donnie
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Post by donnie on Mar 19, 2012 17:21:10 GMT -5
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Post by donnie on Mar 18, 2012 5:15:55 GMT -5
I feel now a little dumber for responding to a thread involving Hellenas & Pyrros.
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Post by donnie on Mar 18, 2012 5:14:58 GMT -5
Either that or his Greek/Vlach ancestors worked the lands of an Albanian bey. Who knows, maybe this is the source of his bitter resentment of us, an inherited hatred for a race of landlords who may have had some fun time with his greatgrandmother. Our brothers from Cameria are renown for their frequent blondism, and ironically Pyrros (he claims) is uncharacteristically blond.
Hmm .. = - )
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Post by donnie on Feb 27, 2012 13:41:55 GMT -5
Your argumentation is becoming a contradictory mess. Sometimes you say Skanderbeg sympathised with Venice/had good relations with them, other times you agree with me that their alliance was purely strategic and due to a common enemy. It is far more plausible that he, deep down inside, despised the Venetians, considering her policies. It is a long stretch to read his temporary alliance with Venice as a possibility of him sympathising with the notion of a Republic; perhaps the Sultans too were "good republicans" deep inside during the occasional alliances between the Ottoman empire and Venice?
If anything, he was closer/trusted the King of Naples more, acknowledging him as his suzerain. Meaning he saw himself closer to his own peers than members of a Senate.
All of this is distracting however, because my main point is that your original attempt to shame us for the conversion to Islam by refering to Skanderbeg's stance towards this religion is useless. Skanderbeg would be against many things, including all that is good with a (more) liberal society, where I included democracy. Your attempt to answer this argument is very weak, but even if we recognise the Republic of Venice as a primitive form of representative democracy, it still doesn't make it a liberal democracy. He'd probably be against a lot that is an integral part of a proper democracy, including, if we go by your thesis, an intolerance towards diversity (in this case other religions, in particular Islam). He would, by modern standards, be a bigot and probably a racist. This is why it is naive and stupid to judge modern society from the lenses of a medieval noble. Case closed = - )
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Post by donnie on Feb 27, 2012 7:41:58 GMT -5
I do not have the source now, I remember reading about this a long time ago. But either way, it's all theories really, because we don't have Skanderbeg's will. Whether Donika or some bailiff decided to hand over the citadel of Kruja to Venice doesn't also mean Skanderbeg approved it; maybe, they judged, that there was no other alternative. Skanderbeg had not had the time to assemble a Second League before his death and his son was, I believe, merely fourteen years old. Fearing for her son's life, she left for Italy and left the citadel to the strongest. It's not so much that she had the powers to decide anything, rather than she having the alternative to leave the land and being forced to forfeit her son's legal possesions to somebody else.
Either way, now I see you changed your words and concede that Skanderbeg, in the case of him actually handing over Kruja to Venice in his will, did not necessarily do it because he thought well of Venice. Wasn't your whole point precisely that, that he sympathised with the Republic and that was why he made the decision? This is the same Republic he fought a war with over the possesion of the fortress of Dagnum. The same Republic which urged the Turks to attack Skanderbeg while he laid siege on Dagnum, falling on his back. The same Republic which supplied the Turks with material and food during their campaigns in our lands and hindered funds being disbursed to aid Skanderbeg.
Weak case you're presenting Ani!
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Post by donnie on Feb 27, 2012 6:37:51 GMT -5
Did his wife have the authority of taking such a decission? Apart from Irene of the Byzantine Empire, who was some kind of nutcase, I don't think the queens of the Medieval in our part of the world held much authority in state affairs. I believe she had the power and authority, as she was the mother of Skanderbeg's son and heir. And if it wasn't she, somebody else powerful enough did it, not necessarily with the blessings of Skanderbeg. Skanderbeg's actions in the final stage of his life, such as his attempt to give new life to the League of Lezhe, suggests he saw the future of his land in the hands of the League, not Venice. In fact, I don't see any reason why Skanderbeg would trust Venice, considering their history together. Venice was a main obstacle to Skanderbeg receiving much needed funds from Italy and the Pope as late as 1466 (he died two years later), during the Second Siege of Kruja (the Pope was a Venetian by origin). It seems that the establishment of Venetian power in Kruje and elsewhere came about as it proved the only power capable to fill the vacuum left by Skanderbeg. Either way, the only reason I see Skanderbeg trusting Kruje and his lands to Venice, is that he thought "better them than the Turks", not bcs he believed it was a power for good or that he believed in the idea of the Republic. The politics of Venice proved her to be a w**re in Skanderbeg's, I am confident of this much.
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Post by donnie on Feb 27, 2012 3:47:23 GMT -5
"So it seems" does not sound very persuasive. I have read another version which says that the decision to hand over the control of Kruja to Venetian hands was not the decision of Skanderbeg but that of his wife Donika, after his death, She feared for her very young son and thought it best to leave for Italy and hand over control to the Venetians, as they were thought powerful enough to continue the defence of Kruja.
There's a stretch between either of those variants and the idea that Skanderbeg secretly loved the Republican idea and consequently wouldn't oppose a modern democracy = - )
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Post by donnie on Feb 27, 2012 3:30:21 GMT -5
Uz conveniently leaves out that the article is written by one Serge Trifkovic, known for recycling the traditional Serb arguments against Kosova.
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Post by donnie on Feb 24, 2012 12:20:48 GMT -5
Please be serious. My arguement was that he entrusted Venice with the fate of his people, therefore he trusted their ability. And don't be silly. Everyone knows that democracy can only work in certain conditions, not when the Turk attacks you from all sides and you can barely repell him. When did he trust Venice with the fate of his people?
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Post by donnie on Feb 23, 2012 8:21:16 GMT -5
I went and met with my grandfather again to clarify; My great grandfather's name was Prec Koleci (son of Kol Koleci), and he came from Albania. Most Albanians in Klezna are apparently all originally from Mirdita because they're all related. So; KOLECI was changed to KOLEVIC. (sorry for the confusion, my grandfather doesn't speak English very well lol) I really appreciate all of your help! Thank you! Daniel Jon p.s. Just a small question. In Albania, if people from nearby villages have the same surname (i.e. in Mirdita & also Hoti) are they related, or share a common ancestor, or is it just coincidence? The name Kolec is a variant of Kole, which is the Albanian diminutive of Nikolla or Nicholas. It is probably not uncommon in Malësia (where Hoti is included) and Mirdita. Whether the same surname signifies shared ancestry I am not certain, because as a patronym, the name Koleci I suspect is rather widespread, much like Johnson in the Anglosaxon world. But it could mean shared ancestry, someone from Hoti and Mirdita should answer that. You could ask MurlaniHotit, he is a member of these forums and from Hoti with extensive knowledge on the genealogy of Hoti. Perhaps some Hotjan named Koleci moved to Mirdita and from there to Klezna or the other way around, people did move back then just as today. In Kosova for example a lot of people trace their origins to Mirdita, they're commonly called "Fandë" and have typical Mirditor surnames like Spaçi, Kaçinari, Mirdita, Kushneni, Kçira etc.
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Post by donnie on Feb 23, 2012 7:59:39 GMT -5
I posted that reply in the wrong thread. Anyways, I don't feel like explaining all of that... Yeah, Venice was a Republic and not a Democracy, but it worked under certain principles known to Democray (or Representative Democracy, as we know it); just like early Roman Republic worked under certain principles recognizable to our form of goverment. Skander's beef was Venice was temporary; afterall, he entrusted Albania to Venice. I interpret that as he believed in their system and their anti-Ottoman political stand. Now stop trying to ruin his image! That is a really curious conclusion that Skanderbeg "believed" in the Venetian system because they were temporary allies!? It's like arguing Churchill secretly sympathised with the Bolsheviks and their ideology because of his wartime alliance with Stalin. If Skanderbeg wanted a republic, he'd institute one. But he didn't. He was a closer ally to Naples, which was a monarchy. In fact it became a logical step following the Republic's unwillingness to participate in a war against the Ottomans, the Venetians were mosty concerned with upholding their trading privileges.
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Post by donnie on Feb 22, 2012 18:56:52 GMT -5
There's a lot of things Skanderbeg wouldve disaproved of with our modern society. Besides the presence of Islam, being a man who lived in the Middle Age, he'd also oppose democracy, some or many basic human rights we take for granted, the presence of a more liberal lifestyle, the freedom to pursue your own destiny and so forth. He was a man of a different era, to hold him as a rolemodel for today or the future is not sound, because why stop at religion? Why not reintroduce feudalism and all which goes along with it? Sometimes, heroes aren't so much heroes because of what they personally believed in, which is difficult to discern in Skanderbeg's case because there's still much we don't know of him. They are heroes because of their actions; Skanderbeg was a leader with martial qualities admired in our culture and provided a symbol of unity during our national awakening. That to us is more important than his religious conviction and beliefs, which I believe were quite pragmatic (understandably considering his situation). By all accounts his family was Orthodox as was he upon birth, which is confirmed by his father's donations to Orthodox monasteries. But he was buried in a Catholic Cathedral, that of St Nicholas in Lezha, suggesting he had abandoned Orthodoxy in his alignment with Western forces and the Pope, becoming a Catholic more or less. I was thinking in the same lines, some 5 years ago; but that is the wrong way of reasoning. It all comes down to the character of the man. If he was somehow progressive for his time, he would accept such changes. I don't think Skanderbeg would condemn the form of democracy, even with its imperfections. Don't forget that his ally, Venice, was a republic, so he wasn't unfamiliar with the principles of democracy. I believe Skanderbeg would be proud that the country he fought for was independent, somehow progressive and hailed him as their hero. Upon looking at Kosovo, he would probably scratch his head a little, but now I'm digressing! In which sense was Skanderbeg a progressive for his time? Because Venice was a republic? That doesn't mean Venice was a democracy. Nor does it mean he approved of their form of government. Nor was their alliance smth continuous, in fact Skanderbeg even fought a war with them over the castle of Danje, defeating a Venetian army in 1448 under the command of one Daniel Juric.
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Post by donnie on Feb 22, 2012 6:01:32 GMT -5
To prove my love to the Albanian race, I've decided to start one of the coolest threads made on the subject of Skanderbeg, on Illyria. Here's something I bet none of you knew. In Romanian, "skanderbeg" (alternative: skandenberg) means to armwrestle; and the word is derived from the historical character of Skanderbeg. Source 1: dexonline.ro/definitie/skanderbegSource 2: www.romlit.ro/skandenberg_/_skanderbegIt should be noted that the word is a neologism which, according to the speculation the second source, was probably introduced after WW2. The second source mentions a German WW2 contigent named SS Skanderbeg and in the 80s, in Romania, there was a popular Albanian brandy called Skanderbeg. Both of these things may have helped making the word more popular. If we turn to history, as you all know, Skanderbeg was initially in the service of the Porte, before he renounced Islam and converted to Catholicism. With this I want to bring to your attention, in case some of you have forgotten, what Skanderbeg thought of Albanians who converted to Islam. And what better example than not to mention the incident he had with his nephew? Source: Mehmed the Conqueror and His Time. Babinger, Franz. ISBN 0-691-01078-1 page 261; The Ottomans on the Adriatic I will leave the interpretation to you, although it is no secret what Skanderbeg, the great Albanian Hero, wanted his people to be. So as you see, I have manifested by love for the Albanian race on many ocassions; and I have paid homage to your national hero accordingly. This is in contrast to what some of you have said of a certain leader dear to my heart. I won't mention the aggressor's name, because I don't want conflict; but needless to say, he is a Kosovarë. There's a lot of things Skanderbeg wouldve disaproved of with our modern society. Besides the presence of Islam, being a man who lived in the Middle Age, he'd also oppose democracy, some or many basic human rights we take for granted, the presence of a more liberal lifestyle, the freedom to pursue your own destiny and so forth. He was a man of a different era, to hold him as a rolemodel for today or the future is not sound, because why stop at religion? Why not reintroduce feudalism and all which goes along with it? Sometimes, heroes aren't so much heroes because of what they personally believed in, which is difficult to discern in Skanderbeg's case because there's still much we don't know of him. They are heroes because of their actions; Skanderbeg was a leader with martial qualities admired in our culture and provided a symbol of unity during our national awakening. That to us is more important than his religious conviction and beliefs, which I believe were quite pragmatic (understandably considering his situation). By all accounts his family was Orthodox as was he upon birth, which is confirmed by his father's donations to Orthodox monasteries. But he was buried in a Catholic Cathedral, that of St Nicholas in Lezha, suggesting he had abandoned Orthodoxy in his alignment with Western forces and the Pope, becoming a Catholic more or less.
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Post by donnie on Feb 22, 2012 5:49:29 GMT -5
Yup, in particular in the territories of Attica, Boeotia, Northeast Peloponessus and around the isthmus of Corinth, the island of Euboea, Spetses, Hydra & Salamina. A significant portion of displaced Arberesh fled directly from Greece and settled in Sicily and Calabria, as is testified by their songs which mention Morea (Peloponessus), Anapuli (Nauplion), Korrona (Koroni) and so forth.
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Post by donnie on Feb 22, 2012 4:23:23 GMT -5
Hello friends, Does anyone have any information about the Kocaj (Kocovic) family of Klezna Ulqin? My grandfather told me that his ancestors migrated to Klezna Ulqin hundreds of years ago from a place with the name of Kocaj. There are only 2 that I have found; (1) From Bulqizë Koçaj, Dibër District. (2) From Koçaj (Baldushk), Tiranë District Thank you! How do you pronounce your surname, do you say Koçaj or Kocaj? The former is I believe a diminutive of Konstandin, and is mostly prevalent in Southern Albania, but apparently it also exists in the north, like the examples given by yourself above from Dibër and Tirana. If it is pronounced Kocaj, then there is also a surname Koci or Koca in Kosova, in the village of Polac not far away from my own homevillage. I always wondered about its origins, maybe there is a connection? As for the added -vic suffix, it was common policy back in Yugoslavia to alter Albanian names either completely, such as Kryeziu becoming Crnoglavic, or partially by adding suffixes, like your example from Kocaj to Kocovic. It was more commonplace or more lingering in Malësia and Ulqin. One guy I knew had the surname Gjonbalaj, he is from the village of Vuthaj near Gucia. Well half his family had the surname Djonbaljic, because the authorities had changed it. Some of his family, including himself, changed it back once they left Montenegro and moved to the West.
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Post by donnie on Feb 20, 2012 10:42:56 GMT -5
The case in the Czech Republic is due to the infusion of German blood
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Post by donnie on Feb 20, 2012 10:40:16 GMT -5
They mentioned precisely that in Fevziu's program as well. Many are simply to rooted in Greece to return; they have houses and property there, everything invested in that country. Given those premises it is difficult for the majority to return, and the stats up to Nov 2011 seem to confirm "only" 30,000 migrants returning. However many have also gone elsewhere, apparently even here in Sweden.
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Post by donnie on Feb 20, 2012 10:32:08 GMT -5
Slavs entered the Balkans ingloriously as the cattle of Avars. This is one of the few things I like about the Turks, they really know how to treat the Slavs. Same thing occured during the Ottoman occupation; the Slavs were reduced to little more than grazing sheep. Even today the Slavs, esp. from Ukraine, furnish Turkey with prostitutes.
One day hopefully we'll return to this natural state with Slavs and in particular Serbs living up to their names as slaves and serfs.
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Post by donnie on Feb 20, 2012 6:02:27 GMT -5
They have one guy online from Greece who says that the Albanians were among the first to be hit by the crisis, especially since many work in sectors such as construction which was immediately hit by the crisis. Consequently many find themselves jobless. In light of this, many have chosen to return to Albania but the numbers they weren't 100 per cent on, they speculated on some 30,000 migrants, which is still small compared to the overall figure.
This of course provides a challenge for our economy, the returning emigrants might either be a blessing or result in an increase in unemployed citizens. One of the guys. Adrian Civici, mentioned that deposits in Albania had increased by €100 million for a very short period (probably higher now) as a result of transfers of their savings due to mistrust in Greek banks. Hopefully the banks, with some encouragement from the gvmt, will use this newfound liquidity to ease credit so jobs can be created for these returning migrants who'll bring working experience from Greece. You gotta do the best out of the situation.
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Post by donnie on Feb 19, 2012 20:09:28 GMT -5
What are they saying? That Papadimo was buddies with Papandrieou? No I mentioned Papademos & friends, as in the interim government, not that he and Papandreou are friends. This show was made prior to him taking over gvmt. Never rely on google translate. They're speaking about the Greek sovereign debt crisis and its effect on our migrants over there, among the invited is the ethnic Greek Spiro Ksera.
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