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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jun 1, 2011 9:19:28 GMT -5
^^ I still think its funny how you pointed out that Albanians have become just like Serbs. Then why complain about what the Albanians are doing at all? Wouldn't ( Haven't) Serbs do(done) the samething?
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jun 1, 2011 9:20:52 GMT -5
It is true though. I see a lot of Slavic influence among Albanians. The place names are a given but they , kinda like Romanians, have adopted a lot of Slav culture ( and we theirs). Dinaric Slavs are distinct both in genetics and culture from the rest of the Slavs. Influence is a two way street.
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Post by plisbardhi on Jun 1, 2011 16:04:30 GMT -5
^What Slavic culture do you notice in Albanians?
You are right about Dinaric Slavs being distinct from other Slavs. There is virtually nothing actually Slavic about them besides language, and a minor infiltration of Slavic blood which is inevitable. They are in fact Slavophone Illyrians/Albanians (inevitably also some Slavophone ex-Illyrian Vlachs) who where molded into various national identities. Everyone who's well informed enough has come to the same conclusion.
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Post by plisbardhi on Jun 1, 2011 16:13:52 GMT -5
The way I categorize Dinarics may seem chauvinistic to Serbs, but its just an honest approach. One Serb writer refers to them as 'Dinaroids' and strictly refers to each group as either Slavo-phone or Albano-phone to keep things balanced, like different camps of the same people.
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Post by terroreign on Jun 1, 2011 22:03:50 GMT -5
that circle dance many albanians do, that's undoubtedly slavic. the gusle, that's slavic, naming your kids Sokol, Vuksan, or Veselin, that's slavic also.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Jun 2, 2011 5:46:49 GMT -5
Sokol I have heard. Vuksan and Veselin? Get off our d1cks already man. You are sorry.
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Post by terroreign on Jun 2, 2011 5:51:31 GMT -5
who gives a sh*t what you heard? why dont you get off our d*cks and stop naming your kids sokol
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Post by Shqipni13 on Jun 2, 2011 6:02:31 GMT -5
Sokol is not an exclusively serbian name. I hate wasting my time with people who act like they know it all. Its like when I debate and fry my wife's rich republican uncle. He just never gives in. The way you started this thread is full of lies. Albanian muslims during Skenderbeg's time? We copy you? Our expansionist desires are a defense mechanism, while yours are offensive. We just dont want to be f**ked with anymore. A 1389 battle and Kosovë is your Jerusalem? Even Hungarians fought that battle. Where is their claim to that land? Also, not that I really give a f**k about this retarded ass forum, not one Albanian moderator in the Macedonia forum and a Montenegrin has the right to be one?
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Post by plisbardhi on Jun 2, 2011 6:04:21 GMT -5
Circle dance is pre-Slav (I'm sure there are historical references though I don't care to look it up), pan-Balkan. Its present in the Greek islands where Slavs never ventured.
The origin of the gusle/lahute is debatable. Regardless of its origins its playing and accompanied singing is not Slavic. We have the cifteli which we adopted from Turkish stringed instruments and made our own. Cifteli songs are another outlet for Dinaric epic verse. The pattern seems to be simple instruments which allow for a powerful message. If you hold up a cifteli vertically it almost looks exactly like a lahute at a passing glance.
There are a lot of Albs names Renato these days, so what if some names become fashionable. That's normal anywhere in Europe with neighboring peoples.
Can you show me any real Slavic culture that we supposedly have or not? If not try the same with the Montenegrins, you may come to a profound realization.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Jun 2, 2011 6:12:01 GMT -5
Albanians named renato. Serbs named mario. Damn we started using italian names after them. Maybe krivo is right plis.
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Post by terroreign on Jun 2, 2011 6:30:34 GMT -5
Sokol is not an exclusively serbian name. I hate wasting my time with people who act like they know it all. Its like when I debate and fry my wife's rich republican uncle. He just never gives in. The way you started this thread is full of lies. Albanian muslims during Skenderbeg's time? We copy you? Our expansionist desires are a defense mechanism, while yours are offensive. We just dont want to be f**ked with anymore. A 1389 battle and Kosovë is your Jerusalem? Even Hungarians fought that battle. Where is their claim to that land? Also, not that I really give a f**k about this retarded ass forum, not one Albanian moderator in the Macedonia forum and a Montenegrin has the right to be one? shqipni Sokol is a Serbian word, where do you think you got it from, the Poles? And what gives you the idea that Albanians weren't muslims already in Skanderbeg's time? i'm sure you're aware that skanderbeg was raised a muslim before he converted to christianity. how do you know greater serbia wasn't a defense mechanism? against serb estrangement with the collapse of yugoslavia and the relinquishing of serb constitutive status in these republics? plis i made a thread clearly tracing the Gusle's steppe origins, this sort of epic singing style is found in Mongolia and Kazakhstan. Slavs reached the Pelloponese and the islands, they had great impact on the byzantine greeks - i don't know if the fact that they do it help your cause. and in the 17th, 18th & 19th centuries isolated mountain people did not have any concept of 'style' people wore the same type of clothes everyday which represented their region and they named their kids after ancestors or for superstitious/religious reasons.
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Post by plisbardhi on Jun 2, 2011 6:54:50 GMT -5
Stop embarrassing yourself.
What does that have to do with lahuta songs being Slavic culture? The cifteli is most likely derived from around Kazakhstan too, so what?
You're wishful thinking is lame.
You already lost this argument before. Alb, Slav, and Turk (less so in the 'Turk's' case) names were fluid across all three communities back in those days for reasons we've already covered. In the Dinaric zone identities too much like the names were also fluid, including the Croats.
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Post by terroreign on Jun 2, 2011 7:14:29 GMT -5
alb slav and turk names were "fluid" amongst these three communities? that's complete nonsense
you won't find a serb with a turkish name, nor an albanian one. neither would you find a turk with an albanian or serb name.
regardless of this, the fact remains that if named a foreign name in this period it was most likely to be in honor of a past ancestor, which means mixed ancestry.
i think you're embellishing this 'dinaric-fluidity' a bit too far.
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Post by odel on Jun 2, 2011 8:36:40 GMT -5
Guys, there's no point in arguing with Krivo. He is as former members have said too, most likely a joke account/troll. Eitherway, joke account or not, he makes claims that are erronous, exaggerated and are seemingly a parody of the Serbian historical propaganda machine.
As far as the use of Serbian names goes like "Sokol", it's not exclusively Serbian and is used by other Slavic peoples too, it means Falcon and tbh I think it's a nice name. However, concluding that everyone that has this name is a Serb by origin or at least has some Serb blood in him is laughable, by this logic, most of Europe is Latin, Greek or Hebrew even by origin. A person named "Christopher" has some Greek in him seeing as "Christopher" is a name consisting of two Greek words, one the Greek word for Jesus, the other which means "to bear".
Actually by his logic, every Serb with the name "Millosh", is originally an Albanian as it's borrowed from Albanian. The -osh suffix being Albanian and the name being a Serbianization of Albanian "Mirosh" or "Mirush". Of course, even though the name might be Albanian in origin.
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Post by terroreign on Jun 2, 2011 9:09:40 GMT -5
Guys, there's no point in arguing with Krivo. He is as former members have said too, most likely a joke account/troll. Eitherway, joke account or not, he makes claims that are erronous, exaggerated and are seemingly a parody of the Serbian historical propaganda machine. As far as the use of Serbian names goes like "Sokol", it's not exclusively Serbian and is used by other Slavic peoples too, it means Falcon and tbh I think it's a nice name. However, concluding that everyone that has this name is a Serb by origin or at least has some Serb blood in him is laughable, by this logic, most of Europe is Latin, Greek or Hebrew even by origin. A person named "Christopher" has some Greek in him seeing as "Christopher" is a name consisting of two Greek words, one the Greek word for Jesus, the other which means "to bear". Actually by his logic, every Serb with the name "Millosh", is originally an Albanian as it's borrowed from Albanian. The -osh suffix being Albanian and the name being a Serbianization of Albanian "Mirosh" or "Mirush". Of course, even though the name might be Albanian in origin. again, where would you have gotten Sokol from if not from the Serbs? these examples you bring up are of nations who had empires lasting 100's of years and posed the kind of influence that Serbs undeniably never did on foreign populations. i mean think for a second, do you actually believe that you got names like Sokol or Vuksan because you were under a mighty serbian hegemony? serbs were feudal for a majority of the middle ages, they could barely govern themselves let alone other people, this political influence or whatever you're getting at is completely out of scope in regards to serbs. and then the hypocrite shows his true colors, claiming that the -osh suffix is solely albanian. i mean wth is this?
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Post by odel on Jun 2, 2011 11:37:21 GMT -5
No one has argued against the fact that Sokol came from the Serbians to the Albanians. We're just mentioning that it's not exclusively Serbian but also generally Slavic.
The Greeks haven't had any noteworthy influence on most of Europe administration wise, neither does Italy for example have any noteworthy influence on Europe, there's however Albanians, Serbians, even Swedes with Italian names like "Mario" and "Renato". The Serbians did however have an undeniable influence in the Balkans, funny that you're denying that now.
Lol, all of Europe was feudal in the middle ages, feudalism wasn't about the lack of ability to govern, it was about that to hold land one had to work for it, through labour such as farming and services such as going to war when the landlord required you to do so, and etc. In the Middle ages there were no landborders that were defined, and therefore the borders were always changing.
As for Serbia as a state in the middle ages, Serbia was the strongest state in the Balkans before the Ottomans came. Serbia did have a strong influence.
It is a solely Albanian suffix. Bardh-osh, Mir-osh, Tan-ush, Belush (as in the Belushi brothers), voglush and etc.
Anyways, I'm not going to go any further, you're most likely just a joke account, and it seems as if you've lost that small amount of humour that you previously had, you're not as provocative as you were previously, Krivo.
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Post by emer on Jun 2, 2011 18:51:04 GMT -5
lol Krivosh you have -116 smites, everyone hates you
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Post by plisbardhi on Jun 2, 2011 19:44:08 GMT -5
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Post by alb0zfinest on Jun 15, 2011 19:41:39 GMT -5
it's true. first we have serbian hero, milos obilic from 1389, who is glorified by serbs for having fought and defeated turks in return for his life. the albanians just recently now worship a similar figure who defeated turks in return for his life only a century later. eventhough like 90% of all albanians are muslims and their ancestors probably fought this man. then we have modern greater-albania nationalism. the peak truly began from around 1998 onwards until today. meanwhile the peak of modern greater-serbia nationalism began in like 1989 and went on until like 1999. the 'tigers' albanian paramilitary group in kosovo, formed in 1999 to fight serb forces. 'arkan's tigers' serbian paramilitary group formed in 1991. serbian province montenegro declared independence in 2006, albanian province kosovo declared independence 2008. its seems as if much of the albanians' post-ottoman history and condition is shaped by the actions of the serbs. for better or worse. actually the albanians also praised gjergj kastriotis father gjon, who shame on him alligned with the serbs to fight against the ottomans. the term greater albania was way before 1998, it was since the first balkan war. declaring independence is not copying, the people of kosovo did not want to be part of a "savage countrie" y do u think montenegro wanted to split up from Slaveia.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jun 16, 2011 8:09:29 GMT -5
^^ Why do so many Albanian forumers write such piss poor English? A second grader can write more coherently. Does anyone else notice the same thing?
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