrro hvala brate.
And then in the end, the only thing that he provides are sources that only prove that there was some Serb presence in Macedonia.. but they never discuss the overall population or the country as a whole.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 16, 2010 22:15:47 GMT -5
"but they never discuss the overall population or the country as a whole." We have from a historical point of view, Bulgari only discuss from the 19th century onwards.
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ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Apr 17, 2010 12:08:13 GMT -5
How many times do I have to tell you that these are not Bulgarian sources!?
The ancient Byzantine sources all speak of Bulgaria and Bulgarians in Macedonia, NOTHING Serbian.
The only Serbs were those that were later TRANSFERRED to Gordoservon. Gordoservon was a settlement of no more than 30,000.. those that remained in Macedonia were an insignificant number. The maps you've posted for us a while back show exactly that.
So once more, all your sources are good for is showing that there was SOME Serb presence in Macedonia.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 19, 2010 3:50:42 GMT -5
^ yes, yes, yes all Byzantine sources speak about Bulgars, goodness me, the serbs arrived 150 years before your Turkics.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 19, 2010 5:07:45 GMT -5
^ yes, yes, yes all Byzantine sources speak about Bulgars, goodness me, the serbs arrived 150 years before your Turkics. NEW EVIDENCE!!! Serbs went down to the very south of south of Greece.... kroraina.com/knigi/en/mv/mv_3_21.htm#72Σερβέϊκα (Serveika) in elafonhsi... maps.google.com/maps?q=%CE%B5%CE%BB%CE%B1%CF%86%CF%8C%CE%BD%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%BF%CF%82&hl=en&ei=BSvMS5-yAcvTjAfB-fi5Dw&sll=36.509087,22.978908&sspn=0.071764,0.128059&ie=UTF8&view=map&geocode=FZ8VLQIdXKFeAQ&split=0&ved=0CBQQpQY&hq=&hnear=Elafonissos,+Laconia,+Greece&ll=36.63757,22.977905&spn=1.269452,1.972046&t=h&z=9&iwloc=A btw, its a bulgarian source ;D
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 19, 2010 8:06:11 GMT -5
^ Pyrro, don't worry man, l know Asen is talking rubbish. Soon, we might hear a new Bulgarian theory which states that the Egyptian pyramids were built by a group wandering Bulgars in 1000B.C.
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ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Apr 19, 2010 9:22:46 GMT -5
Once more, all you guys have done so far is shown us that there was SOME Serb presence in the region, which is something we never disputed. However, when you make idiotic statemnts regarding the whole population of Macedonia and then your only backing is some quote that states that there was one mixed Valcho, Greek, Serb village.. well, that makes you look idiotic. Thankfully, I'm happy to see that the only people that support your views on the subject are yourselves along with the occaisional confused Serb.
Heh, using your logic.. should we say that Italians are indeed Bulgarians because Altzek's Bulgars settled in Italy!? They've actually left their mark on toponyms and many Italian family names, however, to make such claims would be as absurd as claiming that Macedonians are Serbs.
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Post by ljubotan on Apr 19, 2010 9:31:47 GMT -5
What is so confusing Asen to the 'occassional Serb'?
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Post by rusebg on Apr 19, 2010 9:42:50 GMT -5
The occassional confused Serb, actually This is what Asen said. And the answer is - Novi's claims. There is no ground for whatever kind of dispute with this man. First, he is totally ignorant and retarede. Second, he does not read other other people reply to him (which is the perfect example of useless effort). Third, he doesn't even read his own 'sources'. Fourth, it takes him about 5 years to remember whatever small historic event. Fifth, what is the point to talk to a person who states that 'there has never been any Bulgarian presence in macedonia'? The bad part is that he has been soiling this place with his repeated boring stupidity for ages and considers himself as some sort of superstar of history which is really a poor mark for the quality of this forum.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 19, 2010 10:07:49 GMT -5
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ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Apr 19, 2010 12:18:54 GMT -5
Ljubotan, Ruse summed it up. But, again, to clarify.. any person, Serb or not, who supports the views of Pazar and Gyrro is clearly misinformed and I know you will agree with that.
Directly regarding my statement, I was referring to the occasional confused Serb on these forums who expresses support for Pazar’s posts, who from what I can tell; only support him because he’s a Serb. They’re not actually interested in the topic much nor do they know much about it.
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