ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jun 13, 2010 7:30:40 GMT -5
it is relative.... секоја монета има две страни што се гледаат.... така секоја приказна има барем две гледишта...... а на Балканов има многу приказни..... а јас не мислам да се замарам со приказни.... така да ќе останам индиферентен кон оваа тема..... во секој случај што и да се случи... јас ќе знам дека сум она што сум.... Македонец..... работа која може да биде релативна по важност..... зашто најважно е да бидеш човек и да имаш пристоен живо.... а не да исправам криви дрини.... што е што..... бело или црно..... I am sorry for the paragraph above, but my English is not that good to say some thoughts.... it is easier in Macedonian..... but you should understand.... our languages are similar ајде поздрав I understand every single word I think our languages are more than similar... They are just "dialects" of one language... call it Macedonian or Bulgarian.. its the same thing... However I do not think there are two ways to look at the ethnicity of Dame or Gotze
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jun 13, 2010 7:33:03 GMT -5
Ruse, you're doing exactly the same thing the people were doing in this video. It just never ceases to amaze me that you don't see how what you are doing is causing the conflict. Ruse is not lying. No one says you are not Macedonians, its the interpretation of our common history thats irritating and untrue.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jun 13, 2010 7:38:19 GMT -5
What? i just see this ñåêî¼à ìîíåòà èìà äâå ñòðàíè øòî ñå ãëåäààò.... òàêà ñåêî¼à ïðèêàçíà èìà áàðåì äâå ãëåäèøòà Òàêà å, íî êîãàòî íÿêîé êàæå, ÷å å áúëãàðèí, òî çíà÷è, ÷å å áúëãàðèí, íàëè? Êàêòî òè ñåãà êàçâàø, ÷å ñè ìàêåäîíåö. Àéäå, ïèé åäíà ðàêèÿ îò ìåí Ruse said that: You are right, but when someone says he is Bulgarian, it means he is Bulgarian, right? The same way as you now say you are Macedonian. Go drink a rakia on me.
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Post by rusebg on Jun 13, 2010 7:41:07 GMT -5
Nikola..read an independent book about Delchev or Gruev, for god's sake, and stop accusing me for saying something that everyone who is a little interested in Balkan history knows, with the exception of you. Your denial of simple facts is getting embarrassing. Fossil, kakvo ne razbra ot tova, koeto napisah? Pozhelah ti da piesh edna rakija ot men
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Post by fossil on Jun 13, 2010 7:44:31 GMT -5
i wasn't talking about Dame and Goce.... i was talking about the situation..... everyone can get offended in this mess.......
as i said it is relative....
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Post by rusebg on Jun 13, 2010 7:47:56 GMT -5
No, it is not. Because if you hear the noise of rotating bodies in their graves, it is Dame, Gotse and all other revolutionaries who are listening to the histeric anti-bulgarian propaganda in the country for which freedom they fought for. This is where the mess starts.
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Nikola
Senior Moderator
Posts: 1,835
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Post by Nikola on Jun 13, 2010 7:51:44 GMT -5
Ruse is not lying. No one says you are not Macedonians, its the interpretation of our common history thats irritating and untrue. Really? I could have sworn the claims that most Bulgarians make is that we are not Macedonians but Bulgarians. May I ask, for what length of time did we share a history? From when until when?
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Post by rusebg on Jun 13, 2010 7:56:19 GMT -5
From the 7th century until the previous one.
May be not enough for you because of our lack of interest in Alexander and Cleopatra but still something.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jun 13, 2010 7:57:30 GMT -5
we share the same history from 7 till mid 20 century. I didnt saw Ruse claiming you are Bulgarian, obviously you are not, since you say you are Macedonian. However Samuel, Gotze or Dame were Bulgarian.
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Post by fossil on Jun 13, 2010 7:59:01 GMT -5
What? i just see this ñåêî¼à ìîíåòà èìà äâå ñòðàíè øòî ñå ãëåäààò.... òàêà ñåêî¼à ïðèêàçíà èìà áàðåì äâå ãëåäèøòà Òàêà å, íî êîãàòî íÿêîé êàæå, ÷å å áúëãàðèí, òî çíà÷è, ÷å å áúëãàðèí, íàëè? Êàêòî òè ñåãà êàçâàø, ÷å ñè ìàêåäîíåö. Àéäå, ïèé åäíà ðàêèÿ îò ìåí Ruse said that: You are right, but when someone says he is Bulgarian, it means he is Bulgarian, right? The same way as you now say you are Macedonian. Go drink a rakia on me. that absolutely normal..... and nobody do not have problem with it..... the problem is that some people identify self as Macedonians and Bulgarians and do the mess.... i have a friend in my class with half-bulgarian origin (from his grandma as he said to us) and nobody has problem with that..... and we are really close, one of my best friends ...... even if he was 100% Bulgarian.... there is no problem... the problem is created by people who have some interests to be accomplished...... i respect him, he respect me..... that how it is with the other classmates..... actually we don't even care who is who..... what nationality we are.... also as an info we have one Bosniak, one Serbian girl..... and we have a great life together..... so i do not see the problem..... it is just something did by people who do not have what to do with their lifes.....
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Nikola
Senior Moderator
Posts: 1,835
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Post by Nikola on Jun 13, 2010 8:01:40 GMT -5
From the 7th century until the previous one. So why do you ignore the time period before the 7'th century like it doesnt matter? We were we all under Ottoman rule for centuries. Are we not Turks?
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Post by rusebg on Jun 13, 2010 8:04:29 GMT -5
Fossil, human relations is one thing. Historic truth is another. I am not judging anyone's personality here or how he feels or wants to be. But when we are talking about history, let us face it how it really was. Or at least as closest to truth as possible.
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Post by fossil on Jun 13, 2010 8:06:45 GMT -5
No, it is not. Because if you hear the noise of rotating bodies in their graves, it is Dame, Gotse and all other revolutionaries who are listening to the histeric anti-bulgarian propaganda in the country for which freedom they fought for. This is where the mess starts. ah Ruse.... what a mess..... i do not hear anything like that..... i know one thing.... that they will be in my heart till i die as the ones that contribute a lot for Macedonia... you can fell your own way.... it is your right.... i wrote in one post... we must try to use our common values, not to take them as they are ours, to have better relations between us....
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Post by rusebg on Jun 13, 2010 8:07:11 GMT -5
I told you, we are not interested in that part of your history. If you believe such existed, it is ok with me.
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Post by fossil on Jun 13, 2010 8:10:24 GMT -5
Nikola..read an independent book about Delchev or Gruev, for god's sake, and stop accusing me for saying something that everyone who is a little interested in Balkan history knows, with the exception of you. Your denial of simple facts is getting embarrassing. Fossil, kakvo ne razbra ot tova, koeto napisah? Pozhelah ti da piesh edna rakija ot men about the book... that what i say it is relative, not Dame or Goce.... and i do understand you, but the post was broken..... it was this -&%($#%^^*(.... that's why i cannot uderstand.... and for rakija...mhhh.. i would but it is too hot now... maybe later
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Nikola
Senior Moderator
Posts: 1,835
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Post by Nikola on Jun 13, 2010 8:11:06 GMT -5
I told you, we are not interested in that part of your history. If you believe such existed, it is ok with me. Oh that's wonderful, you are only interested in the period of history which supports your claims. I'm sorry but by your logic, I' am more a Turk than I' am a Bulgarian or Macedonian. And so are you more Turkish than Bulgarian. Five hundred years is a long time to hold on to an identity which is constantly denied to you.
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Post by rusebg on Jun 13, 2010 8:11:30 GMT -5
I don't understand what you are trying to say.
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Post by rusebg on Jun 13, 2010 8:14:56 GMT -5
Nikola, you sound like a very confused person. A denied identity and a non-existant identity is two different things. Stop twisting and turning mate. Just several generations ago most of the people in your country identified as Bulgarians. You accept this fact and you stop making weird conclusions and asking strange questions.
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Nikola
Senior Moderator
Posts: 1,835
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Post by Nikola on Jun 13, 2010 8:15:15 GMT -5
I don't understand what you are trying to say. Well, we were under Ottoman rule for 5 centuries. They mixed with us, they shaped our culture, they turned us into Turks. The same way Macedonia was under Bulgarian rule for centuries and they turned Macedonians into Bulgarians.
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Post by fossil on Jun 13, 2010 8:17:11 GMT -5
Fossil, human relations is one thing. Historic truth is another. I am not judging anyone's personality here or how he feels or wants to be. But when we are talking about history, let us face it how it really was. Or at least as closest to truth as possible. why we don't try to be more human, less Macedonian or Bulgarian.... even it is another thing.... and about the truth..... it is relative..... размисли.... ќе видиш .... за кого како... вистината може да биде ралично толкувана и прифатена.... и затоа е релативна..... но вистинската вистина е дека не треба да се замараме со што е вистина ашто не..... туку треба да го живееме животот најдобро и најмирно што можеме и да имаме добри односи меѓу себе..... како другари.... како пријатели....како личности.... како народи.... како држави
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