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Post by Arxileas on Mar 10, 2008 22:24:27 GMT -5
^^post your link to that quote ...or do you not have it? In Skanderbeg's letter to the Italian Prince of Taranto he says: "Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. My elders were from Epirus, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies.""I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?" www.network54.com/Forum/231923/thread/1183528160/last-1184236121/In+Skanderbeg%27s+letter+to+the+Italian+Prince+of+Taranto+he+says... Who was Pyross a Greek off course and Epirus ? ;D He did state his elders were from Epirus ;D
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 10, 2008 22:26:58 GMT -5
Like I've stated before many times, it's not us who are claiming him BUT his Greekness is self evident.............
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Post by tripwire on Mar 10, 2008 22:28:58 GMT -5
^^post your link to that quote ...or do you not have it? In Skanderbeg's letter to the Italian Prince of Taranto he says: "Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the [glow=red,2,300]Albanese[/glow] to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. My elders were from Epirus, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies.""I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that [glow=red,2,300]Albania[/glow] is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?" www.network54.com/Forum/231923/thread/1183528160/last-1184236121/In+Skanderbeg%27s+letter+to+the+Italian+Prince+of+Taranto+he+says... Who was Pyross a Greek off course and Epirus ? ;D He did state his elders were from Epirus ;D Nope, an Albanian..read the second paragraph... "I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"You should learn to read English with English meaning, not Greek.
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Post by Niklianos on Mar 10, 2008 22:35:06 GMT -5
Regarding the greek dialekts, Strabon book VII different chapters(collected) 1.eols were not capable to understand dorichs. 2.Athics used to call dorians as barbarians 3.Jonians were fighting the athenians, believing they spoke pellasgoi. These are mostly correct. The Eols are the Aeolians, Athics is Attics and Jonians are the Ionians. Now the Ionian's fighting the Athenians because they are Pellasgian is the same as the Ionian's fighting themselves. The Athenians and Ionians are the same peoples. Look at my post which I made about the Athenian and Pellasgian connection.As for the different tribes not able to understand each other is not entirely correct either. Those tribes which had colonies and traded with each other had an easier time understanding each other. Those who remained isolated and had no trade retained the archaic form of their dialect which was not affected by the other 'Greek' dialects. You are correct with the Athenians calling the Dorians as 'Barbarian' actually the Athenians considered all who were not Ionian to be 'Barbaric'. This didn't mean 'non-Greek', instead it meant 'uncivilized'. Appianus:---------(Historia Romana)----------- In his book "Historia Romana" it is an article about the Illyrians: "The Hellenes call Illyrians, those people wich live across Thrace and Macedonia from Chaones and Thesprotes till the river of Istria" ;D Atlantis, where are you getting this information from? I don't believe your sources are posting legitimate quotes or at least they are mis-interpreted. Can you provide your sources. I have many of Strabo's books even books VII and do not remember any such quotes. As for the Illyrians they are not the same people as the Thracians and in Pseudo-Skylax 6th century B.C.E geographer who clearly differentiates between the Illyrians and the Epirotes. 64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:KMqtOBh8IdAJ:www.le.ac.uk/ar/gjs/skylax_for_www_02214.pdf+Pseudo+Skylax&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us"27. [ ORIKOI. And the Orikoi occupy [. . .] of the Amanian territory.] And the [Amantians], from Boulinoi as far as here, are Illyrians. And the mouth of the Ionian gulf is from Keraunian mountains as far as cape Iapygia. And up to Hydroëis city in Iapygia from the Keraunian mountains, the stades of the voyage across are about 500, [which] is the mouth of the gulf: and the places inside are the Ionian gulf. There are many harbours in the Adriatic: and the same thing is the Adriatic and the Ionian. 28. CHAONES. And after Illyrians, Chaonians. And Chaonia has good harbours: and the Chaonians live in villages. And the coastal voyage of Chaonia is a half of a day. 29. KORKYRA. And by Chaonia is an island, Korkyra, and a Hellenic city in it, having three harbours by the city: of these the one is enclosed. And Korkyra belongs also to Thesprotia more than Chaonia. And I return again onto the mainland, whence I turned aside. 30. THESPROTIANS. And after Chaonia are the Thesprotian nation. And these too live in villages: and this territory also has good harbours. Here is a harbour, which has name Elaia. Into this the harbour the river Acheron emits: and there is lake Acherousia, out of which the Acheron fiver flows. And the coastal voyage of Thesprotias is a half of a day. 31. KASSOPIANS. And after Thesprotia is the nation Kassopia. And these too live in villages. And these live beside as far as into the Anaktoric gulf. And the coastal voyage of the Kassopians’ territory is a half of a day; and the Anaktoric gulf is a little less from its mouth as far as into the inner end, 120 stades. And the mouth has width 4 stades. 32. MOLOTTIA. And after Kassopia are the Molottian nation. And these live in villages: and they come down only a little here to the sea, and largely into the interior. And the coastal voyage of Molottian territory is of 40 stades." Pay attention to the Chaones which states ' And after Illyrians,'. So as you can
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 10, 2008 22:36:15 GMT -5
"I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
==============
Then it goes even further.
I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty.
He's refering his ancestors on the Greek campain under Alexandros !
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 10, 2008 22:39:21 GMT -5
There is no civil discussions with you then. I guess Greece is next on the list for the West to deal with. LOL why run to America ? When Greece has done nothing wrong on a message board ;D It's a message board dude. .
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Post by grksdied4you on Mar 10, 2008 23:05:33 GMT -5
Tripwire,
Molon Lave
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Post by Niklianos on Mar 10, 2008 23:06:05 GMT -5
Here is the rest of what Herodotus says about the origins of Dodona.
Herodotus's The Histories Book II, pgs.106-107
"About the oracles - that of Dodona in Greece and of Ammon in Libya - Egyptians have the following legend; according to the priests of the Theban Zeus, two women connected with the service of the temple were carried off by the Phoenicians and sold, one in Libya and the other in Greece, and it was these women who founded the oracles in the two countries. I asked the priests at Thebes what grounds they had for being so sure about this, and they told me that careful search had been made for the women at the time, and that though it was unsuccessful, they had afterwards learned that the facts were just as they had reported them. At Dodona, however, the priestesses who deliver the oracles have a different version of the story; two black doves, they say, flew away from Thebes in Egypt, and one of them alighted at Dodona, the other in Libya. The former, perched on an oak, and speaking with a human voice, told them that there, on that very spot, there should be an oracle of Zeus. Those who heard her understood the words to be a command from heaven, and at once obeyed. Similarly the dove which flew to Libya told the Libyans to found the oracle of Ammon - which is also an oracle of Zeus. The people who gave me this information were the three priestesses at Dodona - Promeneia the eldest, Timarete the next, and Nicandra the youngest - and their account is confirmed by the other Dodonaeans connected with the temple. Personally, however, I would suggest that if the Phoenicians really carried off the women from the temple and sold them respectively in Libya and Greece, the one who was brought to Greece (or Pelasgia as it was then called) must have been sold to the Thesprotians; and later, while she was working as a slave in that part of the country, she built, under an oak that happened to be growing there, a shrine to Zeus; for she would naturally remember in her exile the god whom she had served in her native Thebes. Subsequently, when she had learned to speak Greek, she established an oracle there, and mentioned, in addition, that the same Phoenicians who had sold her, also sold her sister in Libya. The story which the people of Dodona tell about the doves came, I should say, from the fact that the women were foreigners, whose language sounded to them like the twittering of birds; later on the dove spoke with a human voice, because by that time the woman had stopped twittering and learned to talk intelligibly. That, at least, is how I should explain the obvious impossibility of a dove using the language of men. As to the bird being black, they merely signify by this that the woman was an Egyptian. It is certainly true that the oracle at Thebes and Dodona are similiar in character. Another form of divination - by the inspection of sacrificial victims - also came from Egypt."
So in this part Herodotus considers Dodona as part of Greece and that Pelasgia came to be known as Greece at a later time after the creation of the Oracle at Dodona. It is also supported by the fact that the women sold to Greece had learned Greek.
So according to Herodotus with support of Pseudo-Skylax the Epriotes were originally Pelasgian who later became Greek, just as the Athenians and other Ionians.
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Post by grksdied4you on Mar 10, 2008 23:07:02 GMT -5
Anyways now that I threw my two cents in, Trip he provided where he found that source. If you would like to inquire about his source you can look it up. I will do it for you and see what I can find. I will post what I find.
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Post by tripwire on Mar 10, 2008 23:10:25 GMT -5
grkdied,
Fila mou to kolo
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Post by grksdied4you on Mar 10, 2008 23:12:33 GMT -5
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 10, 2008 23:14:37 GMT -5
I did this to prove a few things.
1) That is why you scrutinise our history in order to find some missing links which yours has full of gaps. To fill up those gaps YOU need Greek history.
2) To give you a taste of your own medicine, so you know what we get every day with you Albs.
3) See my next post.
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Post by grksdied4you on Mar 10, 2008 23:16:40 GMT -5
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Post by tripwire on Mar 10, 2008 23:23:01 GMT -5
On the Albanian Claim that they have Illyrian names today ISBN 960-210-279-9 Miranda Vickers, The Albanians Chapter 9. "Albania Isolates itself" page 256 In page 271 it is stated From time to time the state gave out lists with pagan ,supposed Illyrian or newly constructed names that would be proper for the new generation of revolutionaries.(see also Also Logoreci "the Albanians" page 157. WTF is that? Pages 241 to 260 was not part of that link, Vlakas. Also, I said what is her source on her claim of names Albanians used. Looking through it, there is nothing about what source she cites for that claim. Get a better source...I already looked through that link...you think I'd write this if it was quoted in that link?
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 10, 2008 23:30:48 GMT -5
Guy's relax.
Tripwire it's preview. No book comes with just 67 pages.
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Post by tripwire on Mar 10, 2008 23:34:07 GMT -5
Guy's relax. Tripwire it's preview. No book comes with just 67 pages. Oh, so you want to lose again...lolol..Can you post her source for the claim you made from her book? Can you post that page? I didn't think so...
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 10, 2008 23:37:14 GMT -5
Your challenging me ? I was only messing with you and this how far it’s gone !
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Post by tripwire on Mar 10, 2008 23:38:19 GMT -5
Fine with me if you concede this contest. lolol
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Post by tripwire on Mar 10, 2008 23:40:41 GMT -5
[ Hey, please be polite. I was trying to be nice and show you where the source was from. Are we moving in the right direction yet? This is how we move closer to answers. Not by calling people vlakas. Just provide the link, and i'll concede this win to you.
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Post by grksdied4you on Mar 11, 2008 0:15:13 GMT -5
I will buy the book, tear out the pages you want and send it to you in the mail.
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