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Post by ulf on Aug 4, 2011 10:41:25 GMT -5
Which is interesting because we don't have for Macedonians, beside I don't think he meant to disrespect Macedonians by writing "Fyromians/Vardarians" although its moronic name given by some Greek nationalists to your people That's because Macedonians never invaded your country and forced the name Northern Macedonia on you. Hmm, now just think for a moment what have you said. You clearly want to imply that we seized the Macedonia, but that's incorrect. First Balkan war was all about liberation from Ottomans
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Aug 4, 2011 12:38:38 GMT -5
It really doesn't matter what I think. It matters whether the Macedonians feel like southern Serbs. Aside from a small percentage I think you know the answer.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Aug 4, 2011 20:46:23 GMT -5
Chento, l really don't care if you guys use your offensive name towards us serbs, that is your choice. I speak the truth.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Aug 4, 2011 20:53:21 GMT -5
"Novi doesn't want to offend his Greek 'allies.'"
Greeks are an excellent people, l have nothing against them, only good praise. Tell me now Priso, why should l hate someone who loves me?
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Aug 4, 2011 20:54:51 GMT -5
Chento, l really don't care if you guys use your offensive name towards us serbs, that is your choice. I speak the truth. truth? there is a 30-40,000 strong serbian minority in macedonia. that is it. i believe this number is decreasing too. let's see in this years census.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Aug 4, 2011 22:16:30 GMT -5
"Now that's funny.
Why should he have respect for him?
Its not like chentovist is a famous person or someone Novi Pazar knows well"
Ulf, we know the truth brate, l want to show people here the *truth*, we have a mess on your hands. You cannot analyse and extract truth from warped propaganda, and by travellers who had limited knowledge of the south balkan slavs.
I don't blame Chento, its not his fault, truth has been hidden from his eyes. Information l have at my disposal arn't regulary found on-line, its taken me awhile to gather them from LIBRARIES!
I'll start off with this, there are fresco's in monasteries from kosovo showing the flag of vergina.....why, why did did serbs paint this in their own monasteries?
Read below, lets begin:
"On the majority of older maps [i.e, from the sixteenth century], and of a few later date in which the classical nomenclature was used or which were influenced by this nomenclature, the name 'Macedonia' was confined to the coastal region around Thessaloniki and the surrounding plain-that is, to Campania and the district west and northwest of it to what is now the Meglen basin. The chief towns of this region of Macedonia proper are Edessa (Vodena) and Pella (Podol). At the end of the fifteenth and during the sixteenth centuries, many lands of the Balkan Peninsula, because of erroneous recollections of the classical world, were, mostly by local writers, called Macedonia-EVEN OLD SERBIA, ZETA (Montenegro), ALBANIA, BOSNIA AND HERCEGOVINA." The geographically ill-informed author of the folk poem about prince Kaica places the Danubian town of Smederevo in Macedonia. Two versions of Dushan's legal code, those of Ravanica and Sofia-both from the seventeenth century-calls Dushan emperor of Macedonia. The Sofia version reads: "The pious and Christian Stefan, Emperor of Macedonia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Greece and Dalmatia,' while that of Ravanica says simply: "The pious, faithful and Christian emperor of Macedonia, Stefan." In a record of 1564, written at the monastery of Zavala, in Hercegovina, it is stated that this monastery lies,"in the shelter of Mount Velezh, which is in the Macedonian lands." Bozhidar h-Podgorichanin says of himself that he comes from "the Diocletian lands, in Macedonia, from the town of Podgorica." Certain pilgrims to the Holy Sepulcher, Vukovoj, Gavrilo, Sava, Jovan and Sekule, state on two occasions that they are from "the Macedonian lands, from the land of Zahumlje, known as Hercegovina." In 1569, a certain Jakov says that he is from "the Macedonian lands, from a place called Sofia." In 1615, it was stated that the monastery of Moracha is situated "in the region of Hercegovina, in the western lands, in the Macedonian lands." It was on account of such statements that Vuk Stefanovich Karadzich obbserved that, "all our people's lands are called Macedonia." Heinrich Muller's Turkish Chronicle, published at Frankfurt-on-Main in 1577, contains an interesting passage on Macedonia which reads: "However valiantly the Serbian people fought in Macedonia, the Sultan nevertheless occupied the Serbian towns of Serrai, Strumica, Philippopolis and Veles.....Bajazit also collected a great army against the powerful ruler Marko of Macedonia, which land is the most fertile of all Serbia." The unknown writer who continued the work of Archbishop Danilo, in the section entitled "On the Enthronement of the Second Patriarch, the Serbian Kir Sava, has the following to say: "Of his [Urosh's] empire, Prince Lazar took one part, and the other Vukashin, who, in claiming the kingdom, cared nothing for the curse of Saint Sava, And Ugljesha took the Greek lands and towns. After this, having gathered together, they went out into Macedonia, were killed by the Turks and thus met their end."
As it may be seen, the term "Macedonia" signifies merely a geographical concept which has been insufficiently defined and which no ethnographical significance.
PS I'm sorry Chento, truth must be told.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Aug 4, 2011 22:39:09 GMT -5
"truth? there is a 30-40,000 strong serbian minority in macedonia. that is it. i believe this number is decreasing too. let's see in this years census."
Chento, l think the Serbian population (or self declared ones) will end up assilimated. Listen, the name SERB was frowned upon during the Turkish Ottoman rule and also during the BuLgarski Exarchos period of 1872 to 1912. Anyone who even dared declare his/her Serbian ancestry was immediately captured and sent to the Turkish authorities to be executed for conspiring with Serbia. The Ottoman hated Serbs, why, because they managed to liberate her northern half from them, but the southern half: Kosovo, Morava and Southern Serbia endured harsher punishment from them and the newly established BuLgarski Exarchos.
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Aug 4, 2011 23:23:08 GMT -5
Novi - i don't deny the serbian presence in macedonia since medieval times. i also don't deny the bulgar presence aswell. i however also acknowledge the non-slav presence (ancient macedonian, illyrian, thracian, greek, proto-bulgar, celt, goth etc etc). these have all influenced the dna of today's macedonians. i don't claim ethnic purity, like some on this forum. all i say is that macedonians are an independent slavic nation, with our own language, state and church. we are descendants of all the peoples mentioned above and we carry the name of our ancient forebears, and honour their memory and the ancient kingdom of macedonia.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Aug 5, 2011 6:37:46 GMT -5
^^ chento i agree, except when you talk about ancient maks. Those dudes are lost. There is no trace of them. Most probably the romans/christians/byzantines slaughtered them all, like they did with all the true Greeks. Maybe traces of them can be found today in Crete/Cyprus(even maybe ... in modern macedonia, in the Pontian inhabited places), but NO ONE from the traditional old inhabitants (Greko-Vlahs, Slavs) can claim old macedonians. And even Pontians cannot claim them either, because no one knows where those pontians were originally from.
Studying the case of Greece, we can easily see that western-southern slavic elements of Greece had a huge Serb affiliation. Maybe things are different for central/northern greece but the general idea is that pre-1000 AD slavic presence in Greece was from a stock very similar to todays' serbians, bosnians.
PS
i strongly believe that it is better for orthodox slavs to ally with compatible nations (orthodox slavs) rather than alien totally uncivilized cultures like modern arbano-vlaho-greeks.
Novi don't get fouled by the games of british diplomacy. The greko-serbian friendship is their child, 100%.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Aug 5, 2011 9:00:08 GMT -5
"Novi - i don't deny the serbian presence in macedonia since medieval times. i also don't deny the bulgar presence aswell. i however also acknowledge the non-slav presence (ancient macedonian, illyrian, thracian, greek, proto-bulgar, celt, goth etc etc). these have all influenced the dna of today's macedonians. i don't claim ethnic purity, like some on this forum. all i say is that macedonians are an independent slavic nation, with our own language, state and church. we are descendants of all the peoples mentioned above and we carry the name of our ancient forebears, and honour their memory and the ancient kingdom of macedonia."
Chento, again, l don't want you to get upset, l'm not here to be a smart a$$, l tell the truth. There is NO Bulgar DNA in your region, this is confined only to the modern BuLgari at around 5%, also there is no such thing as a proto buLgarin. My arguement here, and l'm going to be direct, your ancestors are Serbs. Serbs arrived to the south balkans and settled in your region 150 years before a Turkish BuLgar made it to present Pliska in modern N.E BuLgarska. The Bulgarian Empire never transferred people to your region during the first or second empires....why...because it wasn't empty of people, it was just easier to assimilate.
I tell the truth, read the following:
Porphyrogenitus states that Serbs, without meeting any opposition, came to Thessaloniki "and settled near Thessaloniki in a district which was called 'ta Serblia.'"
J.Mikotcy affirmed that in 640 the Serbs spread first OVER MACEDONIA (Northern Greece, not the Vardar/Axios river region), then into illyria.
Schafarik stated that one part of the Serbs unwilling to return with the majority to the north, remained in Macedonia (Northern Greece).
I'm repeating my info here again, but l want to share with you the truth:
There is evidence that among the the Slavs who were transferred to Asia Minor there were some who called themselves Serbs. In 649 (i.e, at a time when, even according to Porphyrogenitus, the resettlement of Serbs in areas outside Macedonia had been completed), the Emperor Constantine III transferred a part of the Slavs from Vardar to Asia Minor. There these migrants founded the city of Gordoservon, the name of which gives grounds for supposing that among its founders there were Serbs. From the seventh to the tenth century, there were five such transfers of population. Between 1118 and 1143, the Emperor John Comnenus resettled some of the Serbs in the region of Nicomedia. Place names of Serbian origin are to be found over the entire southern part of the Balkan peninsula, far from the regions where the principal groups of Serbian tribes had settled. Jirechek conjectures that the ancestors of the Serbs and Croats may have been "those Slavs who, near Syrmium on the Sava River, built boats for the Avars, and who, together with the ancestors of the Slovenes, fought, side by side with the Avar hordes, in the Eastern Alps against the Bavarians, and, as auxiliaries, went over to the Longobards in Italy.
PS did you read my info above regarding the reason why serbs were calling themselves *Macedonian*?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Aug 5, 2011 9:06:57 GMT -5
Pyrro, everybody knows that the people of the region of Vardar river arn't descendants of ancient Macedonians. Pyrro brate, if the English ever did one good thing, then l bless them for the Greek/Serb brotherhood
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Aug 5, 2011 9:09:00 GMT -5
^^^ Also lets take another look:
Ekavica (Serbia-Mak-some parts of Bosnia (e.g. Bijeljina)) vs Jakavica(Bulgos) Sve (Serbs/Croats/Maks) vs Vse(Bulgos/Slovenes) U (Sertbs/Croats/Maks) vs Vo (Bulgos/Slovenes) etc....
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Aug 5, 2011 9:13:01 GMT -5
Novi, just promise me one thing, that the next time that some asiatic-sionist pig, like those byzantines were, tries to do harm to the serb people, like those byzantine prostitutes did to the poor, isolated and helpless slavs (Serbs) of asia minor, you will listen to brother pyrros and not to this pro-roman sentiment you have...
You love greeks? I LOVE THEM TOO!!! unfortunately the main forces behind today's greece aren't greek at all. We are a sioniost-asiatic eastern-roman kind of thing.
I refuse to accept that the ancient greeks were *THAT* corrupted and empty of kindness.
The true greeks suffered a lot by those sionist whores. Just like Serbs/Slavs did.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Aug 5, 2011 9:14:13 GMT -5
Chento, again, i'm not here to offend you and i'm not here to make your life difficult, i'm here to tell the truth. If you feel offended and you want to spite me by siding with the Albanians regarding kosovo, that is your choice, l have no objections.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Aug 5, 2011 9:19:43 GMT -5
Brate, governments are bad for the people, but the people l love and adore, not the governments like today's stinking governments ruling in both Greece and Serbia.
Brate, l know what your saying.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Aug 6, 2011 0:04:13 GMT -5
except that for serbia this gvmt rules for some 10s years, whereas in greece for some 1000s of years. serbs still have hope.
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Aug 6, 2011 5:36:20 GMT -5
Chento, again, i'm not here to offend you and i'm not here to make your life difficult, i'm here to tell the truth. If you feel offended and you want to spite me by siding with the Albanians regarding kosovo, that is your choice, l have no objections. i disagree with you regarding macedonia, but i would never side with shiptari regarding kosovo. kosovo is serbian, and i dislike the fact that macedonia recognized it's independence. ajde pozrav
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Post by Novus Dis on Aug 6, 2011 6:33:07 GMT -5
Chento, again, i'm not here to offend you and i'm not here to make your life difficult, i'm here to tell the truth. If you feel offended and you want to spite me by siding with the Albanians regarding kosovo, that is your choice, l have no objections. i disagree with you regarding macedonia, but i would never side with shiptari regarding kosovo. kosovo is serbian, and i dislike the fact that macedonia recognized it's independence. ajde pozrav Any Serbs/Greeks/Macedonians who attack one another while all our tribes face the Shqiptar infestation should be considered traitors by their peers. Likewise, any Bulgars who attack Serbs/Greeks/Macedonians should be considered hostile elements. There seems to be quite a few Bulgars who have forsaken whatever heritage they may have in order to achieve short term gains.
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Post by Anittas on Aug 6, 2011 7:36:05 GMT -5
Novi, just promise me one thing, that the next time that some asiatic-sionist pig, like those byzantines were, tries to do harm to the serb people, like those byzantine prostitutes did to the poor, isolated and helpless slavs (Serbs) of asia minor, you will listen to brother pyrros and not to this pro-roman sentiment you have... You love greeks? I LOVE THEM TOO!!! unfortunately the main forces behind today's greece aren't greek at all. We are a sioniost-asiatic eastern-roman kind of thing. I refuse to accept that the ancient greeks were *THAT* corrupted and empty of kindness. The true greeks suffered a lot by those sionist wh ores. Just like Serbs/Slavs did. You piece of s**t. The Byzantines have founded the culture in this region. You need a good beating. Now go to the gym, already! You look like s**t.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Aug 6, 2011 19:53:12 GMT -5
Chento, you don't have to agree with me at all, never asked you to agree with me, this is a debating forum. The info l have been posting does come from sources not found on the internet. You can cross check them if you like. I'm not going to be a smart a$$, but for example, the Mijaks and Brsjachi tribes are Serbs, they have Slava's, and the Mijaks for instance once inhabited Albania, they were the bridge between the slavs of kosovo and montenegro.
You don't have to read the following, but its important for you to know:
"Until the emergence of Exarchist propaganda, which was assisted in every way by the Turks, the entire Slavic population of this region (Vardarska) was described as Serbian. This was the situation found by a group of French staff officiers who, with the permission of the Turks, traveled around Macedonia in 1807 compiling a statistical survey of the population. Apart from Greeks, Turks, Albanians and Wallachians, they found only Serbs. They said the following, "The only spoken Slavic language to be mentioned is Serbian ['servienne'], and that not only in the region of Skopje, but also in those of Bitolj and Thessaloniki." As for Bulgarian, no mention of it was made in the survey. Consequently, the language of the Macedonian Slavs over a century ago was called Serbian, and that is a very important point."
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