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Post by kartadolofonos on Dec 4, 2010 21:50:08 GMT -5
There becomes a confusion with the Arvanites,the Arvanite-speaking Greeks.Other, however, Albanians and other Arvanites.There is a big difference: Markos Botsaris,was an Arvanite-speaking Greek, as all of the Souliotes were. His Greek conscience appears also from the eminent phrase that it said when he went for first time in Heptanisa. "A Greek cannot feel free there where the British flag has risen". The Dictionary he wrote was of the "Arvanite dialect - no of the Albanian - and of the demotic Romeika" (Modern Greek).After all,he could not have Albanian national conscience, because that hardly presents in 1878 with the Ling of Prizren,as an artificial fabrication of foreigner forces and religious propaganda. During the Ottoman domination did not exist any nation of Albanians. The inhabitants of current Albania distinguished by their religion.Orthodoxs were Romios, and they included in the same gender with the remainder Greeks. The Muslims felt Turks, from where the term Turkalbanians came.If we speak for Albanian attendance to the Greek Revolution we should not report the Botsars,Bouboulina and the Kountouriotes,but in the Turkalbanians,those who were used by the other side as slaughterers of Greeks. Our Byzantine ancestors did not report any Albanians in the Balkan. Konstantinos Porfyrogenitos names Albanians a race...of Caucasus. Georgios Kastriotis - Skenterbeis, whom is considered as a national hero of current Albanians, named himself as Orthodox Epirote (15th century).In documents of the Democracy of Venice in the dues of 15th century the word Albanian is interpreted as "Greeks from the Epiros and Peloponnesos",without disputing their Greek conscience. The Albanian national conscience is, undeniably, an allien fabrication, as they prove also different testimonies,that recorded by the Balkanologist Achilles Lazarou. When Italy and Austrohungary, for their own reasons, tried manufacture an Albanian state, so checking the entry of the Adriatic sea, the Turkalbanians raised in Dyrrahion the Ottoman flag. They preferred the Turkish, than the unknown to them Albanian national conscience. Even in the Balkan wars the Muslims of Albania fought and in particular dynamically in the orders of the Ottoman army. Afterwards 1908, many of the members of the Newturk country, that began the persecution of the Greeks,were Turkalbanians.The word Albania means White Country, from the Latin ALBA (white).It is a term with geographic and no ethnical meaning. The term Arvanitis, that concerns the Souliotes, their Hydrians, the Spetsiotes and a lot of the inhabitants of Mesogia, it emanates from entirely different root. From the word Arva-non, a toponym of Notherner Epiros, that we already find since the 11th century in the texts of Anna Komnini. From the Arvanon, that is to say from the very Greek Notherner Epiros, they went down in cities and islands of Southerner Greece Greek populations that spoke the arvanite dialect. That is to say, a dialect mixed with ancient Greek, Latin, Turkish and local Balkan glossical elements. The arvanite-speaking Greeks did not have different conscience from the remainder Greeks. Resembling example are they slav-speaking Greek Makedonian fighters Kottas, Kyrou, Ntalipis etc that fought in Greece's favour against the Bulgarians komitajis as well as the Turk-speaking Orthodoxs of Kappadokia that kept via the Church their Greek character, even if they lost their Greek language. The bilingual Greeks, Arvanite-speaking,vlah-speaking,slav-speaking etc they offer to us characteristic proofs that in the Balkans, at least at the last five centuries,the Orthodox faith - and more generally the religion - shapes the national conscience much more even than the linguistic idiom. The confusion between the words Albanian and Arvanitis is created only in the Greek language, because they resemble the two terms soundly. The similarity is only in the surface. In the substance they differ by far. After all, even the Albanians themselves call themselves as Sqiptars and their country as Sqipteria(country of Eagles).What in common a Sqiptar can have with an Arvanite-speaking Hellene?Perhaps one can understand certain words from the other.But this does not mean that they had or they have the same national conscience. I respect and I comprehend the efforts of politicians and journalists limit the potential phenomena of racism and xenophobia, even if the roots of problems have not been studied rightly, in our society. However something like that does not become with ignorance or falsification of historical truth. All the Heroes who fought against the Turks and Turkalbanians 1821 in the Greek Revolution were of Greek origin and he fought for Greece !!
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Post by laughingriever on Dec 5, 2010 0:05:56 GMT -5
Here we go again.... Attachments:
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Post by shejtani on Dec 5, 2010 4:53:32 GMT -5
... don't you know that back then the terms "Turk" and "Greek" were also used for "Muslim" and "Orthodox" ... ? The catholic Albanians were frequently called "Latins" ..., Do we have to conclude they had a roman latin national identity, national feeling ?? the translation of the teerm "Arvanit" is quite simple I think: Albanian !! Do you need more explanations ?
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Post by kartadolofonos on Dec 5, 2010 19:08:08 GMT -5
thats the biggest bullshit comment i have ever heard! ...
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Dec 5, 2010 19:33:39 GMT -5
the real theory is that they were always there then later a few others joined in during the byzantine times
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Post by atdhetari on Dec 6, 2010 13:20:17 GMT -5
thats the biggest bulls**t comment i have ever heard! ... hahaha arvanoi, alvanoi, arbanoi, arvan, alban, arban
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Post by kartadolofonos on Dec 13, 2010 20:35:00 GMT -5
atdhetari The word arvanitis is of greek origin and it is older than the younger word albanian and shqipitar !
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Post by eaglesson on Dec 14, 2010 12:00:18 GMT -5
Simple question, Why can we understand their language and you cant??? Also why is arvanitika classified as Albanian Language?
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Post by kartadolofonos on Dec 14, 2010 23:43:28 GMT -5
Arvanitika is only classiefied by Albanians as Albanian Language !!
The Arvanites (Greekalbanians) left Arvanon the Greek Land in present day Albania and come to Greece to participate 1821 in the Greek War of Independence to fought together with the other Greeks against the Turks and Turkalbanians. Arvanites are a population group in Greece whose linguistic heritage is Arvanitic, a mixed form of Greek Vlach Albanian Turk and is written with Greek Alphabet .Arvanites are predominantly Greek Orthodox Christians and identify themselves ethnically and nationally as Greeks and not as Albanians.
The Arvanitis produced by Arvonios or Arvonitis, indicating the resident Arvanos, such as Polybius says (2, 11) or Arvonos, such as Stephen says Byzantium. The Arvon was the city of Illyria and the derived or descending to Greece, Albanians were called out. In no part of Greece are Albanians are not called or call themselves Albanians. Because despite the Albanian-language has long been the most conscious of Greek origin. And this for the simple reason: they knew from oral traditions that were all Albanized Greeks Greek language, as is also the most Tosk Albanian living south of Genousos (Skumpin) river, which is the natural limit of the Greek and the Illyrian people.
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Post by terroreign on Dec 15, 2010 1:50:29 GMT -5
^Yes, Arvanites are just Albanized Greeks. Just like Malsors are Albanized Serbs.
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Post by laughingriever on Dec 15, 2010 14:25:21 GMT -5
You've got the first sentence exactly in reverse, and the second sentence exactly wrong. yaknowamsayin? Cha Pow
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Post by eaglesson on Dec 15, 2010 15:24:09 GMT -5
You made me laugh karta, dont u read wikipedia??? And if we are callin it that way not the others, why can we understand it and you cant?? Vlachs and Turks cant understand it either. Krivoshanin you make a point is some way, but thats not understandable for others only for serbs.
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Post by kartadolofonos on Dec 16, 2010 3:20:47 GMT -5
you made me laugh eaglesson ;D i dont need wiki.. !! check out the authentic arvanitic books about arvanites hellenes and albanians to answer your question about arvanites
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Dec 16, 2010 10:25:45 GMT -5
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Dec 16, 2010 11:09:12 GMT -5
You made me laugh karta, dont u read wikipedia??? And if we are callin it that way not the others, why can we understand it and you cant?? Vlachs and Turks cant understand it either. Krivoshanin you make a point is some way, but thats not understandable for others only for serbs. Dont you understand that Karta and Krivosan have albanian blood, both of them claimed that are by albanian origin in old forum and now trying to hide their origin...thats why they claim such ridiculous. Grandmother of Karta still speak arvanite (old albanian).
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Dec 16, 2010 11:16:14 GMT -5
Karta lern and listen arvanites songs (learn from your grandmother)
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Post by rex362 on Dec 16, 2010 11:29:29 GMT -5
^ OPA !
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Post by atdhetari on Dec 17, 2010 12:55:14 GMT -5
wait, karta has arvanite roots?
what is it with these self loathing people, its all the halflings who are insecure about their identity that feel the need to downplay albanians so that they can make a cheap point about being greeks, damn, i really thought karta was a direct descedand of the great leonidas, he turned out to be just an albanian, i feel let down, my entire view of the world has been shattered, karta an alvane? say it isn't so!!!!!
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Post by atdhetari on Dec 17, 2010 12:59:47 GMT -5
embrace it karta!
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Dec 17, 2010 13:00:33 GMT -5
^kiss it
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