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Post by ulf on Oct 22, 2010 16:11:22 GMT -5
about music:
I know this kind of music is more frequent in Vojvodina and Slavonia
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 22, 2010 16:16:01 GMT -5
i deny that 60-70% of Srbianci could pass for czechs/slovaks. (look at the football - basketball teams, what else to say here..its so obvious). Going further down to south one could pass from "blonde" villages (around leskovac), from "medium" villages (around vranje) and even really darker villages (around Nish). That's my experience. So i cannot find this 70% you are talking about. Consider those guys en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_national_basketball_team and count the percentage. Then those guys : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_national_football_team and do the same. where do you find this 70%? I dont know that czechs or slovaks or any other is pure slav. (or purer than the yugoslavs) since there is nothing of a "reference" to compare against. And the rogue assumption that they (slavs) came from somewhere north, is not enough to prove that the northern one is, the most likely to be "pure" PS in case you didn't notice, i DONT have a theory. i dont know what to believe. i only know what is false. that's the classic method i have seen in any historical academic paper. (proof by exhaustion and contradiction)
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 22, 2010 16:18:19 GMT -5
about music: I know this kind of music is more frequent in Vojvodina and Slavonia Ok some cool tamburase s' petrovaradina, so what? Did you find ASTONISHING the similarities between Posavina and Crete? or not? As a musician and amateur historian would you let it go like that? Doesn't this video make you wanna fly to Crete to study the music there and the connection with the Jekavica speakers of Posavina region in HR/BiH?
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Post by ulf on Oct 22, 2010 17:09:16 GMT -5
i deny that 60-70% of Srbianci could pass for czechs/slovaks. (look at the football - basketball teams, what else to say here..its so obvious). Going further down to south one could pass from "blonde" villages (around leskovac), from "medium" villages (around vranje) and even really darker villages (around Nish). That's my experience. So i cannot find this 70% you are talking about. Consider those guys en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_national_basketball_team and count the percentage. Then those guys : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_national_football_team and do the same. where do you find this 70%? I dont know that czechs or slovaks or any other is pure slav. (or purer than the yugoslavs) since there is nothing of a "reference" to compare against. And the rogue assumption that they (slavs) came from somewhere north, is not enough to prove that the northern one is, the most likely to be "pure" i am puzzled as to why it is so hard for you to understand simple trivialities. I honestly don't know how do you imagine Czechs or Slovaks, but they are not so light as you probably think. Look for example Jan Vesely: The guy looks typical Czech. If you saw Vesely in Serbian national team you wouldn't even thought if he was Serb or not. Slovaks are a bit different, usually they have more robust face, but like I already said same case like Czechs. And there are at least two sources claiming that large majority of Slavs came from central Europe to Balkan, so naturally that's Balkan Slavs ancestral land. Slavic migrations to Balkan is actually based on this fact or we wouldn't speak Slavic but some Latin or Greek language
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Post by ulf on Oct 22, 2010 17:37:17 GMT -5
about music: I know this kind of music is more frequent in Vojvodina and Slavonia Ok some cool tamburase s' petrovaradina, so what? Did you find ASTONISHING the similarities between Posavina and Crete? or not? As a musician and amateur historian would you let it go like that? Doesn't this video make you wanna fly to Crete to study the music there and the connection with the Jekavica speakers of Posavina region in HR/BiH? As for music I think it has more connections to Roman Empire expansion then Slavic migrations. Ofc, that doesn't mean I wouldn't go to Crete ;D
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 23, 2010 0:26:21 GMT -5
Jan Vesely is indeed what you describe. He looks like a blond Serb for sure. Now what you say about Serbs speaking Latin/Greek, etc... i too think that Slavs came from the North, but there smth that most probably you dont know. Hellenism was f**ked from 141 BC (roman invasion) to 400 AD (Ostrogoth invasion and total destruction of Antique Greece), to 500 AD (Huge Slavic sweeping of all greek mainland and settlements even in the most southern place, (like the village Radovani in western Crete). When Slavs came i doubt there were many Greek speakers in Greece. And if there were i am sure their descendents today live somwehere around Nish or Sumadija. (this 20% you are talking about) (yes i believe 100% that we are not natives here, the byzantines brought us from Thrace or Minor Asia). So there was no chance that a modern vivid powerful and HAPPY nation (the slavs) to adopt smth dead.
That is a theory i believe 100%
Now about the music. This is nothing Roman about it. The same kind of music you can find from the Pontian Greeks. Crete was the place with the least slavic settlements and the least (read ZERO) vlach=roman speakers. Nothing roman about it. Its a huge puzzle for me.
PS Now that i recall, dark colors in genes seem to prevail over blond ones. So if you take e.g. a blond man from Zajecar and a dark lady from Nish, their kid will be dark. But, it will contain the blond gene, and when married with a similar combination, there would be 75% chances of bearing a dark child and 25% a blond child.
Thats why i think that dark colors prevailed in Serbia, in contrast to BiH/Croatia.
PS2 Crete is indeed very nice !!! You should go!!
OOOPSSS flash!!!! THE FOOD!! man!!! The cretan food has many more similarities with the Yugo food!!! You should check this out as well. a huge puzzle for me brate.
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Post by ulf on Oct 23, 2010 5:11:45 GMT -5
Not Roman music. I was thinking it probably was Greek, but made "boom" back then(at some period in history) and expanded in areas north of Greece in time of Roman Empire. Maybe even before Roman Empire. After all, ancient Greece expanded in coast areas of Adriatic sea, so modern Croatia as well
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 23, 2010 5:31:10 GMT -5
^^^ Quite rational, however the "lyra" (smth like your gusla) is found only in Crete, some islands and in Pontos. Nothing like this ever in mainland Greece. My extremist theory is that ancient slavs and ancient greeks shared a lot, linguistically and culturally. So it was easy for Greeks to be absorbed by the Slavs. (smth which never happened with the albs who admittedly had a very inferior civilization compared to the Greek/Slav civilization).
Its is striking to still find common sounds-meanings in ancient greek and russian/serbian words. (after at least 3000 years and 5000 kms of leaving apart)
PS Many have attributed this to orthodoxy-bla-bla... No. it was much older!
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Post by ulf on Oct 23, 2010 5:55:52 GMT -5
I dont know really. It was just my 1st association. I guess original Slavic music would be more like:
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Post by Novus Dis on Oct 23, 2010 8:31:34 GMT -5
^^^ Quite rational, however the "lyra" (smth like your gusla) is found only in Crete, some islands and in Pontos. Nothing like this ever in mainland Greece. My extremist theory is that ancient slavs and ancient greeks shared a lot, linguistically and culturally. So it was easy for Greeks to be absorbed by the Slavs. (smth which never happened with the albs who admittedly had a very inferior civilization compared to the Greek/Slav civilization). Its is striking to still find common sounds-meanings in ancient greek and russian/serbian words. (after at least 3000 years and 5000 kms of leaving apart) PS Many have attributed this to orthodoxy-bla-bla... No. it was much older! Serbs and Hellenes shared nothing in common because we hadn't met until Slavs migrated to the Balkans in the later half of the millennium before last. What Slavs do now share with Greeks is the result of Slavs assuming Greek culture when Slavs were incorporated into Byzantium.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Oct 23, 2010 8:48:56 GMT -5
Pyrros stop your bs with Bosniaks looking like Germans. No slavs anywhere and certainly no people in the Balkans look like freckled pasty skinned ugly Germanics. That is f**king ridiculous. Not even Slovenians look like Germans. The majority of Bosniaks look like Serbs and a very small percentage have a unique Bosniak look you may be referring to such as Edin Dzeko. The great majority of them look like Serbs and I wont take seriously any other suggestion.
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Post by ulf on Oct 23, 2010 9:44:05 GMT -5
I think he was probably thinking about some Muslims like Zlatan Muslimovic, but then again you see such people in both Serbia and Croatia
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 23, 2010 10:24:26 GMT -5
Yes both Dzeko and Muslimovic are faces that in the muslim ranks of Brcko you see like 80%. Ulf, yes you see blond people like them in Serbia in "blond" areas (e.g. Zajecar, Kladovo). However, overall "blond" areas in BiH/Croatia are bigger and with more blond ppl.
Guys guys!!! just take a look at a bosnian show in OBN and then PinkTV "farma". The darker are the Srbianci. Then come the Bosnian Serbs. Then the Muslims and then the Croats. Look at the national teams. I have mentioned that like 10 times and everybody is whistling indifferently on the air! Arsenije brate, some questions: How many times have you been in - Brcko, Gunja, Zupanja, Drenovci (Posavina)? - Novi Sad , Sremska Mitrovica, Fruska Gora (Vojvodina)? - Leskovac, Nish (south Serbia)? - Sofia (Bulgaria) ?
PS My theory (besides serving Serbian unity, although this is just a byproduct) is that slavs from banja luka to Sofia and from Subotica to Bitola share more physical characteristics than e.g. the "swedish" gigantic look of muslims/croat slavs of BiH/HR or the mediteranean or siberian look of the central/eastern bulgarians.
Thats what i have concluded from my travels.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 23, 2010 10:30:23 GMT -5
^^^ Quite rational, however the "lyra" (smth like your gusla) is found only in Crete, some islands and in Pontos. Nothing like this ever in mainland Greece. My extremist theory is that ancient slavs and ancient greeks shared a lot, linguistically and culturally. So it was easy for Greeks to be absorbed by the Slavs. (smth which never happened with the albs who admittedly had a very inferior civilization compared to the Greek/Slav civilization). Its is striking to still find common sounds-meanings in ancient greek and russian/serbian words. (after at least 3000 years and 5000 kms of leaving apart) PS Many have attributed this to orthodoxy-bla-bla... No. it was much older! Serbs and Hellenes shared nothing in common because we hadn't met until Slavs migrated to the Balkans in the later half of the millennium before last. What Slavs do now share with Greeks is the result of Slavs assuming Greek culture when Slavs were incorporated into Byzantium. all signs attest to the opposite theory than yours. Byzantium was a ethnic-less empire. If i showed you the similarity between POLISH and CRETAN words/food you would drop that theory of your. You have been a ground-breaking thinker throughout your presence here. No need to adopt childish theories "made in Paris" or "made in London". Guys until you travel and study by yourselves, you gotta trust the work of a man who did that before you for you.
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Post by Novus Dis on Oct 23, 2010 10:50:18 GMT -5
Serbs and Hellenes shared nothing in common because we hadn't met until Slavs migrated to the Balkans in the later half of the millennium before last. What Slavs do now share with Greeks is the result of Slavs assuming Greek culture when Slavs were incorporated into Byzantium. all signs attest to the opposite theory than yours. Byzantium was a ethnic-less empire. If i showed you the similarity between POLISH and CRETAN words/food you would drop that theory of your. You have been a ground-breaking thinker throughout your presence here. No need to adopt childish theories "made in Paris" or "made in London". Guys until you travel and study by yourselves, you gotta trust the work of a man who did that before you for you. That's because Greeks assumed Slavonic words when Slavs migrated.
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Post by ulf on Oct 23, 2010 12:36:15 GMT -5
Yes both Dzeko and Muslimovic are faces that in the muslim ranks of Brcko you see like 80%. Ulf, yes you see blond people like them in Serbia in "blond" areas (e.g. Zajecar, Kladovo). However, overall "blond" areas in BiH/Croatia are bigger and with more blond ppl. Guys guys!!! just take a look at a bosnian show in OBN and then PinkTV "farma". The darker are the Srbianci. Then come the Bosnian Serbs. Then the Muslims and then the Croats. Look at the national teams. I have mentioned that like 10 times and everybody is whistling indifferently on the air! Arsenije brate, some questions: How many times have you been in - Brcko, Gunja, Zupanja, Drenovci (Posavina)? - Novi Sad , Sremska Mitrovica, Fruska Gora (Vojvodina)? - Leskovac, Nish (south Serbia)? - Sofia (Bulgaria) ? PS My theory (besides serving Serbian unity, although this is just a byproduct) is that slavs from banja luka to Sofia and from Subotica to Bitola share more physical characteristics than e.g. the "swedish" gigantic look of muslims/croat slavs of BiH/HR or the mediteranean or siberian look of the central/eastern bulgarians. Thats what i have concluded from my travels. I know what you mean. My mom's side of family is from Srem - they are all blond. Also I've seen many people when I was there with really light complexions. Then again that's really not very populous area(the same would be true for Bosnia, while Croats are much more significant in these areas). Anyway, I still claim. based on my experiences, that average Serb/Croat/Bosnian person would have brown hair like most of other Slavs, not black or blond.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 23, 2010 21:23:54 GMT -5
Pyrro, the southern serbs are the darkest, darkest are the ones from Nish to Vranje. My family have weird combinations, my dad, olive skinned blue eyed and dark blond hair, mum, black hair, dark eyes and gothic pale skin. Then l have a second cousin 6ft 10 tall dark complexioned (Hair, eyes etc...) while his youngest brother 6ft 2 tall blue eyed and mid blond hair.
I wish aadmin can come here and clarify things here because slovenians, the lightest Vs Vardarians the darkest of ex-yu, but Montenegro, a southern ex-yu state, has individuals with RUFOUS shades and FREKLINGS.....l know people don't believe me but look at SNPA for information!.
Coon for instance said that the reason why Serbs obtained a darker look for a slav people was due to their migrations through Northern Greece into illyria.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 24, 2010 0:07:15 GMT -5
all signs attest to the opposite theory than yours. Byzantium was a ethnic-less empire. If i showed you the similarity between POLISH and CRETAN words/food you would drop that theory of your. You have been a ground-breaking thinker throughout your presence here. No need to adopt childish theories "made in Paris" or "made in London". Guys until you travel and study by yourselves, you gotta trust the work of a man who did that before you for you. That's because Greeks assumed Slavonic words when Slavs migrated. nope, i am talking about ancient greece/greek here.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 24, 2010 0:11:51 GMT -5
Coon for instance said that the reason why Serbs obtained a darker look for a slav people was due to their migrations through Northern Greece into illyria. i believe that too bro. I think loads of ancient Greeks live today in Serbia. I read, Greek speakers were present in Pirot till 1700, when we (ipirots/thesalians) could not form a simple correct greek sentence. (and many still can't)
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Post by Nikola on Oct 24, 2010 4:02:26 GMT -5
i believe that too bro. I think loads of ancient Greeks live today in Serbia. Pyrros, reading your comment reminded me of a genetics map I saved on my hard drive from a few years ago. What you say is actually true. If you look at the map below, you can see that the YG marker (for Serbia), also has many individuals who cross over way down with the GR marker. So, basically, there are Serbs who now consider themselves to be Serbs but are actually of (northern) Greek origin. While GR stretches and crosses over with the southern Italians. The samples for some countries is extremely small (Macedonia, Turkey, Bulgaria, Romania, etc.) which means you can't come to a complete conclusion but, it still gives a good indication of where people stand in relation to each other.
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