Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 17, 2010 5:23:28 GMT -5
^^^ That's BS. I have seen several crowds of albos in Athens, and NEVER noticed anyone above 190cm. In CG,SRB,BIH, even Makedonia and Bulgaria, it is certain that in 20-30 guys, one will be above 200cm.
Montenegrins are known as the tallest Yugoslavs and maybe the tallest ppl in the whole world.
I guess one travelling from north albania to CG would be like moving from a land of dwarfs to a land of giants.
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Post by plisbardhi on Dec 17, 2010 13:15:04 GMT -5
Krivaj, measuring physical traits on a human is about as tangible as it gets. Don't bash a whole science because it doesn't agree with you, you lowly Slav rat. Coon, who studied all Slavs and Albanians, wrote that you guys are Slavicized Albanians. You are just the piece of dog s**t on the bottom of your shoe compared to him. And check out what you wrote before lol I'm not saying that we Montenegrins are slavisied Albanians, but that we are instead mostly slavisied natives and possibly share the same ancestors as the albanians. Read more: illyria.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=crnagoramontenegro&action=display&thread=28848#ixzz18OUipB2u
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Post by odel on Dec 17, 2010 16:29:22 GMT -5
What you have "seen" among Albanians in Athens doesn't really interest me, you're some of the last persons I would have expected to have any objectivity rather than subjectivity. But it's true however, Tosk Albanians aren't tall, neither are Kosovo Serbs. Macedonians and Bulgarians are quite small too. But do have in mind that these people come from the poorest of the poor, this of course does have an influence on them physically. Also I doubt very much that they are shorter than Greeks, Greek shortness is legendary. Also I doubt very much that in about 20-30 guys one of them will be over 2 meters tall, personally I believe that there just are so many that would look 2 meters tall next to a Greek. Shortly: You're short, tallish people look giant to you. www.ssb.no/aarbok/tab/tab-108.html I'll let you look at these statistics, 20-30 guys being around 2 meters is 5-3% being 2 meters+. In Norway it's just 1,5%, and believe me Serbs are not as tall as the Norwegians. There are plenty of Serbs, Bosnians and Croats here, those Serbs I know aren't very tall. The Bosnians and Croats are taller from my experience. Most of the Serbs here are either from Kosova or Bosnia, most Bosnians are obviously from Bosnia but so are the Croats too. Sure, they're the tallest Yugoslavs, what you just presented to me however is not a very sound argument. By your logic Montenegrins wouldn't be related to Serbs either seeing as they are much taller. www.archive.org/stream/TheMountainsOfGiants/Mountains_of_Giants#page/n0/mode/2upcarnby.altervista.org/troe/12-13.htmFirst of, Coon mentions that these mountain Ghegs are just as tall as their ancestors. That means that their situation was pretty much the same for a very long time, living conditions had not improved therefore these people had not grown taller than their ancestors. These people had some of the if not the worst living conditions in Europe, still they were some of the tallest, hence why he called the book "the mountain of giants". Secondly, these people were not from cities and such places where you would have expected somewhat better living conditions. If Coon had gone to some of the cities in the north he probably would have found people taller than these. Thirdly, seeing as a very large part of northern Albania belong to the Dinaric alps there should be no confusion about their tallness. Kosova is by the way basically just a mix of Malsia e madhe, Dukagjin and Malsia e Gjakoves, there is no difference between these people. Finally, I would like to say that the new generation is a lot taller than the previous generations as living conditions have improved. But I would say that my grandfather's generation is still taller than the average Kosova Serb youngsters. As for the genetic connection: blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/hitlers-jewish-genes/ Take a look at those maps, beautiful really, beautiful! Montenegro has just about the same amount of the EM-78 gene as Kosova and Northern Albania has. Actually Tosk Albanians are more likely to be genetically similar to Monteys rather than the Shka from Serbia.
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Post by terroreign on Dec 17, 2010 17:34:38 GMT -5
And then he states Albanians are a big cocktail of Greeks, Vlachs, Slavs, ect! You're purposefully misquoting the eugenicist Coon to further your lies! Ya sheep [/i] Read more: illyria.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=crnagoramontenegro&action=display&thread=28848#ixzz18OUipB2u[/quote]Exactly, the natives being the slavisized-sarmatian Serbs, who legitimately inherited the land which they settled. And Northern Albanians clearly share our Sarmatian origins. And odel, not only are Montenegrins tall, but Herzegovinians, Raskans (Around Pljevlja, Sjenica, Prijepolje, ect). Hercegovina/Montenegro/Raska have always been the Serbian heartland.
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Post by odel on Dec 17, 2010 17:55:23 GMT -5
And odel, not only are Montenegrins tall, but Herzegovinians, Raskans (Around Pljevlja, Sjenica, Prijepolje, ect). Hercegovina/Montenegro/Raska have always been the Serbian heartland. [/quote]
I did not say that Montenegrins were the only tall ones, I'd say there is a great difference between Monte/Herzo Serbs and Serbia/Kosova Serbs, physically that is of course.
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Post by andromeda on Dec 17, 2010 18:13:58 GMT -5
Except that it was full of the aforementioned which is why the Croats and Serbs were invited in the first place. There isn't even a recording of Serbs fighting any of those barbarians , only the Croats. The Serbs just settled in some lands pacified by Croats and reestablished Byzantine authority. Yes , read the DAI again. THE DAI??? Ok i have Dai in its original (in Greek) gimme the chapter/page. Also you should know that DAI is full of spelling errors, the author most probably was ignorant of many things, he was exagerating in other things (the mentioning of the shoes of the "Servloi" is just laughable) and be aware that one of the very few versions of DAI was actually Croatian.... Besides DAI there is a hell of other sources for the early slavs in the balkans... Go read some Florin Curta (the making of slavs). No one should throw a source just like that and expect it to be accepted like a universal finality or smth. Thats totally amateurish (silly, idiotic and turbo-CROAT). Chapter 30 , 31 , and 32. The author or at least recorder was Emperor Porphyrogenitus. I don't consider the DAI a perfect source. ( No source is) In fact , turbronationalist Serbs often try to point to the DAI as an early source for their 'Greater Serbia' until they actually read what it says...However, there doesn't seem to be any contradicting historical accounts to suggest that the Avars and other barbarians weren't present. The DAI is the earliest ( within 300 years) comprehensive recorded account we have of slavic migrations to the Balkans. Of course it can be easily misinterpreted so we should be careful not to do that. It is a legitimate source in general though.
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Post by terroreign on Dec 17, 2010 18:27:21 GMT -5
You do acknowledge that a significant amount of the present Herzegovinian and Montenegrin population descend from the Serbs that fleed from Kosovo after the battle right?
Serbian Serbs are far from the purest of Serbs...this is often recognized amongst Serbs.
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gavrilo
Amicus
Vi ste svi banane
Posts: 840
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Post by gavrilo on Dec 17, 2010 19:51:31 GMT -5
You know what I noticed about all my monte friends? They are either all tall as hell, or unusually short. My friend from Vrbas is atleast 206, my friend from bar 209, yet their two boys are all under 180. No where in the middle.
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Post by plisbardhi on Dec 18, 2010 4:26:32 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken thats legend for the most part and no actual sources exist to confirm this. I think I've read before that certain Albanian descended clans in Montenegro like Bjelopavlic, Vasojevic, and Kuci having started to claim blood from Serb nobility in modern times. Serbs stayed put after the battle.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 18, 2010 5:12:33 GMT -5
THE DAI??? Ok i have Dai in its original (in Greek) gimme the chapter/page. Also you should know that DAI is full of spelling errors, the author most probably was ignorant of many things, he was exagerating in other things (the mentioning of the shoes of the "Servloi" is just laughable) and be aware that one of the very few versions of DAI was actually Croatian.... Besides DAI there is a hell of other sources for the early slavs in the balkans... Go read some Florin Curta (the making of slavs). No one should throw a source just like that and expect it to be accepted like a universal finality or smth. Thats totally amateurish (silly, idiotic and turbo-CROAT). Chapter 30 , 31 , and 32. The author or at least recorder was Emperor Porphyrogenitus. I don't consider the DAI a perfect source. ( No source is) In fact , turbronationalist Serbs often try to point to the DAI as an early source for their 'Greater Serbia' until they actually read what it says...However, there doesn't seem to be any contradicting historical accounts to suggest that the Avars and other barbarians weren't present. The DAI is the earliest ( within 300 years) comprehensive recorded account we have of slavic migrations to the Balkans. Of course it can be easily misinterpreted so we should be careful not to do that. It is a legitimate source in general though. as i said go and get some florin curta. DAI was written in 950 AD. There are MANY sources about early Slavs in the balkans before DAI. PS Point is historically SERBS left their footprint in the balkans. Live with it. I can show you even toponyms from southern/western greece which can prove that. of course you learn history from the "couch" and by written (selective) sources, whereas i try to match what my eyes see with a plausible interpretation of history. in other words, i am the kind of guy who first goes to the index of any book searching for specific proofs, whereas you are the kind of guy who starts reading from page 1, hoping for some greater-croatia signs as the story unfolds. I use books to verify knowledge that i, have personally produced. You rely exclusively on books. We are not equal.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 18, 2010 5:14:58 GMT -5
hmmm just browsed ch.30 as you told me.... Did you notice that the author refers to white-croats as BELO-hrovati and not BIJELO-hrovati some food for thought.... Another problem in what you say.... I didnt ask for the generic chapters about sclavenes, (e.g. in chap. 30, Porfyrogenitos explains how Serbs kicked some serious Bulgar asses back then), i asked about chapter and page. Specific accurate staff, not generalities. SHOW ME WHERE HE SAYS THAT SERBS SETTLED DOWN IN PLACES PREVIOUSLY PACIFIED BY CROATS, AND ALSO SHOW ME OF EVIDENCE THAT AN EQUAL AMOUNT OF THE REVERSE DID NOT HAPPEN AS WELL.
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Post by plisbardhi on Dec 18, 2010 5:20:08 GMT -5
LOL. I feel bad for whoever comes close to equaling you.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 18, 2010 5:21:12 GMT -5
^ shut up albanian troll.
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Post by plisbardhi on Dec 18, 2010 5:26:15 GMT -5
Are you ancient Greek today or Serb?
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 18, 2010 5:35:54 GMT -5
What you have "seen" among Albanians in Athens .... bla bla bla Facts, - Athenenian greeks are much taller than albos. - Athens are FULL of albanians (in some schools half kids are albo) - Unfortunately albos are really short. what i mean : in serbia you can find a lot of short or average ppl. BUT it is guaranteed that one tower above 200cm will show up sooner or later. Thats a rule. The same applies to Makedonia and Bulgaria, and i would bet in Kosovo as well (judging by the monks at decani). OTOH, Albos are not like that. Among the 500000 albos of athens, i have yet to see anyone above 190-195. Sorry.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 18, 2010 8:49:29 GMT -5
Pyrro brate, l will buy the DAI, this is a MUST!.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 18, 2010 10:09:32 GMT -5
Yes bro, do that, and also the book by florin curta : The making of the Slavs. If i could post 2-3 pages, you would be convinced at once!!! He has at least 10!!! parallel sources on the early slavs of the balkans (Sclavenes-->Serbs/Antes) before DAI was written.
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Post by andromeda on Dec 18, 2010 10:35:07 GMT -5
Like?....
.....
...
Florin Curta is a historian , not an actual source from the medieval period. And believe me , I've read some of his work as well as John Fine Jr ( one of my favorite historians), in fact they cross reference each other a lot.
But where are these 'extensive sources?' The only earlier source I can think of is 'De Regno Sclavorium,' a supposedly 8th century chronicle of the Slavic kingdoms in the region but parts of it are found in a 12th century sketchy Chronicle ( Chronicle of the Priest of Dioclea). We have no idea how much of it is accurate. ( I don't expect you to know anything about that by the way , don't feel bad if you don't)
Oh joy , who argued otherwise?
OMG ur so cool it would just be funny if they were Bulgarian in origin though. lol.
So you go by intuition? That's not an objective approach. And you wonder why people laugh at you?
I detect some projection here. Anyway , it is generally a good thing to read an entire source rather than just elements of it in order to get a better perspective. Quote mining is dangerous business.
I can't understand you. Can you rephrase please?
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Post by andromeda on Dec 18, 2010 11:11:19 GMT -5
Meaning what? Belo is 'white' in most Slavic languages ( Country of Belorus for example?). Some slavic languages use a slight variation of Belo. ( Ukrainian = Bilo for example.)
The Serbs never *really* beat the Bulgarians in the DAI. At best it was a draw. Chap 32 even states that the Serbs fled to the protection of Croatia , the Croats won a small spat with the Bulgarians on the Bulg-Cro border ( somewhere around the Bosna and Drina rivers) for them and let them rebuild their homes.
Nobody is making the argument that Cros settled in Novi Pazar or Kosovo. So...
As for the rest: FROM THE DAI
[glow=red,2,300]After they had fought one another for some years, the Croats prevailed and killed some of the Avars and the remainder they compelled to be subject to them. And so from that time this land was possessed by the Croats, and there are still in Croatia some who are of Avar descent and are recognized as Avars.[/glow]
[glow=red,2,300]These same Croats arrived to claim the protection of the emperor of the Romans Heraclius before the Serbs claimed the protection of the same emperor Heraclius, [/glow] [glow=red,2,300]These same Romani having been expelled by the Avars in the days of this same emperor of the Romans Heraclius, their countries were made desolate[/b]. And so, by command of the emperor Heraclius these same Croats[/i] defeated and expelled the Avars from those parts, and by mandate of Heraclius the emperor they settled down in that same country of the Avars, where they now dwell.[/glow]
OK READ CAREFULLY :
[glow=red,2,300]And since what is now Serbia and Pagania and the so-called country of the Zachlumi and Terbounia and the country of the Kanalites were under the dominion of the emperor of the Romans, and since these countries had been made desolate by the Avars (for they had expelled from those parts the Romani who now live in Dalmatia and Dyrrachium),[/glow]
The same thing is referenced in two chapters of the DAI.
And as for the Serbians beating the Bulgarians...
From the same source :
[glow=red,2,300]Again, Symeon sent another army against prince Zacharias, under Kninos and Himnikos and Itzboklias, and together with them he sent also Tzeëslav. Then Zacharias took fright and fled to Croatia, and the Bulgarians sent a message to the 'zupans' that they should come to them and should receive Tzeëslav for their prince; and, having tricked them by an oath and brought them out as far as the first village, they instantly bound them, and entered Serbia and took away with them the entire folk, both old and young, and carried them into Bulgaria, though a few escaped away and entered Croatia; and the country was left deserted. Now, at that time these same Bulgarians under Alogobotour entered Croatia to make war, and there they were all slain by the Croats. Seven years afterwards Tzeëslav escaped from the Bulgarians with four others, and entered Serbia from Preslav, and found in the country no more than fifty men only, without wives or children, who supported themselves by hunting. With these he took possession of the country and sent a message to the emperor of the Romans asking for his support and succour, and promising to serve him and be obedient to his command, as had been the princes before him.[/glow]
[glow=red,2,300]And thenceforward the emperor of the Romans continually benefited him, so that the Serbs living in Croatia and Bulgaria and the rest of the countries, whom Symeon had scattered, rallied to him when they heard of it.[/glow]
^^ Just in case you were wondering how Serbs to be in different lands.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Dec 18, 2010 12:31:13 GMT -5
i have both "Pros ton idion uion"(DAI) and Florin Curta's interesting book in pdf. who want them?
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