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Post by thracian08 on Jun 1, 2010 12:10:30 GMT -5
Turkish PM Erdoðan calls on world to punish Israel over deadly attack ANKARA - Hürriyet Daily News Tuesday, June 1, 2010 Calling on both the international community and Israel citizens to respond to the ‘bloody massacre’ against a Gaza-bound aid flotilla, Turkish PM Recep Tayyip Erdoðan says the event is ‘a turning point in history.’ In a emotional speech in Parliament, Erdoðan reiterates his support for Palestinians, but tempers his harsh words against Israel by saying that protests should not be extended to attacking Jewish citizens of Turkey Israeli government officials responsible for a fatal assault Monday on an aid convoy “must be absolutely punished by all means,” a deeply emotional and visibly angry Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoðan said Tuesday. Taking uncommon pains to distinguish Israel’s government from its citizens, Erdoðan drew a sharp bead on the country’s decision-makers in a well-prepared speech aimed as much at a Palestinian audience as a domestic and international one. “Today is a turning point in history. Nothing will be same again,” Erdoðan told his party’s lawmakers hours after a 16-hour flight from Chile. The prime minister cut his trip short following Israel’s deadly attack on the humanitarian boats early Monday. Multimedia VIDEO: Erdoðan condemns Israeli raid on Gaza aid ship Calling the Israeli raid on the Gaza-bound aid flotilla a “bloody massacre,” Erdoðan warned Israel not to test his country’s patience, saying, “Turkey’s hostility was as strong as its friendship is valuable.” In his remarks, Erdoðan cast himself in his favored regional role of savior, leader and beacon of democratic rights. Recalling his 2008 spat with Israeli President Shimon Peres in Davos, where he accused Israelis “of knowing well how to kill,” the Turkish prime minister said, “They once again showed their ability to perpetrate slaughters.” “It is no longer possible to cover up or ignore Israel’s lawlessness. This bloody massacre by Israel on ships that were taking humanitarian aid to Gaza deserves every kind of curse,” Erdoðan said. “This attack is on international law, the conscience of humanity and world peace. Israel in no way can legitimize this murder. It cannot wash its hand of this blood.” Emphasizing Turkey’s determination to extend its hand to Palestinians, no matter the conditions, Erdoðan added: “We will not turn our back on Palestine, Palestinians and Gaza, even if nobody backs them. Once again we call on Israel to immediately end its inhumane blockade of Gaza.” Appeal to the international community In his hour-long speech, Erdoðan also called on the international community to respond to what he described as Israel’s unlawful actions. “Statements of condemnation are not enough... We [the international community] should get results,” he said. “The incident was not something between Turkey and Israel, but rather was a matter for the world.” In an effort to create internal pressure on the Israeli government, Erdoðan also conveyed a message to the Israeli people. “These policies [of aggression] are damaging the interests of Israel and your peace and security,” he said. “It is the Israeli people who must stop the Israeli government in the first place. Israel cannot ensure its security by drawing the hatred of the entire world.” Praising the reaction shown by the Turkish people against Israel, the prime minister also welcomed the peaceful nature of the protests and reiterated that Turkey was not a place with anti-Semitic feelings, saying protests should never target the country’s Jewish citizens. Diplomatic campaign at full speed Before his parliamentary speech, Erdoðan held meetings with his top aides and representatives of the country’s security institutions, including deputy prime ministers Bülent Arýnç and Cemil Çiçek, Defense Minister Vecdi Gönül, National Intelligence Organization, or MÝT, head Hakan Fidan and Deputy Chief of General Staff Gen. Aslan Güner. The Turkish prime minister also held a phone conversation with United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon and was scheduled to talk to U.S. President Barack Obama by phone late Tuesday. “I will tell them all my feelings I shared with you in this room,” Erdoðan said in his speech in Parliament, which was covered by a large group of foreign journalists. The Palestinian, Iranian and Indian ambassadors to Ankara attended Erdoðan’s speech to lawmakers in Parliament for the first time; simultaneous interpretation in English and Arabic was also provided in an unprecedented move. © 2009 Hurriyet Daily News URL: www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=erdogan-speaks-2010
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Post by thracian08 on Jun 1, 2010 12:10:57 GMT -5
Israelis can go f.. themselves !
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Post by thracian08 on Jun 1, 2010 12:11:18 GMT -5
Turkey should cut all ties with Israel!
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Post by restless1gr on Jun 1, 2010 12:42:27 GMT -5
What scares me the most with this issue, is that probably Israel had reassured a "backup" before doing this crime, because one can't just go around international sea area attacking civilian ships! ... If this is so, I wonder what the backup is, and what will be the outcome.
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Post by thracian08 on Jun 1, 2010 13:24:14 GMT -5
Well, Israel controls the USA, so USA will always back them up.
It shows to the world the true colors of this country.
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Post by restless1gr on Jun 1, 2010 15:23:39 GMT -5
...and shows for one more time how great suckers we are to buy weapons from the US for the fear of each other...
And it is proven once more that money, baby, is above alliances & wars (of course, we already knew it, but it's good to remember)...
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Post by Steven on Jun 1, 2010 15:57:01 GMT -5
Using humanitarian causes to disguise Islamic extremism is nothing new. For example, in 2002 the Israeli miliary stopped a Palestian ambulance with a sick child on a stretcher. The ambulance driver was smuggling a 10 kg suicide bomb in the vest.
There are now video reports of people aboard the Gaza chanting Islamic battle songs about the army of Muhammad arriving to kill Jews. Al-Jazeera TV interviewed a woman who said that they were hoping for "one of two happy endings: either Martyrdom or reaching Gaza."
Since Israel withdrew from Gaza a few years ago Hamas has been firing thousands of rockets on Israeli towns so Israeli can't allow ships from Turkey, Iran or any other country to deliver weapons to Hamas fighters. Arab-Muslim leaders use these outbreaks of violence to distract from their own illiberal rule.
A video on youtube seems to support Israeli claims that the activists attacked the soliders with stun grenades, firebombs and other weapons. What kind of Human Rights organization goes around mobbing, clubbing, and beating people?
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 1, 2010 16:06:40 GMT -5
Yea, thats a lot of roofs to repair and pot holes to fill in from rocket attacks that are the equivalent of bee stings. Whereas Israel dropped phosphorous bombs on Gaza schools and other civilian structures.
Sad logic. What business did those soldiers have in attacking a ship of protesters on international waters.
The fact is, the Israeli response to the situation was over the top. I admire them for being so open about their brutality, but they are now shooting themselves in the foot. America will be less and less able to back Israel up now. Especially in the recent chilled relations between Obama and the Israeli president following the continued settlements.
Overstates nonsense. Israel is America's chief ally and backbone in Middle East diplomacy and has been for several decades since the Arabs decided to buy weapons from the Soviets. The current situation is the Arabs' own doing. They created a culture of pro-Israeli Americans and set the backbone for the Israeli lobby in America. They played their cards wrong.
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Post by restless1gr on Jun 1, 2010 16:15:53 GMT -5
Using humanitarian causes to disguise Islamic extremism is nothing new. For example, in 2002 the Israeli miliary stopped a Palestian ambulance with a sick child on a stretcher. The ambulance driver was smuggling a 10 kg suicide bomb in the vest. There are now video reports of people aboard the Gaza chanting Islamic battle songs about the army of Muhammad arriving to kill Jews. Al-Jazeera TV interviewed a woman who said that they were hoping for "one of two happy endings: either Martyrdom or reaching Gaza." Since Israel withdrew from Gaza a few years ago Hamas has been firing thousands of rockets on Israeli towns so Israeli can't allow ships from Turkey, Iran or any other country to deliver weapons to Hamas fighters. Arab-Muslim leaders use these outbreaks of violence to distract from their own illiberal rule. A video on youtube seems to support Israeli claims that the activists attacked the soliders with stun grenades, firebombs and other weapons. What kind of Human Rights organization goes around mobbing, clubbing, and beating people? You are joking right??? First of all: there was a greek reporter aboard on mavi marmara, who reported that people were defending themselves.The "weapons" found were ridiculus . Second: the mission was not Turkish, the mission was international. and THIRD & most important: Tell me Steven, did the israeli army used a prophet or a medium who told them that inside a ship of humanitarian aid there were weapons, so this justifies at first place the illiegal INVASION inside international seas area? GET OUT OF HEEEEEEREEEE... think before you repeat the israel crap...
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Post by Steven on Jun 1, 2010 17:42:28 GMT -5
Palestinians would do the same thing if they could. Their ultimate goal is to take back the entire Land of Israel. Don't tell me they wouldn't do the same thing if they had aircraft with phosphorus bombs.
You just answered your own question, they didn't know if there were weapons, that's why they had to stop the ship and check. If they weren't carrying any weapons then why didn't they cooperate peacefully when asked to take their cargo to the Port of Ashdod. What have they got to hide?
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 1, 2010 23:19:20 GMT -5
If you were kicked out of your land by imperialists fulfilling the desire of some crazy biblical ideology, forced to grow up and live inside a giant ghetto where everything is controlled and monitored from the outside, where your land is continually undermined by walls, barricades and no man's lands, where you are under the finger of a people who despise you... how would you feel?
An intelligent Israeli would be very much able to understand the Palestinian situation and extremism... but instead they choose to fuel it. Ofcourse they want their land back, most Palestinians know exactly where their old land was, down to the very tree. Instead they are forced to live in squalor and in despicable conditions and treated worse than second class... at a whim of sick ideologists.
By your account, Jews should too be admonished for the Warsaw ghetto uprising...
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Post by restless1gr on Jun 2, 2010 0:36:45 GMT -5
OK, Steven... To show you what you don't understand I ll give you an example... You are protesting against the unfair policy of your government in a public demonstration outside the parliament. You start walking towards the parliament, and a riot policeman thinks you have a petrol bomb so he attacks you. You start resisting, the officer finds a swiss-knife on you and shoots you. And then he tells your family that he attacked you because he THOUGHT you had a petrol bomb, and he had to shoot you to defend himself from your swiss-knife.
How legal is that: To attack because you THINK that a protester has a weapon??? I don't know what happens in Canada, but here it's unaccepteble...
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 2, 2010 11:17:27 GMT -5
I see, so the protestors acted out of order, when they saw Israeli soldiers illegally comng on board the boat with guns?
I guess they should have got their violins out and started playing the soldiers love songs?
pathetic Steven.
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Post by thracian08 on Jun 2, 2010 11:30:00 GMT -5
Steven, there is absolutely no justification for what the Israeli commandos did.
They had NO right to kill innocent civilians who were humanitarian only to help deliver food and supplies to the people of Gaza.
Get out of your warped Israeli propaganda crap and get real and see what the gov't of Israel is doing.
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Post by thracian08 on Jun 2, 2010 11:40:36 GMT -5
The Israelis are treating the Palestinians just like the Jews were treated by the Nazis.
Also, it is ISRAELI extremism not Islamic you idiot. The whole Zionist concept is a racist extremist belief.
It holds the believe that Jews are the chosen ones - this is their extremism, and b/c they lived in the area of today's Israel biblically speaking, that they deserve to live there now. It also means treating Palestiaians as 2nd class citizens within the country. It means forcing Palestianians to rely upon aid only to live there and living in camps.
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Post by Steven on Jun 2, 2010 17:45:32 GMT -5
Asking the Israelis not to retaliate for the rockets fired on Israel would be like asking the Americans not to retaliate for the bombing of their country in 9/11. Moreover, to ask Israel to let aid through would be the equivalent of asking the Americans to let aid and other support through to the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, which would give them the food and resources to keep fighting. It would be a serious threat to the safety of America. What would happen if America was invaded by Cuba. They would attack Cuba and keep troops in international waters, to protect their country from ships getting anywhere near to America.
I think the UN should step in like they did in the war between the Serbs and the Croats. Permanent troops could be placed on both in Ghaza and in Israel. That way if there is a loss of life to US and UN troops by the Palestianians or by the Israelis we will know who to blame
Jewish people have their roots in Israel. These people need their own state because they’ve suffered more persecution over hundreds of years than almost anybody in the world. Where else would they go? It’s not likely that part of Germany will be given to them. And at least they have some claim to Israel, as the descendents of people who lived there.
What do you think would happen if the Palestian Hamas suddenly gained control of all Israel? They would not simply want equal rights with Jews or to share the land equally. They would probably treat the Jews like second class citizens. Most of them would be expelled to ensure a Palestinian majority.
How come I don't see anybody complaning about Saudi Arabia's extremist religious laws that single out Muslims as the chosen ones? It is against the law to take a bible there and Jews are not even allowed. My sister is engaged to an Egyptian and he has brothers working in Saudi. She cannot go there to see his brothers because non-Muslim women who are not married to a Muslim man are not allowed.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 2, 2010 22:04:52 GMT -5
Have their roots in Israel? Where else they would go? How about that is not the problem of the Palestinians? Its not the Palestinians' fault that Jews suffered the Holocaust. This claim your making is about as justifiable today as any group which somehow had some slight hold over the territory ethnically cleansing the territory because 'god gave it to us'. This is a medieval way of thinking and lacks any human rights values. Its about as justifiable as the Nazi 'lebensraum'.
Its not the problem of the Palestinians that Jews suffered. Jews in Palestinian lived rather well and did not suffer much in terms of persecution. In fact Muslims have a greater history of tolerance towards Judaism than any other religious group in the world.
Sorry to say but nobody cares if Jews have their roots in Israel. This does not justify ethnic cleansing anymore than other right-wing nationalists who advocate it in their own land. In fact Zionism is little more than Jewish Nazism and is riddled with similar ideological rhetoric of superiority and "natural rights". If the world didnt want to give the Jews territory in Germany... the Palestinians have nothing to do with that.
Its not like that at all. The aid was going to Gaza, a territory in which one million people live. A giant ethnic ghetto ala Warsaw. A territory inwhich there are children and women alongside civilian human beings. You mean it would be like Americans stopping aid from reaching Iraq or Iran because the baddies in there might get control. Btw, America did stop foreign aid from reaching Iraq on various occasions, leading to unspeakable number of infant mortalities and suffering on the part of a population that has currently lost a million people. America also prohibited food from being sent to post-war Germans and reduced calory intake of the population as punishment... leading to thousands of unneccessary deaths in Germany. Of course just because America does it doesnt make it justifiable. America does things that are equally if not more despicable.
Look, Steven. You can go to courses here: humanitarian or real politik. These, in this scenario, are very mutually distinct. You can argue that Israel did this out of political necessity and power, but this automatically gives up your "human" argument. Do me a favor, I dont like rhetorically closeted hypocrisy. If you will throw support to Israel, do it in less ideological terms because we can smell the s**t no matter how well you cover it.
I dont see Saudi Arabians colonizing the land of others and then kick an entire group out, force them inside ghettos and then continually bombard them left and right. The Saudis chose the government for their own people and established it with the continual support of the same group that gives support to Israel today. Simple: their system is for their land. These two cases are completely distinct.
Not that I support Saudi Arabia. However the foremost issue with the country is the repressive mentality of the leaders towards its own people, let alone foreigner.
Why jump to such extremes? Palestinians and PLO have long since signed over the vast majority of the land as lost to Israel yet they continue to see colonization in the West Bank and Gaza even though Israel signed these treaties saying that it would stop. New walls are continually being build as well as property and homes being destroyed.
Its all about how you react. Israel reacted to pot-hole creating rockets by firing bombs in territory that killed a total of 1200 people. Killing school children!! How many Israelis died as a result of those rockets? Like 4 or 5? When a Partisan guerilla killed a Nazi soldier, the Nazis killed 10-100 people in retaliation, depending on the territory. I see little difference with these two forms of retaliation here.
Oh and just so you know, America's reaction is considered to be over the top today as well... 1 million Iraqi dead for 3000 Americans in the world trade and 4000 dead troops in Iraq. Not to mention a million Pakistanis forced out of their homes due to US bombing campaigns.
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Post by restless1gr on Jun 2, 2010 22:57:19 GMT -5
Asking the Israelis not to retaliate for the rockets fired on Israel would be like asking the Americans not to retaliate for the bombing of their country in 9/11. Moreover, to ask Israel to let aid through would be the equivalent of asking the Americans to let aid and other support through to the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, which would give them the food and resources to keep fighting. hahahahaaaaa, either you are ignorant or COMPLETELY BRAINWASHED!!! LAST TRY to make you get out of your war-loving mood: Retaliate??? hahahahahahaaaaa.... One DOESn't retaliate for terrorist attacks!!! hahahhaaaaaa... One just looks for the terrorist and asks for his arresting!!! hahhahahaaa..... Let me understand what you are saying: Al Quaeda attacks the WTC and USA attacks ALL Afganistan??? And this is justice, right??? Just like the Israelis attack an international humanitarian aid mission to "retaliate" for the bombings that Palestinians do? If things were as you say, the whole world would be on war all the time. Wake up! Retaliating exists in a war situation. Israel is not in war with Turkey or with any other nation in the mission! duhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! (jesus christ, you lack of common sence Steven...)
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 3, 2010 0:55:50 GMT -5
Steven, Ill admit to you one thing. In this regard, as an Albanian with strong nationalistic sympathies, I have little justification for being so abhorred. If Albania was acting towards the local Serb minorities or Greek minorities in the same way as Israel acts towards the Palestinians, I would wholeheartedly support it (if, of course, we have the same "lack of limitations"). However, what I do not like is people not admitting their ideological and emotional actions by clouding them in self-righteous rhetoric. If Israeli's say "this is our land and we will act like this to show pure reality" then fine, but the fact that it is clouded in rhetoric is unbearable.
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Post by Red Brigade on Jun 3, 2010 10:46:49 GMT -5
If Mr Erdogan thinks that Israel should be punished then he should prepare his army and punish Israel.
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