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Post by Niklianos on Jul 1, 2008 16:16:03 GMT -5
there are proven linguistical affinities with romanian(dacian), do you condradict that? Did I say I do? And so what would that prove? Would it prove that you are the descendants of the Illyrians? I would think not. Would that prove you were originally from the Adriatic coast? I don't think so. All that would mean is that you are a good ways away from your original homeland and that you are late comers to the Balkans.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Jul 1, 2008 16:29:46 GMT -5
I have been a member here for over 6 years I have asked intellectual Albanian that have passed from here the same question over and over again to show/tell me where were the Albanians from 250 to 1250 ad.... taking into consideration that someone in the Balkans had a title by the name of Illyrians... and giving them that thankless benefit of doubt ... I have asked them to clarify for me... as to their whereabouts and also at the same time demanded to know as to why did the great Ottomans awaken these people like the rains awaken those African frogs that sleep for years locked in the dry earth ....
This tiny detail ribs my side continuously as to weather you were awaken or brought along as a fly sits on an elephants ass as it moves from forest to forest.... I have shown over and over that Albanians have single handedly invaded Greek islands and committed the first wave of atrocities on the people as the ottomans came later to clean up and sell the few survivors into the slave market.Some say they were just paid mercenaries.... I haven't grasped that angle yet...
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libofsha
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Post by libofsha on Jul 1, 2008 16:33:51 GMT -5
how so? detail the moviments of albanians into these illyrian terrotories, since you like sources pls provide them, explain to me logically and historically how we slipped under the radar into byzantine controlled terrotories in such great number(from asia minor as u claim) without any conflict, explain our indo european languages, if we dwelled so far inland then how do you explain the heavy latin influences in our language, we know, we have accounts, we have historical data about the moviment of slavs in the 7'th centuary into and their subsequent settling in northern balcans, 400 yrs later albanians move deep into illyro-byzantine territory and there not a single evidence of this mass invaders, no wars, no conflicts, no historical testament, explain.....with sources of course,
late comers, i think not, we pre date you i might add, actually most races in the balcans might pre date present day greek hybrids,
you can not study illyrians by excluding albanians, you can not comprehensively study today greece without us, we are an integral part of the balcans, we have left our mark on these old lands and he sooner you rid yourself of this propaganda the sooner you will realise that,
by the way, sometimes i amaze myself how illitirate try to pass themselfes of as godsends, when you asked the utterly retarted question 'what languages has albanian influenced?', as though that is the only way to prove the age of a language, what about the fact that we have borrowed from latin and greek? doesn't that testify to the age?
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libofsha
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Post by libofsha on Jul 1, 2008 16:42:22 GMT -5
I have been a member here for over 6 years I have asked intellectual Albanian that have passed from here the same question over and over again to show/tell me where were the Albanians from 250 to 1250 ad.... taking into consideration that someone in the Balkans had a title by the name of Illyrians... and giving them that thankless benefit of doubt ... I have asked them to clarify for me... as to their whereabouts and also at the same time demanded to know as to why did the great Ottomans awaken these people like the rains awaken those African frogs that sleep for years locked in the dry earth .... This tiny detail ribs my side continuously as to weather you were awaken or brought along as a fly sits on an elephants ass as it moves from forest to forest.... I have shown over and over that Albanians have single handedly invaded Greek islands and committed the first wave of atrocities on the people as the ottomans came later to clean up and sell the few survivors into the slave market.Some say they were just paid mercenaries.... I haven't grasped that angle yet... where were you? its not like you left any sort of a footprint during this age, in fact very little is known of greeks as greeks during that gap, just like everyone else you were overshadowed by byzantine dominance, we all lost our distinct traces, its very simple, if you care to activate the idle parts of your brain, ottomans? does anyone take you seriously, even in real life? we have nothinggggggggg in commonnnnn my pedigree chum!! different features, different culture, different customs, different traditions, different LANGUAGE, different identity, now, greeks on the other hand overlap in many of the abovementioned with the ottomans.
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Post by Niklianos on Jul 1, 2008 17:21:40 GMT -5
how so? detail the moviments of albanians into these illyrian terrotories, since you like sources pls provide them, explain to me logically and historically how we slipped under the radar into byzantine controlled terrotories in such great number(from asia minor as u claim) without any conflict, explain our indo european languages, if we dwelled so far inland then how do you explain the heavy latin influences in our language, we know, we have accounts, we have historical data about the moviment of slavs in the 7'th centuary into and their subsequent settling in northern balcans, 400 yrs later albanians move deep into illyro-byzantine territory and there not a single evidence of this mass invaders, no wars, no conflicts, no historical testament, explain.....with sources of course, late comers, i think not, we pre date you i might add, actually most races in the balcans might pre date present day greek hybrids, you can not study illyrians by excluding albanians, you can not comprehensively study today greece without us, we are an integral part of the balcans, we have left our mark on these old lands and he sooner you rid yourself of this propaganda the sooner you will realise that, by the way, sometimes i amaze myself how illitirate try to pass themselfes of as godsends, when you asked the utterly retarted question 'what languages has albanian influenced?', as though that is the only way to prove the age of a language, what about the fact that we have borrowed from latin and greek? doesn't that testify to the age? Did you not just say that Albanian has a lot in common with Romanian? Is Romanian not a Latin based language? As for how Greek influenced your language, hmmmm, I wonder how that could have happened? Maybe because Greek was the predominant language in the Region? I was not asking which languages has Albanian influenced in order to relate it to an age, but to your direct statement saying that Albanian has influence some of the oldest civilizations in the world. As for borrowing from Greek how does that prove that your language and people are that old? By the way for the wave of Indoeuropeans into the Balkans the Greeks were one of the earliest. It was first the Thracians then the Greeks and then the Illyrians. As for your marks left on the land there is nothing that points to earlier than the 13th century for Albanians being in the area. Of course after that time Albanians have left an imprint on the area, just as every other newcomer has left it's mark. You seem to think that I have a hatred for Albanians and I do not. I am only debating you on outrageous claims you are making. Everything I have mentioned so far is in counter of your claims. But then you attack me for bringing them up as if I was the one first starting it. So what exactly are you saying of the Modern Greeks? That we are hybrids? Oh and I suppose you and everyone else in the Balkans is not? Who exactly have the Greeks mixed with to such an extent that we are no longer Greeks or descended from the Ancient Greeks? The Pontians? The Anatolian Greeks? Who? Both of those groups are originally from mainland Greece more than 2700 years ago. They have retained their cultures and language for those nearly 3000 years. Then in the 1920's they once again were forced to return to their ancestors homeland. They mixed with the Greeks who remained after the Bulgarians, Turks and Albanians had left thus making Greece once more predominantly Greek. So yes there is a small percentage of Turkish, Slavic and Albanian blood in Greeks today but it is so negligible that it does not constitute a new ethnos or people. Once you provide me with legitimate sources I as well will respond with sources. Until then I will use LOGIC to dictate my arguments.
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Post by atlantis on Jul 1, 2008 17:47:17 GMT -5
What are you ranting about? Arvanite Muslims fighting for Greeks? Since when is an Arvanite a Muslim? And since when did Muslims fight for Greece? Are you seriously claiming a museum in Kalamata dedicated to Muhamed Pasha of Egypt?? You really need to seek psychiatric help. Yes there is a museum but it is called the Benakeion Archaeological Museum and it is in NO WAY DEDICATED TO SUCH A MONSTER! Why would they do such a thing for someone who massacred 1000's of Greeks and was given orders to exterminate the Greeks from the Peloponnese? His son Ibrahim Pasha also destroyed Kalamata. So are you going to admit you are wrong and way off line with this one> Nick, Don’t be brain wash please, Mehmet Aliu Statue is in downtown of Kavalla and a few of you know he is arvanitas, Get some sorce and you’ll find he spoke only Albanians and he has hidden plans against the ottoman empire,but was stoped by England an Russia. Till 1770 you’ not find any religion problem in Greace, but after Russian interference make them to point Muslims Turks or whatever you say. There is a pact from January-December 1821between orthodox and Muslims named Union National Alliance. It’s been hidden but still you can find it. Look up Lili Zografiu book: He sad- Orthodox and Muslims we have honor our land. And they didn’t fight for Russian -Greeks but for their own old land. And they were used for Russian Interests in the area . However the whole history tells us albanian =arvanitas were against, influences,they were egoists, conservators and proud no Metter who were in front of them, Russian, Turks, Bizants, American Chinese. And only those people are our ancestors
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Post by atlantis on Jul 1, 2008 18:03:40 GMT -5
[quote author=niklianos board=hellasgreece thread=9062 post=69153 time=1214945969 [/quote]
Can you please give us a single credible source stating that Albanian was a language being considered by the GREEKS for their official language!
[/quote]
Well the real reason is this,but Ill find what you want later on, thats for entertantment;
Alnanian - homerike - neogreek
Sy - o-se - mati
Lesh - lasios - mala
Mi,miu - mis - pondaqi
Are - arura - horafi
Qas,kias - qio,kio - simono
Pune - ponos - dhulia
Kale,kali - kelis-tos - alogo
Krye - krithen - qefali
Re,rete - rea - sinefo
Qen,qeni - qion - sqilos
Lig - lig-ios - adhinatos
Iki,ike iko - fevgo - I can find thousand and more from the gheg dialect
and is not fare to be changed like that,
Apollon is done Shen Ghergj Posedon is done Shen Nikolla Athina is done Shen Meria etc. That was done to real Arvanitas.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Jul 1, 2008 19:14:05 GMT -5
Yeah so what.... you copied it from the Greeks....
How can you be so brain washed as to think that the Albanian version came first?
Prove to me that the Albanian was copied?
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Post by kartadolofonos on Jul 1, 2008 21:17:54 GMT -5
The Present day Illyrians (Peoples of Europe)
Real Illyrians
GreekIllyrians Thracian, Italic, Celtic
GreekIllyrians = Hellenic
Thracian/Phrygians = Hellenic
Italic = mixed Greek Illyrians and Roman Illyrians
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Jul 1, 2008 21:22:16 GMT -5
The Illyrians are dead and buried. Only the strong survive..
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Post by Niklianos on Jul 2, 2008 1:15:21 GMT -5
[quote author=niklianos board=hellasgreece thread=9062 post=69153 time=1214945969 Can you please give us a single credible source stating that Albanian was a language being considered by the GREEKS for their official language! [/quote] Well the real reason is this,but Ill find what you want later on, thats for entertantment; Alnanian - homerike - neogreek Sy - o-se - mati Lesh - lasios - mala Mi,miu - mis - pondaqi Are - arura - horafi Qas,kias - qio,kio - simono Pune - ponos - dhulia Kale,kali - kelis-tos - alogo Krye - krithen - qefali Re,rete - rea - sinefo Qen,qeni - qion - sqilos Lig - lig-ios - adhinatos Iki,ike iko - fevgo - I can find thousand and more from the gheg dialect and is not fare to be changed like that, Apollon is done Shen Ghergj Posedon is done Shen Nikolla Athina is done Shen Meria etc. That was done to real Arvanitas. [/quote] First off those words are not only Homeric, but Classical and Byzantine Greek. Many of the words are still used in modern Greek. So what does the list of words you posted prove about the Albanians or Arvanites being the descendants of the Illyrians or being older than the Greeks? Not much and a lot at the same time. So what could be deduced from what you have posted about the Arvanites or Ghegs? Maybe that the Arvanites were originally of Hellenic stock before they adopted Albanian? Or it could be that they adopted words from the Greeks during the middle ages? The same goes for the Ghegs, they could have just borrowed Greek words since Greek was the predominant language in the region.
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Post by Niklianos on Jul 2, 2008 1:17:59 GMT -5
What are you ranting about? Arvanite Muslims fighting for Greeks? Since when is an Arvanite a Muslim? And since when did Muslims fight for Greece? Are you seriously claiming a museum in Kalamata dedicated to Muhamed Pasha of Egypt?? You really need to seek psychiatric help. Yes there is a museum but it is called the Benakeion Archaeological Museum and it is in NO WAY DEDICATED TO SUCH A MONSTER! Why would they do such a thing for someone who massacred 1000's of Greeks and was given orders to exterminate the Greeks from the Peloponnese? His son Ibrahim Pasha also destroyed Kalamata. So are you going to admit you are wrong and way off line with this one> Nick, Don’t be brain wash please, Mehmet Aliu Statue is in downtown of Kavalla and a few of you know he is arvanitas, Get some sorce and you’ll find he spoke only Albanians and he has hidden plans against the ottoman empire,but was stoped by England an Russia. Till 1770 you’ not find any religion problem in Greace, but after Russian interference make them to point Muslims Turks or whatever you say. There is a pact from January-December 1821between orthodox and Muslims named Union National Alliance. It’s been hidden but still you can find it. Look up Lili Zografiu book: He sad- Orthodox and Muslims we have honor our land. And they didn’t fight for Russian -Greeks but for their own old land. And they were used for Russian Interests in the area . However the whole history tells us albanian =arvanitas were against, influences,they were egoists, conservators and proud no Metter who were in front of them, Russian, Turks, Bizants, American Chinese. And only those people are our ancestors The statue is there not due to the pride Greeks have taken in him, because that is far from the truth considering he massacred 1000's of Greeks in the Peleponnese, but due to his home still standing in Kavala and it being a tourist attraction. Don't confuse the two.
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Post by Niklianos on Jul 2, 2008 1:19:18 GMT -5
Atlantis,
what are you saying here? I do not understand.
"Apollon is done Shen Ghergj Posedon is done Shen Nikolla Athina is done Shen Meria etc. That was done to real Arvanitas."
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libofsha
Amicus
socially inept village idiot who is having a meltdown daily
Posts: 611
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Post by libofsha on Jul 2, 2008 4:45:21 GMT -5
Yeah so what.... you copied it from the Greeks.... How can you be so brain washed as to think that the Albanian version came first? Prove to me that the Albanian was copied? that's ancient greek we have affinity to, not the watered present day toungue you have, who copied who is irrelevant, what's relevant to the topic at hand is that albanians have been there during ancient greek therefoe cannot be some fictional ottoman- planted dwelelrs around 1400 hundreds as you claim
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Post by atlantis on Jul 2, 2008 11:41:03 GMT -5
The Illyrians are dead and buried. Only the strong survive.. It's me.....still alive. ;D Now,you say all the time same refren Where albs were during V||-X||…. At this time, X|| You have to know about Teodor Skodrani, Gheg- Homeric writing, found in Vatican Library, so don’t go more Than X, Anyway we were on vacation during this time…..and what, you think we brought it from China or Caspian sea, Homeric Language…we copy a language which wasn’t in use from anyone. I have Greek friends, but no one is able to understand Homeric. Me as Gheg, very well.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Jul 2, 2008 12:02:49 GMT -5
Keep dreaming with this Homeric language,it's amazing the bullchit you people can come up with to justify your fake history.
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Post by atlantis on Jul 2, 2008 12:09:03 GMT -5
Nick, Don’t be brain wash please, Mehmet Aliu Statue is in downtown of Kavalla and a few of you know he is arvanitas, Get some sorce and you’ll find he spoke only Albanians and he has hidden plans against the ottoman empire,but was stoped by England an Russia. Till 1770 you’ not find any religion problem in Greace, but after Russian interference make them to point Muslims Turks or whatever you say. There is a pact from January-December 1821between orthodox and Muslims named Union National Alliance. It’s been hidden but still you can find it. Look up Lili Zografiu book: He sad- Orthodox and Muslims we have honor our land. And they didn’t fight for Russian -Greeks but for their own old land. And they were used for Russian Interests in the area . However the whole history tells us albanian =arvanitas were against, influences,they were egoists, conservators and proud no Metter who were in front of them, Russian, Turks, Bizants, American Chinese. And only those people are our ancestors The statue is there not due to the pride Greeks have taken in him, because that is far from the truth considering he massacred 1000's of Greeks in the Peleponnese, but due to his home still standing in Kavala and it being a tourist attraction. Don't confuse the two. Nick, I really enjoy the way haw you play around.... 1-Now, you are the first country in the world, keeping a Killer or Massacre person Statue, for tourist or business. Congratulation, I didn’t know that. It’s coming same laugh inside me, but anyway. 2-Lesh - lasios - mala Mi,miu - mis - pondaqi Are - arura – horafi 3-By the way Albanian is first, Homeric second and neogreek third. Like you see the base of the word is same only first and second….. 3- Like a pelasgian I don’t feel comfortable Changing our ancestor God Names with East-North names From Posedon ,which is beautiful and original Name of God, to Sheen Nikola which is a Russian name. This is what I mean. And go here to understand Elements of Indo-European Phonology www.geocities.com/protoillyrian/
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Jul 2, 2008 14:42:44 GMT -5
Funny stuff...at least you make us laugh,Albanian.
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Post by Niklianos on Jul 2, 2008 15:10:00 GMT -5
Once again, those words are not only Homeric but Classical Greek, Hellenistic Greek and Byzantine Greek. So the only thing it really shows about the Ghegs is that at the latest they came around in during the Byzantine period before the Ottomans. Also as I stated before the vast majority of those Homeric/Classical/Byzantine words are still in the modern Greek vocabulary, they just are not used as commonly as they once were. As far as Gheg being used to understand Homeric Greek So you have taken a few loan words from Greek into the Gheg dialect of Albanian and now you can easily understand Homer in it's original text? Thanks for the great laughs.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Jul 2, 2008 15:35:39 GMT -5
Nik.... I couldn't have said it any better... some of these people learned a few words... that we have dropped... wear those funny hats ... and they link themselves to a peoples they have absolutely no connection to.... but we can spend days here trying to make them see the light, they are brainwashed and programmed to believe so..so let them believe it...at least they provide some type of entertainment.
Another thing that I find truly amusing is that they call Arvanites Albanian... that has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.....
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